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The Incredibles CRT: Small Town to Town AP and Durability and up to Sub-Relativistic Dash

KingCorporeal

KingCorporeal

28
2
A lot of the information in this CRT relies on this calc. Basically, Dash runs halfway around the globe in a matter of seconds. It's arguable that the feat should be taken with a pinch of salt since it comes from a commercial, but considering that it was created in-house by Pixar as a promotional event, it should be a fairly accurate representation of the character.

In addition, according to the same calculation, a head-on collision at Dash's highest velocity should result in a Small Town to Town level impact. This is on par with other higher-level characters in the verse, such as Mr. Incredible, Syndrome, and the Omnidroid models, which can strike at a similar potency via scaling to Hypershock, who can create Magnitude 6 earthquakes. Town-level abilities aren't out of the realm of possibility for this verse, and, if Dash has the justification to back it up, why should he be excluded?

It's also arguable that any collision at top speed would be lethal for Dash, but I believe that isn't the case. Dash has also shown in the past that he can withstand collisions while running at high speeds, such as when he ran into Violet's force field. Violet's force fields are implied to be more durable than Elastigirl's body, which can withstand the combined forces of three ballistic missiles, and Violet's fields themselves are strong enough to withstand the epicenter of a house-sized explosion and attacks from the strongest variant of the Omnidroid, which was able to best the previously mentioned Hypershock. So, if Dash was able to run into an object capable of withstanding attacks from Town Level aggressors and get off completely unharmed, then it's possible that he could have the durability to back up his potential AP.

Speaking of Violet, let's talk about her reaction time. Violet was able to activate a forcefield in response to He-Lectrix's electricity attack (which I could not find a good clip of, sorry), and the other members of the family should scale to this. Not sure what the actual number is, but it's much faster than Subsonic.

In conclusion, I think the following revisions should be made:
-Dash's speed should be upgraded to Sub-Relativistic, and his AP and Durability should be upgraded to Small Town/Town (depending on how you perceive the calc) due to his Great Wall feat, upgrading the character's tier to 7-C (just like dear old dad)
-Violet's forcefields should be upgraded to Town Level durability for withstanding hits from the Omnidroid 1.0
-All of the Incredibles' (except maybe Jack-Jack's) reaction time should be upgraded to an unspecified degree

Do you think that this is reasonable?
 
I disagree with this upgrade for the same reasons mentioned in the calc blog, which was rejected btw. The calc member group who actually evaluated this literally said this can't be used

Even if it could, 7-C seems very outlierish for Dash whose all other feats tops at 9-B at most. The rules about Kinetic Energy feats also mentions that they should be disregarded if they're inconsistent with their established AP or durability due to the formula inflating the results in high speeds
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
I disagree with this upgrade for the same reasons mentioned in the calc blog, which was rejected btw. The calc member group who actually evaluated this literally said this can't be used

Even if it could, 7-C seems very outlierish for Dash whose all other feats tops at 9-B at most. The rules about Kinetic Energy feats also mentions that they should be disregarded if they're inconsistent with their established AP or durability due to the formula inflating the results in high speeds
Click to expand...
The calc member said that I should make a CRT, and I did. Their main doubts were that the feat came from a TV spot (which I addressed), that the feat is inconsistent with the verse (which I addressed), and that they doubted Dash could survive his own impact (which I addressed). The only thing that still stands is that the feat could be considered an outlier, but this puts him on par with other Supers in his verse, like Mr. Incredible and Violet (at least when it comes to durability). If this feat backs that up, and it's reasonable to assume Violet and Dash are on a similar power, why should it be an outlier?

Also, with that last statement about the rules, is this what you're referring to: "Speed cannot be used to find KE when the calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series." I explained that Town Level feats are very much consistent with the rest of the cast. The higher tiers of the verse are about 7-C, and this is proof that Dash can punch in their same league.
 
Cropfist said:
It's consistent with downscaling from Mr. Incredible.
Click to expand...
Who shouldn't be scaling to Hypershock the way he is anyway because his rating is power-specific and not based purely in strength. His NSA file even reflects he's not nearly as durable and regards his "power" much higher than Mr. Incredible's.
 
Why are we using an internet commercial to scale Dash again?
The argument that this is an "in-house accurate representation of the character" is not a sound one.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Why are we using an internet commercial to scale Dash again?
The argument that this is an "in-house accurate representation of the character" is not a sound one.
Click to expand...
If it's a commercial, I disagree. But, Dash did outrun bullet fire in the Incredibles during the water running scene. Dunno if that's usable or not.
 
We shouldn't use a commercial for scaling.

Hypershock being able to create Magnitude 6 earthquakes should be environmental destruction and not scale to how hard he can punch things, everyone scaling to that should be downgraded.
 
KingCorporeal said:
Not sure about that first one, but if Violet is a lightning-dodger, then Mr. Incredible should be too.
Click to expand...
1000
 
Eficiente said:
We shouldn't use a commercial for scaling.

Hypershock being able to create Magnitude 6 earthquakes should be environmental destruction and not scale to how hard he can punch things, everyone scaling to that should be downgraded.
Click to expand...
Again, why? It was made by Pixar, as the watermark in the bottom right at the beginning stated.

Considering that the Omnidroid v0.4 could resist those earthquakes, the 0.9 should be much stronger than it, and Mr. Incredible tore the 0.9's head off, I'd argue that the scaling is somewhat valid, albeit shaky.
 
KingCorporeal said:
Considering that the Omnidroid v0.4 could resist those earthquakes, the 0.9 should be much stronger than it, and Mr. Incredible tore the 0.9's head off, I'd argue that the scaling is somewhat valid, albeit shaky.
Click to expand...
The Omnidroid wouldn't have to resist much because the seismic waves aren't implied to be concentrated, they'd expand, which is why they'd be compared to earthquakes.
 
Abstractions said:
The Omnidroid wouldn't have to resist much because the seismic waves aren't implied to be concentrated, they'd expand, which is why they'd be compared to earthquakes.
Click to expand...
I'd argue that Hypershock does have a method to concentrate his seismic force, otherwise he wouldn't have a reliable method of destroying the 0.3 to begin with.
 
KingCorporeal said:
I'd argue that Hypershock does have a method to concentrate his seismic force, otherwise he wouldn't have a reliable method of destroying the 0.3 to begin with.
Click to expand...
I mean, we don't know that, we just know he had unique hammers that helped amplify his power, we don't see how they applied their powers to handle the Omnidroids beforehand and can only use guesswork. Downburst was able to reshape matter and he beat then lost to one, Macroburst only generated high winds and defeated one; we can't assume all of these Omnidroids were as durable as we think.
 
Abstractions said:
I mean, we don't know that, we just know he had unique hammers that helped amplify his power, we don't see how they applied their powers to handle the Omnidroids beforehand and can only use guesswork. Downburst was able to reshape matter and he beat then lost to one, Macroburst only generated high winds and defeated one; we can't assume all of these Omnidroids were as durable as we think.
Click to expand...
Both of those Omnidroids were weaker than the one Hypershock took down, and both of those powers could be useful in fighting robots. Downburst could manipulate the metal on an Omnidroid into something significantly weaker or more immobile, and Macroburst could've penetrated one with a pressure burst. (His power is literally described as "high-density force projection," which sounds pretty handy in a fight to me.) In comparison, Hypershock doesn't really have a surefire method to take down a droid if all of his destructive potential is solely environmental unless we assume that he can concentrate his seismic power into single, condensed strikes.
 
In his file it says (fist maximum - 6.0 richter scale)

What does fist means here, also the fact he amplifies his sesmic waves with hammers implies he can generate this energy with physical strikes.
 
KingCorporeal said:
Again, why? It was made by Pixar, as the watermark in the bottom right at the beginning stated.
Click to expand...
Well, common sense. It's not canon, it's standard to assume they exaggerated his powers to hype things up and even goes against showings in the movies, which I feel bad to have to bring up as a point. When you follow the canon of something you don't go and watch promotional stuff.

Why would it not be made by Pixar? You are giving it a way higher meaning to that than how much it matters on its own.
 
Aside from the fact that using a commercial as a way to upgrade a character is at best questionable, you can't randomly calculate the KE of a speed calc to apply it for AP, it needs to be at least implied that a certain level of strength is correlated to how fast they are moving.
 
Eficiente said:
Well, common sense. It's not canon, it's standard to assume they exaggerated his powers to hype things up and even goes against showings in the movies, which I feel bad to have to bring up as a point. When you follow the canon of something you don't go and watch promotional stuff.

Why would it not be made by Pixar? You are giving it a way higher meaning to that than how much it matters on its own.
Click to expand...
How do we know it isn't canon? And how would exaggerating his powers in this context "hype things up?" They could've just as easily had him run somewhere much closer, like the Statue of Liberty, if they wanted to define his powers more clearly, but they specifically made him run to the opposite side of the world. This is why I bring up the Pixar thing so much: if they didn't think that this was something that he could do, they wouldn't have greenlit it.
 
KingCorporeal said:
In comparison, Hypershock doesn't really have a surefire method to take down a droid if all of his destructive potential is solely environmental unless we assume that he can concentrate his seismic power into single, condensed strikes.
Click to expand...
It doesn't have to be a black and white thing, especially with how vague this is. He could have some control over his earthquakes while not having to always make use of his full destructive capacity to attack, let alone have the same durability.
KingCorporeal said:
How do we know it isn't canon? And how would exaggerating his powers in this context "hype things up?" They could've just as easily had him run somewhere much closer, like the Statue of Liberty, if they wanted to define his powers more clearly, but they specifically made him run to the opposite side of the world. This is why I bring up the Pixar thing so much: if they didn't think that this was something that he could do, they wouldn't have greenlit it.
Click to expand...
This seems impossible to continue, I take my contributions here as done.
 
ZoroNotZolo said:
If it's a commercial, I disagree. But, Dash did outrun bullet fire in the Incredibles during the water running scene. Dunno if that's usable or not.
Click to expand...
From here:

AK-47 Rifle: 715 m/s
Barrett M82: 853 m/s
Browning M2 Machine Gun: 890 to 1219 m/s
M16 Rifle: 960 m/s
M4 Carbine Rifle: 910 m/s

If he did outrun the actual bullet, then he'd be at least Supersonic. Still an upgrade, but not nearly as much as if the Great Wall thing gets accepted (which it likely won't.)
 
Newendigo said:
Aside from the fact that using a commercial as a way to upgrade a character is at best questionable, you can't randomly calculate the KE of a speed calc to apply it for AP, it needs to be at least implied that a certain level of strength is correlated to how fast they are moving.
Click to expand...
Also, is worth pointing out that Dash got knocked by a normal guy, which goes against the idea of him having such a massive durability.

He also had to consistently avoid gun fire, blades and small explosions through out many scenes in the film. If you want to argue about "pixar's accurate representation" then you must consider that perhaps Pixar's representation of dash is him having a durability vastly lower than you think.
 
I don't think we should us this. Not only is it from a commercial rather than a in-universe source but trying to scale a hypothetical KE to Dash's AP is why the KE rules were made in the first place.
 
We could still theoretically upgrade his speed if we can use him dodging the bullet fire from the ship things when he was running on the water. Not saying that should be used for KE and AP, though.
 
Newendigo said:
Also, is worth pointing out that Dash got knocked by a normal guy, which goes against the idea of him having such a massive durability.

He also had to consistently avoid gun fire, blades and small explosions through out many scenes in the film. If you want to argue about "pixar's accurate representation" then you must consider that perhaps Pixar's representation of dash is him having a durability vastly lower than you think.
Click to expand...
Sure, he got knocked back, but not knocked out. He does weigh only 60 pounds, I'd assume it'd be pretty easy to knock something that weight around. Dash seemed relatively unphased by it afterward anyway.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. He still avoided the attacks (why would he just stand there and take it, even if he has high durability? Getting hit is still worse than not getting hit, no matter how small), and he never takes any significant damage throughout the movie (never knocked out or visibly bleeding or anything.) We have nothing else to go off of except scaling to his own speed, which is reliable because of when he ran into the forcefield without taking any significant damage.
 
Thelastmlg said:
In his file it says (fist maximum - 6.0 richter scale)

What does fist means here, also the fact he amplifies his sesmic waves with hammers implies he can generate this energy with physical strikes.
Click to expand...
Simply put it probably means that it's contact based, it also mentions how he has trouble with non-solids, I don't know what would be stopping him if it was strength based.

The hammers are regarded as amplifiers so they are special in some way, why else would they be labelled in such a manner?

If this was done purely through physical strikes, Mr. Incredible would be generating earthquakes as well, but he doesn't, his "power" is considered weaker by the NSA but his strength and durability higher, vs. Hypershock who has significantly lower durability by the NSA ratings.
 
Yeah, I am not comfortable using a commercial for scaling given the general practices for other verses. Otherwise, Gilad summarized it quite well for me.
 
KingCorporeal said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. He still avoided the attacks (why would he just stand there and take it, even if he has high durability? Getting hit is still worse than not getting hit, no matter how small), and he never takes any significant damage throughout the movie (never knocked out or visibly bleeding or anything.) We have nothing else to go off of except scaling to his own speed, which is reliable because of when he ran into the forcefield without taking any significant damage.
Click to expand...
Because you using the "pixar made it, therefor is an accurate representation of the character" to push for a comercial.

When in the very movie, the one pixar animated oc, Dash consistently had to avoid damage by way lesser things, implying that he is not that strong when it comes to durability by pixar own accord.

If we assumed he was actually Tier 7 physically then it would go against the internal logic of the film and lot of scenes wouldn't make sense.
 
I'm honestly against the Hypershock scaling like the others. As for lightning timing, I'm not aware of any feats like that in the movie but they can probably be calculated if they exist.
 
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