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The long awaited and great Pokemon upgrades

Honestly at this point, I'd say for the games, just use the shit it's based on, that's the intent anyway.

Other media that doesn't have blatantly and explicit size issues, calc how we see it.
 
it seems the balloon calc is becoming sus? Tbh i feel like we might as well use the tree method since it seems the safest. If anyone wants to scale the trees to Hareta then go ahead, it would definitely make the feat smaller but go ahead.
I just feel as though basing the entirety of the scaling on one weirdly drawn manga is wrong.
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Why do they scale above?
Click to expand...
it was explained in the replies surrounding it.
Either way it doesn't change much, at best we could upscale it to 50 megatons either way and that's nearly useless, don't bother yourself with that matter.
 
either way, what do yall think we do? Do we have any other feats? Any other methods?
Cause not gonna lie,
8-C, possibly Low 7-B looks ugly af and i don't wanna have that tier anywhere near pokemon
 
Chariot190 said:
It unironically does, do you know how many calcs and shit we have that rely on Pokemon locales being equivalent to their real world counterpart? Enough for me to say that saying otherwise is extremely, extremely suspect and every other calc that uses the real equivalent for scaling or methodology is going to immediately be called into question.
Click to expand...
1? There's one supporting calc we use that uses real-life scaling as far as I can tell, and that's Piloswine's earthquake. Like I said, there's literally been cases of calcs being rejected and tiers being changed based on this speculative real-life scaling being dodgy, which is largely why fully evolved Pokemon aren't High 6-C anymore. Where are you getting this idea from?
Arceus0x said:
Ugh this feat's gonna become crap-tier in a few minutes and all of this wouldn't have happened if we simply scaled lower end mons to baseline low 7-B
Click to expand...
It's better to get this cleared up rather than ignore it if this feat is apparently giving results between tier 8 and 7-B.
 
KobsterHope07 said:
Wasn’t it said somewhere that the explosion didn’t cause any significant damage and that we should use 5 psi instead of 20 psi
Click to expand...
It was said by me. There was a discussion in earlier threads that Pokémon Adventure, the manga this feats happens, tends to make pathetic craters to rather large explosions, even when performed by City level characters. This is a quirk from this series (it basically abuses the AoE fallacy), so I believe it was decided that the explosion should be prioritized.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
It was said by me. There was a discussion in earlier threads that Pokémon Adventure, the manga this feats happens, tends to make pathetic craters to rather large explosions, even when performed by City level characters.
Click to expand...
This isn't part of Pokemon Adventures/Special despite the name, it's a completely different manga by a different artist and author.
 
KobsterHope07 said:
Wasn’t it said somewhere that the explosion didn’t cause any significant damage and that we should use 5 psi instead of 20 psi
Click to expand...
there is a weird inconsistency with craters in the manga, making colossal destructive forces barely deal any damage. An example, in that same chapter, Deoxys' meteor fell which by its size would easily be low 7-C to 7-C and the explosion's size was also consistent...And yet it left a crater that's barely smaller than the meteor itself. Same goes here, the explosion was clearly massive and the exploding pokemon wasn't too far in the air, however there was a 9-B crater left on the ground and most of the energy seems to have gone up into the air.
 
I don't know lad, that kinda comes off as disingenuous, I get the AOE fallacy but you can't really use the AOE fallacy when it comes to actually CALCING the destruction of things, that only works when there's a prestablished calc they scale off to excuse why they don't blown things up, but you can't calc a 9-B crater like tier 6 because of that. And besides, it didn't even blow away the forest, and it most certainly engulfed some of it, it could just be the explosion had a low overpressure with a large AOE. And if you're arguing all the blast went up into the air, we wouldn't use groundburst, as groundburst is used when the blast hits the ground and the ground limits the expansion of the blast, if it all went into the air, the reason we'd use groundburst kinda ceases to be a thing.

Not that it quite matters, I might have to contest that anyway, the largest mountain in the region is consistently (and I mean that, in every shot of Mt. Coronet, while large, it isn't massive, I posted scans above where you can clearly make out Spear Pillar in every aerial view of the mountain), probably only barely 500m, treating the smaller mountains as 100m taller does seem a tad problematic, they're probably tall, but more around the 250-300m mark, not 600. So even in that case the scaling might be a tad overblown.
 
Chariot190 said:
I don't know lad, that kinda comes off as disingenuous, I get the AOE fallacy but you can't really use the AOE fallacy when it comes to actually CALCING the destruction of things, that only works when there's a prestablished calc they scale off to excuse why they don't blown things up, but you can't calc a 9-B crater like tier 6 because of that. And besides, it didn't even blow away the forest, and it most certainly engulfed some of it, it could just be the explosion had a low overpressure with a large AOE. And if you're arguing all the blast went up into the air, we wouldn't use groundburst, as groundburst is used when the blast hits the ground and the ground limits the expansion of the blast, if it all went into the air, the reason we'd use groundburst kinda ceases to be a thing.

Not that it quite matters, I might have to contest that anyway, the largest mountain in the region is consistently (and I mean that, in every shot of Mt. Coronet, while large, it isn't massive, I posted scans above where you can clearly make out Spear Pillar in every aerial view of the mountain), probably only barely 500m, treating the smaller mountains as 100m taller does seem a tad problematic, they're probably tall, but more around the 250-300m mark, not 600. So even in that case the scaling might be a tad overblown.
Click to expand...
then what do you suggest?
Because im suggesting that the energy was released into the air rather than below (nukes that are blown up in the sky leave craters that aren't exactly the right size either).
Because if you have feats, suggestions, anything, leave them here. Like you keep debunking this feat but what are the alternatives then?
Because we both know we can't have 8-A+ anymore and we both know 8-C, possibly Low 7-B doesn't look good at all.
An option could be just accepting Dawn's Piplup and Buneary as someone who is just a very powerful first stage pokemon and have the current 100lvl perfect IV/EV pokemon scale to like High 7-C. Another option is finding another feat.
 
If what you're actually arguing is that it all went into the air and not the ground, you're gonna need to use the airburst formula, as none of it is actually hitting the ground, or at least not enough to matter, aka it technically isn't groundburst despite it happening like one foot off it.

Like you keep debunking this feat but what are the alternatives then?
Click to expand...

Just use the Rhyhorn feat?

Because we both know we can't have 8-A+ anymore and we both know 8-C, possibly Low 7-B doesn't look good at all.
Click to expand...

I mean, it looking good doesn't matter, if it is, it is, but I'm not arguing for 8-C, I'm just saying this feat has some issues, do it right (it will be lower though, would still be 8-A to 7-C tho), or just say **** it, after all, this isn't even the important feat, the main feat is Rhyhorn.

Anime is wack, I ain't touching that, Buneary perhaps tho? I don't recall it ever being displayed as actually powerful unlike Ash's occasional outlier mon like Pikachu.
 
I think base mons who aren’t noted as super strong should downscale from rhyhorn. Rhyhorn wouldn’t be desribed as being strong, if it’s power is normal for its evolutionary stage.
 
StekFence said:
I think base mons who aren’t noted as super strong should downscale from rhyhorn. Rhyhorn wouldn’t be desribed as being strong, if it’s power is normal for its evolutionary stage.
Click to expand...
The plan is to have normally strong ones scale to 1 megaton and have the strong scale to 1.45
 
I believe @GyroNutz called this downscaling arbitrary. But I believe it makes sense.

Rhyhorn is strong, but not strong enough to just be a 2nd stage. It isn't, by any means, unbeatable by other first stages, so downscaling makes perfect sense to me.
 
If currently possible, summary of proposed values to scale to, basises & relevant calculations & yields, please?
 
Considering the Drifloon calc seems to have issues, the current suggestion is

At most Low 7-B | 7-B |
 
Imaginym said:
Basis(es), please?
Click to expand...
It's in the OP.

Low 7-B would scale directly to specifically powerful first stages and from there the other first stage pokemon would downscale to 1 megaton as it was discussed before, the basis being the fact that it would be unreasonable to assume that a pokemon who's just considered strong automatically scales to higher stages.

7-B was decided to scale directly to second stage pokemon because we use the standard of a perfect IV EV lvl 100 pokemon being used in matches which obviously surpasses an imperfectly trained lvl ~55 dragonair.
 
I mean I suggested the Drifloon calc because it was already close to the Rhyhorn feat. If it turns out to be Low 7-B then that's even more consistent, if it's far lower then the "At most Low 7-B" should work.
 
alright then, could you get some mods here? We need at least one more mod to approve to add this
 
Someone protested about the calc, but the destruction being ignored due to PIS usually constraining the craters created by explosions has been discussed and ultimately accepted in a past thread, the calc is also accepted, so we can likely proceed with the Low 7-B result for Drifloon's calc.

A thread shall be made to re-evaluate the way we treat the manga in particular if any disagreement is present. Either way, what's the scaling looking like?
 
Currently

At most Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A

With your proposal

Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A

so make y'all choices people, i wanna go dissect kirby lore already since hal pulled out another f-ed up story
 
Arceus0x said:
Currently

At most Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A

With your proposal

Low 7-B | 7-B | High 7-A

so make y'all choices people, i wanna go dissect kirby lore already since hal pulled out another f-ed up story
Click to expand...
I see. Low 7-B is solid enough with the accepted values, imo. We just going to need staff approval for this particular proposal.
 
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