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The Real World Discussion Thread

Moving operations from this thread.

Might as well copy-paste stuff from there.

It's come to my attention that there may need to be a hub for feedback and ideas sharing to improve our IRL profiles (especially the animal ones). In my experience, Deleted Username has made better judgements, so the thread Deleted Username and I will do activities here is going to be here to share ideas and feedback with other members looking to improve the real world pages.

Anyways, starting from me, the Lab Retriever is now 10-C to 10-B via our discourse in our PMs. Also, if it wasn't obvious by now, animals that aren't built for KE wouldn't have their KE as their main method of AP.

And real life vehicles' durability are scaled to the best attacks they can survive or withstand if information on the latter is possible. It's also stated by staff that it would be inaccurate to scale vehicles to their fragmentation energy. Someone needs to change some of the vehicles' durability.

Favorite animal: If we're talking by technicallity, it would be my mom since humans for some reason are scientifically considered animals. My favorite animal is the pigeon, they're so cute lol.
 
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bump.

My brother is here in my home city and I have to catch up on grades, so don't be too surprised if I'm not active on-forum as I'm used to for the next week. However, I do have important scaling stuff about the velociraptor if I have time to post it here.
 
You know, there is something that bothered me about our range statistics for real world animals. Why exactly did we use the animals' size when we should be using the lengths of either their limbs or their mouths where applicable?
 
Flashlight237 said:
You know, there is something that bothered me about our range statistics for real world animals. Why exactly did we use the animals' size when we should be using the lengths of either their limbs or their mouths where applicable?
Click to expand...
If you want to be in more attention to detail, then ok.

The lengths are at around the ranges stats.
 
I've been struggling to maintain support for maintaining a 10-B velociraptor. By example, it should be there by sheer raw power or breaching durability of an animal that can withstand a 10-B slashing attack similar to the velociraptor. And the latter even with following reasoning would just be as circular as circular reasoning.

We have context that shows that they can overpower prey lighter than itself by jumping on them and slash though their fleshy abodomen that can withstand slashes.
Even then, they're not very good feats at first glance. The second one could be argued through more piercing damage than sheer raw power.

Shouldn't they stay at 10-C, or 10-B? I felt like this example I've set years/months back has been too weird. And yes, I do acknowledge the existence of Giant Anteater claws since they're severe and used the Velociraptor's example of fighting Protoceratops. The problem is that it's likely that the bird took down the animal through intelligence and piercing attacks. I hope animals like the Cheetah don't get at least 10-A via piercing damage because of something outdated.

Btw, the protobird dino weighed 30 lb (13.61 kg) and had a length of 1.5 m.

[https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/velociraptor Velociraptor, facts and photos] ([https://archive.ph/gorNC Ar])
 
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I realized I made some goofs in my last reply since I was bull-rushing it lol. I'll race to the finish to fix them.
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
I realized I made some goofs in my last reply since I was bull-rushing it lol. I'll race to the finish to fix them.
Click to expand...
Done with the fixes (hopefully lol)
____

Also, I'm making this: "Standards for the Reliability, Trustworthiness and Evaluation of Sources for The Real World On-site" pretty close to finishing it too. Visual media as evidence shouldn't be immune to this, as there can be context disproving an image, video, etc. Feedback before presenting it to staff and stuff?
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Done with the fixes (hopefully lol)
____

Also, I'm making this: "Standards for the Reliability, Trustworthiness and Evaluation of Sources for The Real World On-site" pretty close to finishing it too. Visual media as evidence shouldn't be immune to this, as there can be context disproving an image, video, etc. Feedback before presenting it to staff and stuff?
Click to expand...
That is something that should be worth noting. It's a little difficult to gauge the reliability of, say, A-Z Animals for example. I bring A-Z Animals up because they do make a series of bold claims about their accuracy...: https://a-z-animals.com/about-us/

But the thing is where the HFIL are the citations in this page for example?: https://a-z-animals.com/animals/golden-eagle/
 
Flashlight237 said:
That is something that should be worth noting. It's a little difficult to gauge the reliability of, say, A-Z Animals for example. I bring A-Z Animals up because they do make a series of bold claims about their accuracy...: https://a-z-animals.com/about-us/

But the thing is where the HFIL are the citations in this page for example?: https://a-z-animals.com/animals/golden-eagle/
Click to expand...
As long as the source is as unbiased as possible and it involves credible experts in their field. If it's logically consistent, I don't see why not.

And the citations are below the "How aggressive are golden eagles?" answer.
 
And newsflash for anyone who's been living under a rock, the CRT for IRL animals is still going here. I've been a participant for several months or a year at least. I feel like I'm doing the heavy lifting in terms of work, though Deleted Username is also a major contributor indirectly.
 
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Newsflash guys, Deleted Username and I confirmed that a plan to downgrade the Velociraptor to 10-C will go. Though since piercing+stronger organism warrented the example of having a mildly higher AP like how the anteater is to the Jaguar, that may get removed. Though a somewhat decent argument can still be made by Deleted Username to remain at least 10-A via piercing claws due to the effectiveness of the Anteater's piercing claws.

And I've been going through the old threads about composite human a couple weeks back. I have the idea that although there shouldn't be profiles for this, it's suggested that a reference blog is possible to do do for IRL jobs. There are obious wiki and ethical implications to be considered. And while it's suggested that this can be allowed in 2019 by even staff back then, should such a blog really exist now? Is it more advantageous to have as a reference point or more liable to the wiki as a whole? Does a blog with this idea really exist on the internet or on-site?
 
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H3110l12345I20 said:
Newsflash guys, Deleted Username and I confirmed that a plan to downgrade the Velociraptor to 10-C will go. Though since piercing+stronger organism warrented the example of having a mildly higher AP like how the anteater is to the Jaguar, that may get removed. Though a somewhat decent argument can still be made by Deleted Username to remain at least 10-A via piercing claws due to the effectiveness of the Anteater's piercing claws.

And I've been going through the old threads about composite human a couple weeks back. I have the idea that although there shouldn't be profiles for this, it's suggested that a reference blog is possible to do do for IRL jobs. There are obious wiki and ethical implications to be considered. And while it's suggested that this can be allowed in 2019 by even staff back then, should such a blog really exist now? Is it more advantageous to have as a reference point or more liable to the wiki as a whole? Does a blog with this idea really exist on the internet or on-site?
Click to expand...
bump
 
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Flashlight237 said:
So apparently, chameleons can be really powerful. A 5-cm Rosette-nosed chameleon hit 14040 watts per kilogram: https://www.brown.edu/news/2016-01-04/chameleon

Though a similarly-sized lizard, the green anole, weighs 2-6 grams (https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Anolis_carolinensis/ ). Which... I dunno, even 20 joules is a pretty heavy hit for such a small creature.
Click to expand...
Really? I'm the creator of the chameleon profile, so I might have to make some adjustments. Thanks for the info
 
Flashlight237 said:
So apparently, chameleons can be really powerful. A 5-cm Rosette-nosed chameleon hit 14040 watts per kilogram: https://www.brown.edu/news/2016-01-04/chameleon

Though a similarly-sized lizard, the green anole, weighs 2-6 grams (https://animaldiversity.org/accounts/Anolis_carolinensis/ ). Which... I dunno, even 20 joules is a pretty heavy hit for such a small creature.
Click to expand...
To be fair, energy-measured calcs can be unreliable. At times they can end up with a fall from a few feet being more painful than a bullet.
 
Hortonhearsahoot said:
To be fair, energy-measured calcs can be unreliable. At times they can end up with a fall from a few feet being more painful than a bullet.
Click to expand...
Fall related calcs and certain bite calcs are unreliable, the fact that the tiering system at 10-C to 9-C is too oversimplified to handle stuff like this should be taken into account. Though some of the latter (like in the gray wolf's bite calc) and calcs for physical blows only like N*m, KE, etc are valid. I can find the scan from staff that states this is the case (KLOL506)

This case is really electricity that isn't measuring the physical blows of the animal. Though the scan also did state evidence for 20 ms and superhuman attack speed. "In automotive terms, the tongue could go from 0 to 60 miles per hour in a hundredth of a second, though it only needs about 20 milliseconds to snag a cricket." So if you can find the mass of the tongue or another reliable calc, then the energy can be quantified as long as it's still 10-C.
 
Flashlight237 said:
That's assuming it would throw its whole body weight at a bug at that rate. My estimate of 20 joules for the tongue is being extremely generous since they don't really bother figuring out the mass of certain animal body parts (and I highly doubt a tongue would weigh 1/4 of an animal either way).
Click to expand...
2 g chameleon is still a full chameleon though, same thing for 6 g.
 
You could try making a thylacine profile.

59c.gif
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
2 g chameleon is still a full chameleon though, same thing for 6 g.
Click to expand...
Did you not read? My estimate is based on assuming the tongue weighs as much as 1/4 of a chameleon (which, again, is being very generous). Maybe don't insist that chameleons throw their entire body weight around when they don't.
 
Flashlight237 said:
Did you not read? My estimate is based on assuming the tongue weighs as much as 1/4 of a chameleon (which, again, is being very generous). Maybe don't insist that chameleons throw their entire body weight around when they don't.
Click to expand...
Oh. I actually didn't read. I actually thought you assumed the throwing body weight assumption, but actions speak louder than words so I don't care if you believe me on how I got to my former assumption.

"A chameleon can capture and pull in prey weighing up to about half of its own body weight"

Maybe try looking up context first on the strength, evolutionary design and size of stuff like this before making assumptions like this? How would a chameleon overpower prey if their tongue weighs 1/4 of themsselves when their prey can be half their body weight? Plus, anyone on the internet can see that a chameleon's tongue is far smaller than it's body, 1/4 of body weight doesn't seem to have a refriential basis.
Flashlight237 said:
Best I can really find for their strength is they actually have a bite force quotient rating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bite_force_quotient
Click to expand...
Wikipedia has a high quality article on the animal here. And here it says "...A 2014 study compared the skull of a thylacine with that of modern dasyurids and an earlier thylacinid taxon Nimbacinus based on biomechanical analysis of their 3D skull models; the authors suggested that while Nimbacinus was suited to hunt large prey with a maximum muscle force of 651 N (66 kgf; 146 lbf) which are similar to that of large Tasmanian devils, the thylacine skull displayed a much higher stress in all areas compared to its relatives due to its longer snout"

The article stated in it's description section that it had a skull most resembling to that of a Red Fox too here: "Males weighed on average 19.7 kg (43 lb), and females on average weighed 13.7 kg (30 lb).[33] The skull is noted to be highly convergent on those of canids, most closely resembling that of the red fox.[35]"
 
H3110l12345I20 said:
Wikipedia has a high quality article on the animal here. And here it says "...A 2014 study compared the skull of a thylacine with that of modern dasyurids and an earlier thylacinid taxon Nimbacinus based on biomechanical analysis of their 3D skull models; the authors suggested that while Nimbacinus was suited to hunt large prey with a maximum muscle force of 651 N (66 kgf; 146 lbf) which are similar to that of large Tasmanian devils, the thylacine skull displayed a much higher stress in all areas compared to its relatives due to its longer snout"

The article stated in it's description section that it had a skull most resembling to that of a Red Fox too here: "Males weighed on average 19.7 kg (43 lb), and females on average weighed 13.7 kg (30 lb).[33] The skull is noted to be highly convergent on those of canids, most closely resembling that of the red fox.[35]"
Click to expand...
Really? Because I worked the Bite Force Quotient formula backwards for the thylacine and got a bite force of 546.9 newtons for a 16.7 kg thylacine.
 
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