- 2,042
- 476
- Thread starter
- #281
Just wanted to expand on my point that ‘everything ends’ was likely a prediction of the destruction of the game world, is all.I know that.
That's part of his motivation sure but I don't think this matters to this thread in any way?
The phone not working around gaster followers is something all 3 of them share, so if goner kid doesn't share this, it implies there isn't meant to be much of a connection between him and the gaster followers. Even then, it is still just speculation, as you said.He doesn't have all the traits but he has traits other Gaster followers have that regular monsters do not. You would need to look really deep into it to know that about the phone, and the fact that you can't use it with the followers doesn't tell us anything concrete about them as followers. Not saying Gaster by name is the point of his difference with the other followers; the fact that he may be saying something that could apply to Gaster w/o naming him directly. It is speculation, yes, and it coming from appearance and comparisons to similar characters makes it pretty straightforward on that.
It's ok if you don't buy him being a ghost, but that too is a pretty straightforward thing to say. There are things to back it up as he looks undead and seems to be able to disappear in a supernatural way, if he doesn't just walk away when we don't see him.
What he says being what he thinks is the standard thing to take from his word, that takes no speculation/0 speculation to interpret, so you can't say it doesn't have things to back it up.
Him disappearing in a supernatural way I don't think means much, it seems he disappears off screen so we don't know for sure how he did it, Sans is capable of disappearing/’taking shortcuts’ offscreen and he aint a ghost, for example. Goner Kid looking ‘undead’ doesn't really hold up either imo, theres nothing much to back up this statement other than 'he kinda looks like it'.
Im not sure if im wording this correctly, but as said above, the timelines you aren't in are stopped until frisk and the characters are ripped from the old timeline into the beginning of a new one. The characters being brought into the beginning of a new timeline would explain why they where capable of building all of this, considering, well, they are brought into the 'beginning of history', so to speak.That is the biggest point against your take, it's a logical issue that pops up pretty quickly when you think of the worldbuilding rules you went with (Well, you quoted someone else and I had to pick them up: )
- All timelines already exist in UT
- There are up to 100 of them
- LOADs and Resets change the characters from 1 timeline to another and they may end up in the same timeline more than once
- There is only 1 of every character
Meaning; Let's say all characters are in timeline 1, so timelines 2 up to 100 don't have anyone in them (They're wastelands). If someone creates a house in timeline 1, how does this house get made in timeline 2 (and the rest of the timelines)? If someone moves a chair in timeline 1, how does this chair move in timeline 2? And so on, living beings (and ghosts that exist in UT) interact and change the world around them all the time, and this power moves all characters from 1 timeline to another timeline that will somehow be the same at any time. This utterly doesn't make any sense, it's completely nonsensical.
Could there exist a verse with this rules? Sure thing, but look at the evidence that makes you reach this conclusion in UT's case;
- You only know about the fun values by editing the game, that doesn't count
- The most generous take on what Goner Kid said doesn't fully do it on its own, it would only mean "there may be another world"
Although, perhaps I could give another interpretation of 2-C to think of, if needed.
- All Timelines already exist in UT
- There is only 100 timelines (The FUN Values, the peculiar events that happen naturally without the influence of frisk or flowey)
- RESETs travel you to a new timeline (Resetting stops one timeline and starts a new one, although you can revisit an old timeline by starting it again)
- Versions of the characters exist in all of the timelines, which does not include frisk or flowey
Although if we take this interpretation of 2-C into consideration, I suppose this part of your problem applies.
I am rather confused on what you mean by 'as all characters would be pretty much talking to nothing and all of Frisk's actions would be done by nothing as they're not there'?, if frisk didn't exist in the timeline the characters would just do what they would normally do without a human around. For your second point, what says that frisk needs a player to control them? they are definitely capable of doing things independent from the player, flowey even alludes to this in his statement about the TRUE RESET.It makes no sense for there to be more than 1 timeline yet only 1 Frisk as all characters would be pretty much talking to nothing and all of Frisk's actions would be done by nothing as they're not there. If they all have a Frisk then they would all have a player, which they can't given what the player is, which there is only one. How does this fit with timelines stopping/ending? (ie why do we say there are many timelines existing when we're told those don't exist anymore.) Why do Chara and Asriel use "world" in conversations together but then one uses it as in "the timeline" and the other as in "the game", is the game not the multiverse? Since you didn't elaborate that whole part I don't get to know the mechanics you picked up aside from the nobility of claiming there is possibly a multiverse somehow.
- You know who I'm talking about, don't you?
- That's right.
- I'm talking about YOU.
- YOU still have the power to reset everything.
- Toriel, Sans, Asgore, Alphys, Papyrus, Undyne...
- If you so choose...
- Everyone will be ripped from this timeline...
- ... and sent back before all of this ever happened.
- Nobody will remember anything.
- You'll be able to do whatever you want.
- ...
- That power.
- I know that power.
- That's the power you were fighting to stop, wasn't it?
- The power that I wanted to use.
- But now, the idea of resetting everything...
- I...
- I don't think I could do it all again.
- Not after that.
- ...
- So, please.
- Just let them go.
- Let Frisk be happy.
- Let Frisk live their life.
Alright but consider the evidence all at once, instead of in a vacuum. Sans' statement supports the interpretation that Flowey's line was actually hinting multiple timelines at once.
- And then, at last, we have how Sans & Flowey refer to LOADs/Resets as "everyone being ripped from the timeline back in time with no memory", THAT leads to the idea of timelines existing with no one in them, but what they said is clearly poetic, all the living beings in the universe aren't being warped into another universe, it's just a dramatic way of saying "turning back time makes others don't remember their actions in the time that was turned back". I cannot understate how much this was blown out of proportion, are you able to see the immense leap in logic done for UT to be a multiverse by this worldbuilding rules?
“*Everyone will be ripped from this timeline...
*…and sent back before all of this ever happened.
*Nobody will remember anything.”
Both of these statements together support the interpretation that an old timeline stops and a new timeline begins, I explained this a bit in the OP, even.“our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum.
timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting…”
So there, 2 interpretations for 2-C of which are reasonable, I would think.
My point still stands that just because world is used in a certain context, doesn't mean its always used in that context. This could also be saying that flowey has done everything across these timelines (This is also backed up by sans statement, I believe, considering it is most likely that the anomaly is flowey and not the player)That is completely irrelevant to how they use 1 word every time they used that word. Edit: Also that was Asriel before inheriting Chara's views and evil desires for the world, before sharing their "In this world, it's kill or be killed" view on the world. So there is that.
That's because world and timeline are pretty synonymous, Flowey did all that in the same timeline being changed by himself. If they weren't synonymous, Asriel saying that he would nuke the timeline and take control of it should be him saying that he would nuke all timelines and take control of all timelines from Frisk, not just the timeline they're in. You're using the premise that the world is already a multiverse.
also I believe this was brung up earlier in the thread, it seems you haven't responded to this already so I suppose I can bring it up.
The thing is with asriels context of "world". Every other time asriel refers to world before hand hes talking about it in reference to the game. In floweys genocide dialogue he indirectly referrs to the world as the game
"I've done everything this world has to offer. I've read every book. I've burned every book. I've won every game. I've lost every game. I've appeased everyone. I've killed everyone. Sets of numbers... Lines of dialogue... I've seen them all."
The whole dialogue is a reflection of how he treats everything as a game that hes testing the limits of it and does use "world" to reflect that, and basically believes its a game of kill or be killed. Also photoshop flowey describes how hell "destroy" the world (game) by show everyone its meaning of kill or be killed tying in to what asriel said.
Idk about the hyper goner, kinda debateable. Im not sure how the hyper goner itself would take control from frisk though even if it killed them. It was literally just a powerful that attack that may or may not have sucked the timeline.
The thing about the true reset as well is that it literally has the exact same effect on the game as what chara does (minus chara taking control of frisks soul and all) and outright says that it erases our progress and sets it back to zero. And yet youre meaning to tell me its basically just a normal reset with memory erasure that has no effect on the other timelines youve created? Not only that but flowey right after his "timeline ripping" statement says that the reset outright erases everything. It sounds like hes trying to put it in nicer terms to me than actually describe whats going on.
Even then, I do feel chara was speaking about the game world in there conversation with the player. They destroyed the game files and originally it was seemingly meant for the game to destroy itself once chara attacked. And if we take the 'everything ends' statement by sans as a prediction of the future, it solidifies that chara destroyed all the timelines and thus would scale to the cosmology.
Last edited: