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The Lich (Enter the Gungeon) vs Black Panther (Marvel Comics)

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Gargoyle One said:
He does yes
He leaves it on until the job is done afterwards however
Click to expand...
Cosmic Awareness + This.
 
And I was wrong as Wok stated

And past that you argued for incon since it wasn't passive but then switch to say "It was passive" to make it sound like a stomp?
 
ProfessorLord said:
And no, King of the Dead is a title, not an ability. His necromancy is not passive. If it was he would have no need to talk to the zombies and spirits, they should just obey him immediately. How would his ability to manipulate the dead always be active??? That doesn't make sense logically.
Click to expand...
"I reserve the right to kek at stuff that I deem kek-able."
 
Gargoyle One said:
And I was wrong as Wok stated
And past that you argued for incon since it wasn't passive but then switch to say "It was passive" to make it sound like a stomp?
Click to expand...
And now the character has changed. Cosmic Awareness has made it so Tchalla can instant-access Wakanda tech (your words) and still stomp.

Gargoyle. Tell me one possible outcome where Lich wins. Just one. Tell me when Lich wins against a guy who can see Kaliber fine, apparently get access to space-time tech, instant incap against undead, etc etc.

Tell me just one.
 
Professor tbf BP did nothing and the zombies were kneeling before him, once BP started talking then they started do what BP told them.
 
If BP messes up and doesn't KOTD before dying by normal means. His teleportation doesn't make him unkillable.
 
Lich's aim is beyond perfect - it's almost clairvoyant. He shoots Black Panther hundreds of times who finds himself struggling to dodge against his opponents super accuracy. His explosions and freezing ammunition can keep the king at bay, his portals can BFR him and his daggers if needs be, and his devolver makes him a much less menacing threat.

Unfortunately this will never happen.
 
Huesito88 said:
Professor tbf BP did nothing and the zombies were kneeling before him, once BP started talking then they started do what BP told them.
Click to expand...
The zombies still harassed him and practically told him to "**** off" until he gave them a rebuttal. Definitely not passive.
 
And now the character has changed. Cosmic Awareness has made it so Tchalla can instant-access Wakanda tech (your words) and still stomp.

Gargoyle. Tell me one possible outcome where Lich wins. Just one. Tell me when Lich wins against a guy who can see Kaliber fine, apparently get access to space-time tech, instant incap against undead, etc etc.

Tell me just one.

None of them really

Since that's completely okay for Lich since all of his wins are against people he cannot beat him, it is hypocritical to change it just because hes losing
 
Jamming the lich makes him like twice as strong tho
 
1. Lich's aim is not "beyond clairvoyant". It is literally spray and pray. His best option there is a relatively easy to dodge homing attack.

2. He doesn't have freezing ammo and explosion manipulation is not a counter to cosmic awareness and passive body puppetry over undead.

3. BFR brings enemies closer.

I know what I'm talking about whereas you have misunderstood every single point about the Lich.

The Lich has no win con here against a cosmically aware instant-undead-ruling panther. Prove me wrong.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
The Lich has no win con here against a cosmically aware instant-undead-ruling panther. Prove me wrong.
Click to expand...
All of his wins are like this
 
No, they aren't. Because Lich has almost no hax, and you people don't listen to me when I try to explain to you how this character works. The second you put Lich down in the game, you are at the beginning of the Gungeon (Kaliber keeps all people that enter within). And the Lich isn't because he cannot leave. A suitable stamina advantage and decent other abilities (I had real hope for Dante's Instinctive Reaction) would allow one to easily beat Lich just by dodging. Because that is legitimately a possibility, since his BFR is physical and only drags people closer to him into Bullet Hell.

Give me one win condition Garg. Just one. Anything.
 
Black panther getting shot too many times before activating KOTD. A wincon doesn't need to be likely, just possible at all. Shooting BP seems more likely than constantly dodging lich for a day.
 
Actually BP can't just go invisible what does the Lich have against that? or just teleport to him.
 
@Wok Except Lich can't due to range. If BP could Body Puppet a whole army of undead, he outranges Lich with it. So no, he can't just shoot.

Lich has nothing against invisibility but he can teleport. Not super important in this but still.
 
Shooting so many bullets that they're bound to hit even if invis/teleporting. It's not likely in the slightest, but it is possible.
 
@Wok Range.

Range is my point to you.
 
After an incredibly long talk in chat that actually turned out rather peaceful near the end, Bambu and I decided to just agree to disagree and move on with the match.
 
I think this match is one of the gray areas between stomp and not stomp, since BP has instant full control over Lich from a higher range, but since it needs to be activated I'm not sure if it's a stomp any more than a character with long range mindhax/BFR.

So I'm gonna say BP FRA and no stomp.

EDIT: Actually, how would BP's cosmic awareness let him get the right tech for a win? From the CRT the cosmic awareness only gives him a vague feeling that something's wrong, not the precise knowledge over the fact that someone's messing with time. And if time's rewound it'd likely be before BP activates the undead control.
 
When BP gets fully revised with the 650 issues Hues has left to read

I can guarantee he will be haxed to the point that this will be a stomp and BP could take on Kumagawa

Assuming he's still 8A of course
 
Make him fight the strongest ones for 8-A
 
(Reposting since I edited this in to my above post)

Actually, how would BP's cosmic awareness let him get the right tech for a win? From the CRT the cosmic awareness only gives him a vague feeling that something's wrong, not the precise knowledge over the fact that someone's messing with time. And if time's rewound it'd likely be before BP activates the undead control.
 
@Agnaa I... don't know.
 
As professorlord noted Bast is capable of letting him become more aware of knowledge that he possesses, and is more then capable of realizing that even if Kaliber isn't there, and BP is the type of person to bring literally anything and everything to the table if he feels like he needs them

BTW, His Cosmic Awareness honestly likely is infinitely better sobs it was granted to him by freaking Galactus
 
I mean

If Galactus gives you a nose ring it isn't infinitely better than another nose ring

Just means he is capable of giving it.
 
Uhh, would that be outside help? To get Bast to give him knowledge?

Also if you think it's infinitely better you should mention that on the CRT, because the only one that was accepted was a vague feeling that something's wrong on a cosmic scale.
 
Schnee One said:
Comparing a nose ring to cosmic awareness?
Click to expand...
That's the idea.

The source doesn't make it more potent. The potency makes it more potent.
 
Yeah but stuff like that is considered an integral automatic part of their character.

While going and asking some dude you know for advice is just outside help.
 
As is Bast

The Panther God is directly tied to that of the Black Panther

As I also realized that the part of BP being able to see his connection to Kaliber was actually changed from a part of his Cosmic Awareness to just ridiculously good extrasensory perception.
 
Simply being tied to another being doesn't make it not outside help.

Sorry to keep asking for threads but I really think asking a friend would fall under "outside help", could we have a quick Q&A thread about it?
 
It's perfectly fine I get why you want to be sure in a vs thread

That said asking your friend isn't outside help, look at Fi from Legend of Zelda

I'm also 99% sure I'm missing something since Proffessor Lord and Huesito know Panther far better then I do
 
Isn't Fi a piece of equipment?

Or am I thinking of another one
 
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