The Meta (Agent Maine) vs Master Chief

[GodTongue5280]

Also at that time when his suit ran out of power, he'd be rogue for like, years. We don't know how long it'd been since he last charged his suit. He later used it to avoid a chaingun and get the **** out of dodge, far enough that Washington couldn't track him down.

 

[Cronut]

We don't know how much power that suit had before, that's true, but remember that the more AI and equipment he has, the more power his armor needs. We don't know how much it took for him to take all the freelancer equipment and AIs, but what we know for sure is that during RvB: Reconstruction, he collected a lot of them in a short time. In the first episodes, he acquired Tex's camouflage, Wyoming's time distortion unit, Gamma, Tex herself and Omega. That's enough to make his armor power down very quickly.

We don't know how much his time distortion unit will hold on (but we know that it is short), but as shown in the series, the only times he used it was when he was about to get hit. That makes sense because the power comsuption is too much that he needed to retreat in order to recharge his armor. In this match-up, it is more likely that he will use it to dodge MC's heavy weapons and explosives, but as a last resort. About Washington not being able to track him down, that's not a problem for MC because of the motion tracker and Cortana.

If we are going with brute strength, then I agree, Maine is stronger (Class 100 lifting strength>Class 10+), but the Chief hits harder(Class MJ+ to GJ Striking Strength>Class MJ). Lifting strength is more situational compared to striking strength, but considering their personalities, they will engage in h2h combat and LS will be useful. The problem here is because we are using their 8-B versions, they will not be able to harm each other because they are physically weaker compared to their durability.

 

[Damage3245]

Gotta note, Washington had motion trackers too and it didn't help him much.

 

[Cronut]

Oh right, forgot that they were using the trackers. Still, the Chief has Cortana to track him down. Since they are fighting in the Mother or Invention, Cortana can access the entire facility and keep watch on Maine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Technically, both their profiles have some minor errors. Class-100 lifting strength may be what's displayed, but warthogs are only 3.25 tonnes; lifting them would actually be a Class-5 feat. However, throwing them is a different story, both characters have casually flipped over warthots so I think Class-10+ was the intended lifting strength.

As as for Master Chief, I'm working on a content revision board for his durability. I need to finish the calc for the crash landing feat first, but iirc, I heard is was calced to be around 903 kilograms of TNT/building level a while back. But I can't find a source, so I got an unfinished blog about it; I could use some help as far as ground hardness having effect on the landing impact. Additionally, the calc where someone has Chief's durability ranked as City Block Level+ is stated to be 5.38 tonnes; which would only be Large Building Level. It's also important to note that Mjolnier's shields only really protect him from projectiles and explosions; not melee attacks. So durability against melee attacks is still Room Level without any sort of power ups. Anyway, I make a content revision board on that as soon as that crash landing calc gets finished.

I'm still having my vote be inconclusive for now anyway.

 

[Cronut]

Actually, Maine's class 100 lifting strength comes from Tex's feat of lifting an entire crate that the Reds and Blues dropped on her in Season 8. The calc was aprox. 80 tons.

About MC's revision. I don't mind the changes if that were to happen.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Eclar Oh, nevermind the lifting strength revision, but the profile could have been more specific. Anyway, if they lift Scorpion tanks for example, that would indeed be Class-100. I suppose it's on Tex's profile then.

 

[Cronut]

Well, next to the Warthog feat's description there is a link in "comparable to Tex", that leads to the calc. Oh, and in Tex's profile it says that she lifted a Scorpion tank, but that link also leads to that 80 ton calc. The only thing I remember about she lifting one is in Season 10 (I believe it was episode 19), when two soldiers rammed her with a Scorpion and she lifted it. I don't know if that can be showed as evidence because she broke free of it when York disabled the ship's gravity.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

What's the general consensus, are the votes the same coz the grace period is almost up?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, I think it was already added to their profiles.

 

[Cronut]

I think so. @DarkDragonMedeus's vote didn't change, so it is:

MC-8

The Meta - 2

Inconclusive - 1

 

[Lunacorva]

Here's the thing that a lot of people here are discounting:

They're arguing The Meta's raw power and saying that MC's tactical ability and experience would allow him to overcome that. Which is true.


EXCEPT:


The Meta is not just a brute force enemy. Not only is he a highly trained elite soldier with years of experience working for Project Freelancer, but he has also been shown to be a highly intelligent tactician during his fights.

Not only that, but if this is peak Meta, he would also have the AI's, giving him the creativity of Sigma (An Evil Genius all by himself), the deception of Gamma, and the logic of Delta.

I think the Meta might actually have a tactical edge on Master Chief. Coupling that with all his abilities giving him more options to work with, and I would actually give it to the Meta here.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This thread was concluded a while back, but I agree. With further analysis, I think it was treated more as a popular contest rather than a debate; but that's off topic. You could perhaps request a VS thread removal and try again if the removal gets accepted.

Anyway, since this thread was concluded 2 and a half months ago; shouldn't this thread be closed?

 

[Lunacorva]

This thread was concluded a while back, but I agree. With further analysis, I think it was treated more as a popular contest rather than a debate; but that's off topic. You could perhaps request a VS thread removal and try again if the removal gets accepted.
Anyway, since this thread was concluded 2 and a half months ago; shouldn't this thread be closed?

Yeah, I was gonna ask, does this site permit VS Revisions if new information is presented?

 

[Cronut]

As far as I know, they dont make vs revisions. This thread was already concluded, but as @DarkMedeusDragon said, you can request the staff to remove the results, make a rematch and then post your reasons of why the Meta has the advantage over Chief. But take into account that if you make the vs thread, you cant vote, just post your reasons.

 

[DanFlsamual21]

I agree with getting this redone my friend believes it's ridiculous that Meta lost

 

[Firestorm808]

I agree with getting this redone. There needs to be some clarification on what the Peak Meta is.

By the way, if we use the Meta at his peak with all of the AI fragments, shouldn't they merge into original Alpha AI? Isn't that what Sigma wanted?

Battle Stats Based on Current Profiles:

AP:

CQB - Meta: Room level - MC: Wall - Small Building

Weapons: - Meta: Wall level with City Block level piercing power - MC: Street level to Small Building level with most weapons

Speed:

Physical - Equalized

Perception - About Equal with Full AI, MC if they are still fragments

Other - Meta: Time stop - MC: None

Lifting Strength: Meta: Class 100 - MC: Class 1 to Class 10+

Striking Strength: Meta: Small Building Class - MC: Small Building Class to Building Class

Durability: Meta: City Block level to City level with Domed Energy Shield - MC: Multi-City Block level with Armor Lockup to Small City level+ with Bubble Shield

Stamina: Meta: Superhuman - MC: Superhuman+

Range: About equal

Standard Equipment: Meta: M374 Hephaestus Combat Suit, Brute Shot, Battle Rifle, Magnum Pistol, all AIs and equipment - MC: MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor, MA5 assault rifle, M6 series pistol, M9 fragmentation grenades, Cortana AI

Intelligence: Meta: Highly skilled tactician, martial artist, and overall combatant, Full Alpha AI? - MC: Military tactician, SPARTAN training, Decades of experience, Cortana

Weaknesses: Meta: Power malfunctions, sociopath - MC: Energy shields recharge, armor lock


The fight looks pretty close to me.

 

[Lunacorva]

I would add to this:

It's been canonically stated that that the AI were NOT able to merge into the Alpha when they were all in The Meta's head (My guess is that they needed the original Alpha, or Epsilon as a base to do that). Still, they worked effectively as a collective, so he would likely get the benefit of their strategic ability.


Also, I would upgrade The Meta's weaponry AP to Small Building Class. Afterall, Red vs Blue has been shown multiple times to take place within the Halo Universe, so The Meta's weapons should be as powerful as they are in the Halo Universe.


Finally, him being a Sociopath isn't really a weakness. A sociopath is someone incapable of feeling empathy for others. Something that would actually be quite ADVANTAGEOUS in a Vs Battle.

Looking at their physical stats, I'd say their about equal (Though I would actually give The Meta higher stamina, given the amount of nominally injuries he's able to fight through with little sign of fatigue. (Getting shot by multiple machinegun rounds, and still able to use his time-stop to retreat, is shot in the throat repeatedly and keeps fighting, even without AI, gets stabbed THROUGH the chest and it doesn't even slow him down, walks through multiple shotgun rounds and then survives falling hundreds of metres into freezing cold water (Yes, he drowned, but the fall itself did not kill him). Also, The Meta can do more than just temporally stop or slow down time.

He can: Temporarily stop or slow time (Huge power drain), turn invisible, use a motion tracker (Which Washington said "No-one can get by that while it's active"), camoflage himself, and summon a domed energy shield. He definitely has access to a wide array of options and hax.

Still, I think MC could potentialy overcome those advantage, so the fight would come down to who is the more INTELLIGENT fighter.


Do we have any tactical feats from MC? Any cunning plans, moments of strategic insight or even brilliance? I have a few from The Meta.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, go ahead in post a VS thread removal request on this thread.