The long awaited and great Pokemon upgrades

[KobsterHope07]

Curious, for the Drifloon Calc, why is the High 7-C+ is being used despite that end not being chosen. Amelia didn't specified which one they prefer and the other two former calc group members had chosen method 1 with even the real cal howard agreeing with method 1.

Since this explosion looks was done on the ground, perhaps this can be redo with the ground explosion method

 

[Imaginym]

Alright then, how does this final version sound:

At least High 7-C, at most Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A

For the moment, this sounds good to me.

Curious, for the Drifloon Calc, why is the High 7-C+ is being used despite that end not being chosen. Amelia didn't specified which one they prefer and the other two former calc group members had chosen method 1 with even the real cal howard agreeing with method 1.

Since this explosion looks was done on the ground, perhaps this can be redo with the ground explosion method

I am curious about these matters, too, though, especially since Drifloon's Explosion Calc will be important to the scaling.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Curious, for the Drifloon Calc, why is the High 7-C+ is being used despite that end not being chosen. Amelia didn't specified which one they prefer and the other two former calc group members had chosen method 1 with even the real cal howard agreeing with method 1.

Since this explosion looks was done on the ground, perhaps this can be redo with the ground explosion method

Mmm... in other words, a recalc may be in order in any case.

 

[Arceus0x]

Curious, for the Drifloon Calc, why is the High 7-C+ is being used despite that end not being chosen. Amelia didn't specified which one they prefer and the other two former calc group members had chosen method 1 with even the real cal howard agreeing with method 1.

Since this explosion looks was done on the ground, perhaps this can be redo with the ground explosion method

because it barely left a dent on the ground despite the massive explosion dwarfing mountains, the explosion went into the air, thus being an airburst, we cannot use ground explosion method.

 

[Arceus0x]

I was wondering though, is it possible to get AP using air? If we calculate how much air was moved at 4km/s (one of the standard speeds) we could get similar results

 

[Psychomaster35]

When I recalced Drifloon’s explosion, I got around 304 kilotons as the result when I used the air formula

 

[Imaginym]

When I recalced Drifloon’s explosion, I got around 304 kilotons as the result when I used the air formula

So, about 4.76973684 times weaker than Rhyhorn's 1.45 Megaton feat?
Nonetheless, this would still be the closest to Rhyhorn's feat in yield.

Also, source? Did you make a Calculation Blog already?

 

[Arceus0x]

When I recalced Drifloon’s explosion, I got around 304 kilotons as the result when I used the air formula

air formula?

 

[Chariot190]

Drifloon happened like 1ft off the ground, it should be ground formula, air burst is simply not right, also, it should be scaled off the lake, not a tree or mountain (unless you find the actual mountain it's based on), that lake is based on a actual lake, it'd be far more accurate scaling off that.

 

[Arceus0x]

Drifloon happened like 1ft off the ground, it should be ground formula, air burst is simply not right, also, it should be scaled off the lake, not a tree or mountain (unless you find the actual mountain it's based on), that lake is based on a actual lake, it'd be far more accurate scaling off that.

idk if lake is viable. It's size varies between media. If we try to use the real lake we'll get results deep into High 7-A/6-C and mountains bigger than those on Mars

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah we had the lake issue with the galactic bomb feat, I don't see what's wrong with using the mountains really.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Also, source? Did you make a Calculation Blog already?

Here’s the draft

Link to image

Mountain: 70 px/609.6 meters

Explosion: 545 px/4746.17142857 meters (radius is 2373.08571428 meters)

Explosion: 545 px/4746.17142857 meters (radius is 2373.08571428 meters)
((2373.08571428/0.28)^3)/1000 is 0.60878813656 megatons/608.78813656 kilotons, or Large Town level+

Since this was non-nuclear, dividing the result by 2 gets 304.39406828 kilotons, which is just Large Town level

 

[Arceus0x]

image ain't workin mate. Good calc doe. Let's add it up and send it for acception and make it a priority 1

 

[Chariot190]

idk if lake is viable. It's size varies between media. If we try to use the real lake we'll get results deep into High 7-A/6-C and mountains bigger than those on Mars

If the result gets stupid high that just means it's an outlier lad, the lake is the only thing there with an actual size, calcing it off other things to get a preferred result isn't good practice.

And I'm more inclined to believe that the mountains were drawn inconsistently, not the extremely important lake that is also based on a actual lake that straight up exists.

 

[GyroNutz]

Said "actual lake that straight up exists" is connected to the lake in the manga via (admittedly detailed) fan speculation. Even then, it doesn't mean the two are 1:1 in terms of size - fully evolved Pokemon got downgraded from High 6-C a few years back largely because of this.

 

[Arceus0x]

If the result gets stupid high that just means it's an outlier lad, the lake is the only thing there with an actual size, calcing it off other things to get a preferred result isn't good practice.

And I'm more inclined to believe that the mountains were drawn inconsistently, not the extremely important lake that is also based on a actual lake that straight up exists.

adventures manga's lake is straight up smaller, like notably. Game lake is basically a puddle. Also, I am pretty sure it isn't actually one of the lakes unless im misremembering. This lake has no large island in the middle, it would have one if it was one of the lakes.
Ik this isn't the same manga but this is the usual interpretation for the lakes

 

[Chariot190]

Even then, it doesn't mean the two are 1:1 in terms of size - fully evolved Pokemon got downgraded from High 6-C a few years back largely because of this.

It unironically does, do you know how many calcs and shit we have that rely on Pokemon locales being equivalent to their real world counterpart? Enough for me to say that saying otherwise is extremely, extremely suspect and every other calc that uses the real equivalent for scaling or methodology is going to immediately be called into question. There's cherry picking here, it's all or none unless ample evidence suggests otherwise. And besides, it is the case, if we're not doing that may as well calc everything the way we see it on screen in game, even though that's really not the way to go about it, as I doubt anyone here would say and argue for like 3km Kanto, or something.

Game lake is basically a puddle.

That's entirely due to game limitations, it isn't a unique thing and definitely not an argument unless you think towns are mere feet wide, mountains are like 10-20m, and so on. We know for a fact the games aren't to scale, we're even told the sizes of things at points, that don't correlate to how big they appear, like Mt Chimney being over 500m tall, that one kalos route being a few kilometers, etc. Pokemon games aren't to scale is all, that's why in the games, it's that small.

This lake has no large island in the middle, it would have one if it was one of the lakes.

I mean, it IS one of the lakes, Hareta lives in the forest around it, and we see it again later when Cyrus goes to take Mesprit, no island that time either.

Though unfortunately, you and Gyro might be right, while your arguments for why it shouldn't count is definitely something I don't get behind, I skimmed through the manga in chapters where this locale and lake shows up, and I can confirm, it's small as ****, unfortunately this in turn means the explosion too, and the mountains around it, aren't exactly large either, the explosion is probably more 8-A+, maybe low 7-C based one how large that manga portrays that area in other shots.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

because it barely left a dent on the ground despite the massive explosion dwarfing mountains, the explosion went into the air, thus being an airburst, we cannot use ground explosion method.

? The ground explosion method still depends sorely on blast radius to work. The damage it left is inconsequential to this method, and the result is higher as the ground restricts the expansion of a blast.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Here’s the draft

Link to image

Mountain: 70 px/609.6 meters

Explosion: 545 px/4746.17142857 meters (radius is 2373.08571428 meters)

Explosion: 545 px/4746.17142857 meters (radius is 2373.08571428 meters)
((2373.08571428/0.28)^3)/1000 is 0.60878813656 megatons/608.78813656 kilotons, or Large Town level+

Since this was non-nuclear, dividing the result by 2 gets 304.39406828 kilotons, which is just Large Town level

Plugging that into the ground level formula.

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568) = 119.8 Megatons. 7-A, Mountain level.

Well, that's using 20 PSI, if we actually consider how little it destroyed, and do something like we did with the Undyne calc, we can use 5 PSI (0.344738 bars)

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568) = 40.5 Megatons (7-B, City level)

This seems very far from the air formula, can someone verify if I did everything right?

 

[Arceus0x]

Though unfortunately, you and Gyro might be right, while your arguments for why it shouldn't count is definitely something I don't get behind, I skimmed through the manga in chapters where this locale and lake shows up, and I can confirm, it's small as ****, unfortunately this in turn means the explosion too, and the mountains around it, aren't exactly large either, the explosion is probably more 8-A+, maybe low 7-C based one how large that manga portrays that area in other shots.

I'll check it later. Perspectives are weird and it doesn't automatically nullify everything. Trees support it, mountains support it. Just because a lake is small in one shot doesn't just magically ruin everything... Usually cause artists can't remember the basic size of things

 

[Chariot190]

I'll check it later. Perspectives are weird and it doesn't automatically nullify everything. Trees support it, mountains support it. Just because a lake is small in one shot doesn't just magically ruin everything... Usually cause artists can't remember the basic size of things

I checked a handful of shots, you can literally calc the lake off the characters, I also checked mountains too, they're kinda small actually, there's a bout 30 shots of Mt Coronet being barely mountain height, that might be bad given it's supposed to be large compared to other mountains.

One of a handful of examples.

This seems very far from the air formula, can someone verify if I did everything right?

That math ain't wrong if that's what ya asking.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Plugging that into the ground level formula.

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568) = 119.8 Megatons. 7-A, Mountain level.

Well, that's using 20 PSI, if we actually consider how little it destroyed, and do something like we did with the Undyne calc, we can use 5 PSI (0.344738 bars)

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)

= 40.5 Megatons (7-B, City level)

This seems very far from the air formula, can someone verify if I did everything right

If anyone is curious about Method 1.

20 PSI = 6.9 Megatons (7-B)

5 PSI = 2.32 Megatons (Low 7-B)


Method 1 could work here, if you think the pixelscaling is reasonable

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That math ain't wrong if that's what ya asking.

I see.

I think Method 1 Ground Level is reasonable then, as the mountains aren't portrayed as big as a real mountain.

 

[Arceus0x]

I checked a handful of shots, you can literally calc the lake off the characters, I also checked mountains too, they're kinda small actually, there's a bout 30 shots of Mt Coronet being barely mountain height, that might be bad given it's supposed to be large compared to other mountains.

One of a handful of examples.

That math ain't wrong if that's what ya asking.

The lake looks hella big, sadly unquantifiable.

I guess I'll suggest using the tree method used by Cal

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The lake looks hella big, sadly unquantifiable.

I guess I'll suggest using the tree method used by Cal

tree method ground explosion formula (5 PSI) seems to be the most accurate. Conveniently, it's the best result for this thread.

 

[Chariot190]

The lake looks hella big, sadly unquantifiable.

It's barely 20m dude, basic scaling off Cyrus would tell us that, even worse, perspective isn't an argument as the trees on the other side of the lake are perfectly scalable, and we can angsize the distance between Cyrus and the trees, get the distance between them, and as such, the width of the lake, the lake is tiny as ****.

 

[Arceus0x]

It's barely 20m dude, basic scaling off Cyrus would tell us that, even worse, perspective isn't an argument as the trees on the other side of the lake are perfectly scalable, and we can angsize the distance between Cyrus and the trees, get the distance between them, and as such, the width of the lake, the lake is tiny as ****.

Not really, Cyrus is standing on an elevation and we don't see the lake's edges.
It's not kilometers but it's definitely way above 20m

 

[Arceus0x]

Also what chapters are those, i wanna look

 

[Chariot190]

Not really, Cyrus is standing on an elevation and we don't see the lake's edges.

Uh, no he isn't, he's actually only like 1 or 2 feet above the water's level. He is literally just a few feet from the water's edge. Also as said, trees in the background 100% confirm it's not as large as you think it is, I will calc it right now, or show other examples, like it or not, it's tiny as ****.

It's not kilometers but it's definitely way above 20m

It might be 30m, but it's not at all tiny, unironically an actual puddle.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Plugging that into the ground level formula.

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568) = 119.8 Megatons. 7-A, Mountain level.

Well, that's using 20 PSI, if we actually consider how little it destroyed, and do something like we did with the Undyne calc, we can use 5 PSI (0.344738 bars)

W = 2373.08571428^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568) = 40.5 Megatons (7-B, City level)

This seems very far from the air formula, can someone verify if I did everything right?

Actually, it is

2373.08571428^3 * ((27136 * 1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 1074053.19 Tons or 1.07 Megatons for the 20psi

And

2373.08571428^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 123096.293 or 123.1 Kilotons for the 5 psi

You forgot the "^2" at the end of the formula

 

[Arceus0x]

Uh, no he isn't, he's actually only like 1 or 2 feet above the water's level. He is literally just a few feet from the water's edge. Also as said, trees in the background 100% confirm it's not as large as you think it is, I will calc it right now, or show other examples, like it or not, it's tiny as ****.



It might be 30m, but it's not at all tiny, unironically an actual puddle.

What are the damn chapters?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Actually, it is

2373.08571428^3 * ((27136 * 1.37895+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 1074053.19 Tons or 1.07 Megatons for the 20psi

And

2373.08571428^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 123096.293 or 123.1 Kilotons for the 5 psi

You forgot the "^2" at the end of the formula

Damn, my bad. This makes more sense than my results.

 

[Arceus0x]

Ugh this feat's gonna become crap-tier in a few minutes and all of this wouldn't have happened if we simply scaled lower end mons to baseline low 7-B

 

[Chariot190]

What are the damn chapters?

Beats me, as I said, I just skimmed it, vol 5 is one though, literal chapter 1 is another.


It really isn't that big.

Also, we can straight up calc the trees off Hareta or Piplup, we get direct side by side shots of them, so no need to guess.

And same goes for the mountains, we get about a few dozen shots of mt coronet,


I don't think I have to explain why Mt. Coronet, and by proxy, the other mountains, might not be that big either.

 

[Chariot190]

Ugh this feat's gonna become crap-tier in a few minutes and all of this wouldn't have happened if we simply scaled lower end mons to baseline low 7-B

Does that matter? Better to be accurate, and besides, Rhyhorn's feat isn't gonna vanish, it still exists, Drif won't make it go anywhere. Also lv5 Torrent Piplup has like a 8-A feat in the very first chapter that an Onix no sells so there's that too.

 

[Arceus0x]

Then bring that feat in. You keep mentioning feats but you show no scans or links.

Torrent Piplup has like a 8-A feat in the very first chapter that an Onix no sells so there's that too

 

[Chariot190]

Then bring that feat in. You keep mentioning feats but you show no scans or links.

????
It is LITERALLY in one of the scans I just showed. And "keep mentioning feats", I haven't, I mentioned one, Piplup's, that is unironically it. The rest is me arguing the feats in the OP, not me bringing up random new feats.

 

[Imaginym]

It should be that mentioned that often, sizes are misrepresented; Authors will often prioritize like characters being drawn large enough to show the amount of detail they want, rather than accurate sizes.
Ergo, Cyrus might look that big because if the artist drew him smaller, they wouldn't have been able to draw the details of him they wanted to, or to make him easily distinguishable.
& of course, how much bigger or smaller things should be with distance may not be entirely accurate.

 

[Arceus0x]

????
It is LITERALLY in one of the scans I just showed. And "keep mentioning feats", I haven't, I mentioned one, Piplup's, that is unironically it. The rest is me arguing the feats in the OP, not me bringing up random new feats.

Sorry, didn't realize you were talking about that one.
Also, that's like 8-C/8-B

 

[Chariot190]

Perhaps 8-B, I say 8-A though because given the lack of debris from the ground, it could very well be pulverization, and it is quite deep.
All the same, a Onix tanking it with zero damage is impressive given 4x weakness, and this Piplup has literally never been in a fight before, having only used like, one move before this point.