Nothing is only your argument and reasonings, there's no way to get an attention to make pages to finally ******* fixed, do you understand?
You literary can't withstand a message, who's pathetic now? A dude who can withstand a war or a dude who can't withstand just a 1 mouse roiling?
This ain't the CRT and might do this more controversial than this already is.
Can you show
Btw, now Azzy is capable of destroying timelines, so prob he should be immeasurable I guess.
I don't have much to work with for this paragraph since you didn't go into detail about "statements throughout the game". Think of it this way: When observing an Undertale playthrough in its entirety, there were different timelines at some points in existence, but in-continuity there were not multiple timelines in existence at the same time and there ended up being only one existing timeline for reasons that Eficiente's blog post explains well and for reasons I will explain in subsequent paragraphs.
Flowey saying "this timeline" referred to the timeline that existed at the moment when he said that. Since he is aware of the Save and Load functions, he knows that there are other potential timelines that can exist by doing different actions after turning back time, thus meaning he can refer to a single timeline as "this timeline". Those potential timelines didn't exist when he said "this timeline", meaning his statement doesn't contradict the conclusion in Eficiente's blog post.Roachman40 said:
A "timeline" in this sense is the sequence of events related to a subject that is being observed, with the subject in this case being the world of Undertale. There can be different sequences of events in the game Undertale especially clear depending on what route the player takes, but the actions can be undone without a trace. Sure there are many possible timelines, but some characters can control the existing timeline so that a timeline that could've continued ended up stopping for a different one's start. This means that all the possible alternate timelines don't exist at the same time, and plural grammar can be used by characters when referring to the timeline without contradicting the conclusion in Eficiente's blog post.Roachman40 said:
It's not wrong that Goner Kid could've been referring to alternate timelines, but it's unwise to treat that interpretation of his words as the one and only canon one, since Goner Kid is a very mysterious character that we know basically no definite information about. That interpretation signifies that fun values are canon despite both Goner Kid and fun values being mysterious, meanwhile there are other interpretations of Goner Kid's words that are simpler and less mysterious, which the VS Battles Wiki is better off using. Eficiente wasn't using headcanon, he was providing interpretations of a mysterious character that people weren't thinking of. The interpretations are all good possibilities.Roachman40 said:
This may be a good observation, but in the conversation where Alphys claimed that there exists alternate universes, her saying that was compared to her saying that anime is real. Although Alphys later revealed that she lied about anime being real to impress Undyne, Alphys not believing what she formerly claimed doesn’t change the fact that she has lied a lot, especially since she hasn’t only lied about anime. In fact, during that conversation with Undyne, she said that she has been lying about everything. It wasn't just about anime. This means Alphys probably also lied about there being alternate universes. She was likely referencing a work of fiction that a human wrote that has alternate universes involved.Roachman40 said:
I mean I do feel characters saying timelines in plural does matter, no? if other timelines dont exist at the same time I don't think sans would have noticed the other timelines in the first place, they would have to still exist for him to notice them.
What goner kid said referring to alternate timelines seems to be the most likely option, at least to me. The points that I saw eficiente bring up are ‘This is just a thought a kid has’, ‘maybe he’s already a ghost’, or ‘He could be referring to what's happening to Gaster’ which, the first two don't have much proof behind them, and the third I don't really agree with at all. he's grey like a gaster follower yea, but that's not really enough to show the connection (Something notable to bring up is when you try to use your phone in goner kids room, it works, but when you try to use your phone in the room with a gaster follower, you can't use it). The final point of ‘He could be referencing how sometimes a player may or may not see him with this much being canon and working like it really does’ is true but I don't really think it disproves my point.
When she said everything I took it as her lying about everything she had said to Undyne, or it being a hyperbolic way of saying she has lied about alot, but I do get your point. Even then I do believe it should be taken into consideration, especially considering the fact she thought to bring it up in the first place and said so in front of mettaton, who seems to know of her antics already.
I disagree immensely and your approach to the situation is toxic. There is no "high horse position" with pointing out in a debate how some participants may not have read or read well something, that is something anyone is free to do should they have reasons to believe that. I gave my reasons damn well yet both too much and too little of that are both seen as wrong, particularly too much as that's what this "high horse position" view really is, emotional instability upon persevering arrogance. That's not gatekeeping, that was a reply to a user who didn't know about one of the very first things my blog covered, it stands to reason that I want them to understand my blog well first given that this CRT has the premise of being a response to it, and then from knowing the information in my blog and arguing it we can have a debate. Those are the intentions anyone would assume from anybody in a position similar to mine saying the same, your assumed intentions I had were atrocious. "Acting like your blog is completely and objectively true" is a straw man, I never said that, and no wonder you make another atrocious interpretation on me with how negative you have me. Concluding based on what people say that they did not read my blog or that there are parts of it that they didn't understand well is clearly not the same as my blog being completely and objectively true, the evident conclusion from my words is that people should either read my blog first or ask for the parts they didn't understand, or anything that may be a reply to blog, I'm evidently not opposing a challenge to my blog because I'm failing to see it properly recognized, if at all (depending on the comment).
This has me saying a few things while at the same time giving insufficient information
There is no logical reason to feel that though, they have to say timelines in plural because there is such thing to talk about as timelines in plural, each of them existed until they didn't. You also don't cover how they stop/everything ends for those timelines. This are things covered in my blog but here is an illustrative drawing of the matter, which should inform nothing new; So again, it makes no sense to point of how they were talked about in plural, to give a silly example if the NASA somehow was super old and had records of many cube-shaped planets across history, and neither of them existed at the same time as they all got destroyed before another one was created, then it would make perfect sense to talk about them in plural in conversation. You have no evidence to say that Sans is referring to timelines as things that exist out there, and in fact this timelines stopping and everything ending for them fits to the idea that they don't keep on existing aside from the main timeline.
I think I already touched this before and I'm being redundant, but repeating to make things clear; you don't have any reasons against the logic in my takes on what Goner Kid said, but took more likely that he was talking about alt. timelines. That's "ok", that can be left as it is, but know that it's a point you make that doesn't have any weight because of it, and even IF that was the correct take it would still not mean that those timelines would be part of "Undertale" and nor that fun values have anything to do with it, it would simply mean that alt. universes exist and that would only be taken in the pretty big what-if that is interpreting that take of his dialogue as the correct one while dismissing the others takes.
Sans observed an anomaly that caused timelines to stop and start. The act of timelines stopping and starting must've been visible upon observing the anomaly. Sans likely has technology to make this easy to see, since his genius intelligence makes up for his lack of acausality.
To me and many others, Goner Kid could've been referring to your idea or any of Eficiente's ideas because there isn't a good way of definitively proving any of them. I haven't seen Frisk use their phone next to Goner Kid but if the phone works then good point. However, Goner Kid doesn't have to be a Gaster follower for his words to possibly be a reference to Gaster, especially if his words were a coincidence. It's not like Firsk can't use their phone next to other characters who have relevancy to Gaster but aren't Gaster followers. Lastly, the idea "He could be referencing how sometimes a player may or may not see him with this much being canon and working like it really does" in simpler terms meant that Goner Kid is always at his location but sometimes Frisk doesn't find him, and the game usually forces Frisk to not be able to find him because he can only be found if the player has a fun value that allows it. It disproves your point because fun values default to not being canon like I explained. Fun values being canon is just one interpretation out of many.Roachman40 said:
If I wasn't clear about this, I did find your point about Alphys the most reliable out of them all, since although Alphys lies a lot, she is still super smart and could've been trying to defend her dignity from Mettaton using true statements all of a sudden. It is possible that Mettaton was trying to make Alphys seem like she has less credentials than she really does for humorous purposes. What I wrote about factors that go against this idea are also good points though, so we can't claim "this is absolutely a clear canonical fact". I'm a fan of embracing "possibly" ranks, so you could try making the top tiers "Universe level+, possibly Low Multiverse level" based on this information if you really want to. Please make sure to write that the Low Multiverse level rank is only possibly the case. It's best that we don't treat this as objective established lore, since there are factors that can contradict the rank.Roachman40 said:
But Frisk doesn't time travel forward in any case, they only Reset the adventure or Load to a previous Save point. Sans was most likely just expressing the statement in a particular way without it having a deeper meaning. What deeper meaning would it have if it does, that's accurate to what we see in Undertale?
The ambiguity is a very important factor of this entire revision, on both sides of any of the arguments. There are no points that anyone is making that have something like it being straight-up said that the world of Undertale is a multiverse or that fun values make it so that alternate universes of different RNG outcomes exist, so any idea that anyone writes can be countered by giving attention to a mere possibility that goes against the idea, since the argument that was being countered in the first place is a mere possibility.RethPo said:
Not interested in debating here, just going to note on Chara's page it should be fixed from the above to the below due to some pesky grammar errors:
Grab in this "intent", decipher what it means with words unsaid and apply it mechanics no one said is the headcanon, it's not a headcanon to say that a sad character saying something sad maybe simply meant to say something sad.
He may be a different kind of dead (Based on how he looks) or something else we don't know that simply has the ability to disappear, if that's even canon.
He has visual similarities with those who do and the player has no way of knowing this, you are the one who said "Whether goner kid is actually aware of it or not, it still falls under intent". We don't know that those who follow Gaster or anyone have the same issue, just that they look weird and have unknown properties to them.
You just said that it was canon arbitrarily with no logic or valid reason behind it, my point still stands after all that.
Not that he won't be found, if he doesn't exist and things function without him then it doesn't matter if they found him or not because the point is that whether or not they found him he contributes on nothing it and he makes no difference on anything. This observation around that fact being the thing communicated in this take, and the supposed fact that players will find him not being related to it.
All of that is clearly a headcanon, you don't know that "his mechanics and statement is mostly intent", you made it up, you don't know that he's "upset about the concept of a world without them existing", you made up that being something that exists out there rather than what it is as a comment and you made up how he's upset about it rather than being the throw away comment it was. You made up the conection between his name and the mechanics of Undertale rather than it simply being how the kid may appear or be gone somewhere in the game and how he looks. You made up that "the files prove that each reset dictates his existence based on rng meaning those numbers are worlds where he doesnt exist" when those can be occasions where Frisk doesn't find him there at that time or he doesn't appear there by himself normally or by the mechanics of whatever being gray and odd grants him.
How many times are you gonna derail?
Focusing on unexpected "what if" occurrences that could happen in the future won't get this revision anywhere since we are in the present right now, but if that occurrence were to happen, then it would be good support to Undertale being a multiverse since it would add reliability to Alphys' statement, especially since I don't think Toby Fox would have a reason to be secretive in that case. I guess you could try asking him if you're desperate for this kind of evidence, but make sure to not pester him if he doesn't answer you since it's against the rules and it's impolite in general.
Twitter statements are generally unused, but that's derailing.
Yes, I know statements like that are of low priority when proving a characters capabilities. (I didn't specifically have Twitter in mind if that matters.)
I think something like that could be acceptable, but I'm not changing my mind about it only being a "possibly" rank in addition to the Low 2-C rank that was in place before this revision.StrymULTRA said:
We'd need to wait all the staff members first, as Eficiente alone can't change an agreement of over 4 staff lol.
