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The Lich (Enter the Gungeon) vs Black Panther (Marvel Comics)

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A fair amount of Prof's points would be valid (maybe?) if we allowed prep time. He can't rely on Wakanda's resources. That isn't a valid point. Moving on from that, however...

Additionally. If Tchalla's control over undead is so complete that it is passive, then yes, this is absolutely a stomp. Word for word here.

"A Stomp thread is when one character is immediately able to win against another, whether it is via battlefield removal, incapacitation or killing, with the opponent having no chance to retort with their own abilities or statistics."

This would fall under the Golden King area where Lich has no abilities that are passive to Tchalla's passvie auto-incap. If it works as you say, Gargoyle, then this is absolutely a stomp based on that alone and a mismatch to boot.
 
Actually he can rely on Wakandan resources normally as he's able to access them instantaneously and teleport

I also said that I myself gave the benefit of the doubt that he couldn't and by your logic would be incon

Also, GK still has 3 wins on his profile, so that is not the best example
 
Gargoyle. On the Stomp Thread page. not Golden King in general. Don't get mixed up. I won't speak for GK's wins, as I don't know the context of them- but the page literally states that, while both combatants have good abilities, if one's passive abilities (in this case, GK) roflstomp the other before they can do anything, that's a stomp.

This is a stomp.
 
Again, I have given you the benefit of the doubt that it would be inconclusive since I didn't take into account him being reset back.
 
No. You have changed how the power worked in order to avoid this being a stomp. Which is dishonest. Even after the power being brought up, you stated it would INSTANTLY work again.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Of course, in the game Tchalla would have to try to get through Bullet Hell to even fight Lich, and might not reach it since it TPs you back to whenever you reached the Gungeon (or whatever would be applicable in this case), but I'd be willing to bet it reaches Incon since neither can keep the other down conclusively for more than an hour.
Click to expand...
No, I never went against this as BPs range doesn't cover the gungeon and the Lich with King of the Dead, I simply said Kalibers time hax res wouldn't save him from King of the Dad, which it wouldn't IMO but I gave you the benefit of the doubt


Also claiming I "changed the powerset" and am being dishonest is not a good way to make someone take your point seriously. I get it, having characters lose isn't fun, and I would be a hypocrite if I said I haven't done that in the past, but there isn't a point to it
 
I'm not trying to prevent a character I like from losing, Gargoyle. I'm saying I'd rather not achieve the loss in a stomp. What you have described means Lich has no chance to act. Literally no chance. If I wanted to stomp them, I'd throw them against an unrestricted Flagg (though I have asked King if Flagg might be able to make a good match).

There is no benefit of the doubt. The power works one way or the other. Based on what you've said, it works in such a way that it makes this a stomp.
 
None of that counters what you just said though, I never went against that point

And actually being able to be killed but acting first is still less of a stomp then having no wincon at all which is literally every Lich match
 
If Black Panther's control over undead is passive, then I'd consider this a stomp.
 
It doesn't stop being sent to the beginning by Kaliber as I once thought
 
Wouldn't it get immediately passively reapplied after being sent back to the beginning?
 
Passively controlling all undead within range does, though. If he has the range to do it on armies, he can do it to the whole of the Gungeon since it isn't actually huge (the size of a large castle).
 
So Bambu do you think this is a stomp or an incon because you disagreed earlier
 
Earlier I didn't know it was a passiveloliownyouall.jpg ability.

This is a stomp, word for word.

Perhaps the nice fire lady would be better. Or a Low 7-C Marvel, since Lich isn't actually terribly below them (roughly 3x lower, not an AP stomp).
 
Gargoyle One said:
None of the Low 7C Marvel can beat his Resurrection
Click to expand...
Really? Damn.

Alright, let's try Litentric's.
 
So like why is Lich completely okay to just have wins against people who can't win against him at all yet passives are stomps apparently
 
Doesn't BP have to activate KOTD? I don't think its a thing he just leaves on.
 
What with that first activation being needed, it wouldn't count under the passive rules. You're allowed to turn on your passive then win by that, you just can't have already killed someone when the match starts due to a passive.
 
Wokistan said:
What with that first activation being needed, it wouldn't count under the passive rules. You're allowed to turn on your passive then win by that, you just can't have already killed someone when the match starts due to a passive.
Click to expand...
^^^^^
 
Wokistan said:
What with that first activation being needed, it wouldn't count under the passive rules. You're allowed to turn on your passive then win by that, you just can't have already killed someone when the match starts due to a passive.
Click to expand...
In that case it wouldn't be a stomp.
 
It's never stated actually, I think it's possible since all he did was as soon as the zombies noticed him they kneeled before him and knew he was the king of the dead.
 
The passive rules were for stuff like Nihilhus where matches were just "nihilus stands" because the opponent can do absolutely nothing. It's a stomp in the regular sense. Someone like Typhus the Traveller or Malok, Pride of Oryx can still win with their passives due to them taking time to spread and their opponents not starting out dead.
 
Wokistan said:
Doesn't BP have to activate KOTD? I don't think its a thing he just leaves on.
Click to expand...
...

Sigh

Okay so this isn't a stomp and I go back to my previous vote. Yes, it'd be affected by timehax. Of course it would be. And... to discuss the "Tchalla goes to Wakanda to get gear", I have one acronym- BFR. Lich just drags him back.
 
Once he activates its passive Bambu

It goes exactly like previous

And again due to it constantly being activated afterwards that was IMO an incap

And as I already stated BP can access resources from Wakanda at will
 
"Once he activates its passive Bambu"

And then time gets rewound.

Also this "get stuff from Wakanda in order to counter Kaliber" requires prior knowledge. Even after timehax, BP isn't Acausal. He won't know what just happened. It's an endless loop.

Incon.
 
Who says it requires prior knowledge? BP is more then capable of using his resources or intellect to be able to tell that there is outside help, plus, like Proffesor Lord mentioned, Bast can help him

Yet again, no he doesn't require it
 
Incon FRA.
 
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