The Gamer upgrades re-made.

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I waited a few weeks with this, but I think we have enough to make the changes. Again.


There was quiet the discussion about scaling Han and Sun to Dan-Ul guild and their multiplier, but it matters not now, because we got a new calc putting one of The President's members at High 7-C (150 kilotons).

Sure, the multiplier itself gives 515 kilotons, but with a statement of them being able to beat a normal artificial god (Who create city sized dimensions) and a feat from someone arguably weaker than them being extremely close, there should not be much of a problem with the multiplier.


There is also now a statement about a normal gods "divine figure" (Not sure if it means their body, or simply the incarnation of people's beliefs into a form [like normal gods] but does it matter?) being able to wipe out Korea by creating an explosion sun, and being able to wipe out one of the ten great guilds with 0.01% of their power. The latter is impressive because the tougher people in there are stated to need nukes that can go up to 80 kilotons in power, but are at least 5 kilotons (Which leads to an at least 50000 kiloton goddess, which is 7-B... like Arc Company. And when I calced how much power would be needed to empower all his followers it also came out at 7-B... What is this consistency?).


Still, let's get to the changes that come here:

Dancer of The Storm
Firstly, the one who has the High 7-C feat get's a profile.

Dancer of The Storm

== Summary ====Powers and Stats== Tier: 7-C, High 7-C with "Dance of the Disaster", likely 7-B Environmental Destruction Name: Dancer of the Storm Origin: The Gamer Gender: Male Age: Unknown, likely much older than he looks Classification: Magician, Member of The Company Powers and Abilities: Genius Intelligence, Magic, Air Manipulation, Weather Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Energy Manipulation (Most magic requires the usage and manipulation of mental energy, most often called mana), Pocket Reality Manipulation, Longevity, Flight, likely Forcefield Creation (The most basic of protection spells, as an S class Magician, he should be able to use it with extreme ease) Attack Potency: Town level (As an S rank, he is comparable to Lolikiano Mistream), Large Town level with "The Dance of the Disaster", likely City level Environmental Destruction (The dance is claimed to be able to destroy entire cities) Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ Lifting Strength: Unknow, his winds can blow back characters with Class K lifting strength. Striking Strength: Unknow Durability: Unknow, likely Town level with barriers (Han believed a scud missile was needed to kill them) Stamina: Extremely High (Could pour enough mana into the dance of the disaster that it kept going for several minutes after his death without being even slightly winded) Range: At least dozens of meters with winds and tornadoes, at least two kilometers with weather manipulation. Standard Equipment: None notable Intelligence: Genius (The amount of mana has depends on their raw knowledge), tough he can be somewhat short sighted (Forgot about the metal pin on his tie while fighting against someone that can control metal) Weaknesses: Can run out of mana, making casting magic for at least a few hours. Needs incantations, and to seemingly touch his shoulder, for more complicated spells. Notable Attacks/Techniques: Dance of Disaster: Summons a tornado storm that can rip apart entire cities. The tornadoes can be moved wherever he wants them to be, and could damage 7-C characters like himself. "Dance, wind dragon! Sing, tornado!": Creates several Tornadoes around someone, which then close in and rip them apart. Whirlpool: Creates a whirlpool around the user, deflecting attacks. Waterspout: Creates a whirlpool around the enemy, ripping them apart. Others Notable Victories: Notable Losses: Inconclusive Matches:

Sun-Il:
Tier: Currently would be Likely High 7-C (Scales to the damcer of the storm), possibly High 7-C+ (Should be comparable to members of the Dan-Ul guild, some of which are 108 times stronger than Lolikiano [515 kilotons])

• Regenerationn (low-godly, his immortality is extraordinary amongst others, and even those ones need to have their soul destroyed to be truly killed. His soul is bound to the sword of Dan and it will cinstantly regenerate him).
• Immortality type 1, 2, 3 and 8 (Depends on Korea and it's people)

• Resistance to Soul Destruction (At difference of most immortals, neither he nor his soul can be dissipated, destroyed or otherwise killed

• stat-amp (Knowledge-wagon stated that he kept getting perpetually stronger)

• Resistance to BFR (cannot be taken outside of korea unless he wants it)

• Teleportation and/or portal creation (can apear anywhere within korea, and could even make his sword pass through a barrier to hit an enemy directly

Golems

Golems

Summary Golems created and given a soul by Han Jee-Ha, they are summoned during battle and left to train otherwise. Powers and Stats Tier: Low 7-C | 7-C | At least 8-A | At least 7-C, possibly High 7-C Name: Varies Origin: The Gamer Gender: Unknown Age: Likely a few months (trained for an unknown amount of time in a time-dilated dungeon created by Han Jee-Han) Classification: Golem, Artificial Spirit Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, can make weapons out of it's body, Elemental Intangibility, Accelerated Development, Transformation, Size Manipulation and Body Control, Magic, Flight and Teleportation Nullification, They are Immune to physical and non-magical weapons, Regenerationn (have a small magic core in them that needs to b e destroyed to kill them), Resistance to Magic, flame and lightning based attacks and possibly Mind and Empathic manipulation, can grant mana Regenerationn, healing golems can grant HP Regenerationn (likely low-mid) | All previous with the exeption of health and mana Regenerationn, act as cameras that constantly send what the see to Han Jee-Han, Flight, Immunity to Soul Manipulation (Soulless) | All abilities from the first key, Large Size type 1, Resistance to Magic and physical attacks (Could swat away 7-C blades that cut on a cellural level without any damage), Immunity to Soul Manipulation Attack Potency: Small Town level (They are comparable in power to Han Jee-Ha) | Town level (Han believed it could defeat a level 150 boss monster) | Multi-City Block level (Comparable to Han Jee-Ha post-lolikiano raining) | At least Town level, possibly Large Town level (Should be comparable to the Dancer of The Storm) Speed: Transonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic+ | Massively Hypersonic+ Lifting Strength: Likely Class 5 (Comparable to a Legion Zombie), possibly Class K | Likely Class K (Likely compatable to Dragoniak) | Unknown | Likely Class G (Should be comparable to the Golems used by The President Striking Strength: Small Town Class | Town Class | Multi-City Block class (Comparable to Han Jee-Ha post-lolikiano raining) | At least Town class, possibly Large Town class Durability: Small Town level | Town level | Multi-City Block level (Comparable to Han Jee-Ha post-lolikiano raining) | At least Town level, likely Large Town level (Han considered it's defense insasnely high) Stamina: Extremely high (Never stop fighting enemies and monsters), likely limitless (perpetually fight, they likely have stamina Regenerationn comparable to Ha) Range: Varies from extended melee range to several dozens of meters depending on their size Standard Equipment: None notable Intelligence: Unknown (They have good hand-to-hand combat skills and their accelerated development can affects their intelligence. They have not shown any particular feats however), Possibly Gifted (They have at least 100 Int points) Weaknesses: Creating a Anti-Magic barrier makes them unable to fight. Their magic negation doesn't work on enemies stronger than themselves, they have orders to only knock-out enemies so that their powers can be removed later on. Gaia lifts Gamer's Mind while fighting her other champions. Notable Attacks/Techniques: Transformation, Size Manipulation and Body Control: They can control their bodies, elongate their arms, take other shapes and reattach broken off parts of their bodies. They use this to use some of their abilities: Small magic disarming bullets gives the ability to unleash what seem to be semi-automatic rubber bullets, capable of disarming mana (or spells). Essentially, when struck, the afflicted takes physical damage as well as damage to their mana, limiting the mana they can use, and disrupting any magical connections they might have. Being hit by one doesn't do too much. But being hit by hundreds severely hampers those that are struck. With Golem Booster mode Jee-Han can provide a 100% skill enhancement to his golems for two minutes, once a day. During this time, the golems become much stronger and faster than before, capable of making more complex maneuvers, and even seeming to have some proficiency in martial arts. Anti-magic barrier: While the barrier is up, teleportation is nullified for the enemy, while flight is nullified for both parties. Allies perception of time increases, while that of the opponent decreases. Jee-Han's abilities grow stronger, while those of the opponent become weaker. Possibly Gamer's Mind: Immunity to mind altering effects (comparable to Ha, who resisted Yoohwa's mind control). Possibly Gamer's Body: Damage taken will be registered as HP loss instead of physical damage. Allows mana and physical Regenerationn (the speed of the Regenerationn scales to INT and STR stats). Key: Normal golems | Healing golems | Flying Combat Golem | Giant Golem Others Notable Victories: Notable Losses: Inconclusive Matches:

Han Jee-Han:
-Better creation (Can create thousands of flying combat golems, a giant golem, anti-magic balls, and spatial manipulating balls that create a void that sucks everything within a spatial dimension into it destroying the dimension.)

Spatial Manipulation and Blackhole Creation (While not an actual blackhole, he can create bullets that break space to teh point that they create a void that destroys spatial dimensions by sucking them into itself, so close enough) Scales to "Likely High 7-C, possibly High 7-C+".


Truth-Wagon profile

Truth Wagon

Powers and Stats Tier: At least 7-C Name: Unknown, self named as Truth Wagon. Origin: The Gamer Gender: None Age: 12 physically, unknown mentally Classification: puppet, immortal, sorcerer Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Energy Manipulation, Magic, Telekinesis over his weapons and creation of them, Immortality type 1, possibly 2, likely 3 ("normal" immortality is described to be possible to bypass with soul destruction, which implies that the destruction of the body wouldn't work), likely Regenerationn (to an unknown extent, his body is merely a puppet made out of mana), Spatial Manipulation and Forcefield Creation through it (Can create a forcefield around himself that "bends" any attack away from him, even such things as portals that would go inside it or vodoo magic. Can cut space itself to bypass the durability of enemies), Void Manipulation (Controls the void that absorbs spatial dimensions when they are destroyed), Resistance to Void Manipulation (His control over the void allows him to be unaffected by it's erasure and it's pull) Attack Potency: At least "Town level" (Comparable to Han Jee-Ha), can ignore durability with Spatial Manipulation (can cut through space, forcefully cutting anything in half regardless of it's strength) and cellular cutting with blades. Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic+(His dexterity stat makes him comparable to Kwon Shi-Yu) Lifting Strength: At least Class K Striking Strength: At least Small Town Class Durability: At least Small Town class, higher with mana shields, spatial manipulation and immortality make him hard to kill Stamina: Extremely high (believed to be able to keep up a fight for 24 hours) Range: Tens of meters Standard Equipment: Weapons that I don't know the name of. Intelligence: Gifted (Can use at least 400 points of INT, which makes him a better calculator than a quantum computer and has thousands of times better memory than average humans) Weaknesses: Likes to analyse things he doesn't know, tends to explain his powers to other less experienced sorcerers as their "senior". A much stronger spatial manipulation can break through his spatial brrier, but this almost certanly creates a "void" that absorbs spatial dimensions. Others Notable Victories: Notable Losses: Inconclusive Matches:

 

[Huesito88]

"Resistance to Soul Destruction (He cannot be killed through soul destruction at difference of other immortals [as long as korea exists], his soul is located in his sword)"

That's not resistance that just means soul destruction can't take him out.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Maybe can be worded better, but his soul can't be destroyed until north korea is around.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Here

 

[Huesito88]

Ok nevermind than that's resistance to soul destruction.

 

[Andytrenom]

It does sound like resistance.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Yeah, it's definitely just resistance. Unfortunately, we haven't seen how it works exactly as we haven't seen anyone use soul based attacks against him.

Han also already has light manipulation and Preparation on his profile from when he used the kitties. The new golems can be added to his golems section. Or even the page dedicated to his golems.

I'm also not sure if Shin-il has resistance to regen negation. Like it seems, and reads strongly that he does, I'm just not very sure on it.

Other than that it looks fine. Nice job, Risci.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Ah, right, he already had light.

The golems I intended to just add to their own profile, yeah. Not sure if they need to be put under prep tough, he makes them in seconds.

As for regen negation... not sure. Him being impossible to "dissipate" and his existence being fixed feel like... importnat stuff that I have no idea how to name in an ability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh, the weapons thruthwagon uses are called chakram.

 

[PaChi2]

''Cellular'' level.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Right, correcting that.

What should Truthwagon's dimensional interference be described as?

Or Dan's sword, for the matter.

 

[PaChi2]

Btw.

I'd rather wait for the truthwagon profile.

Why? Because he is a puppet with a stat penalty ability. I'd rather wait until or to see if the one pulling the strings shows up or is revealed (who wouldnt have the penalty).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, I would also wait, just making a beta for it.

How bout this for his ability?

Dimensional Interfierence: Thruth Wagon's speciality, it allows him to bend the space around himself to his will.

• Space Distortion Barrier: Creates a barrier that distorts anything unless specified otherwise. It can distort any physical, magical and supernatural attack, even if it doesn't make contact with the barrker such as vodoo magic and portals. Thruth Wagon has to specifically imput what to not reflect, such as light and sound, but even then he can put a threshold beyond which it gets distorted regardless, making light and sound attacks equally useless.
• Space Cutting: Controlling the space around him, he cuts through it, ignoring the durability of whatever is in the way of the slash

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dangun's sword: The sword of Dangun (The founder of Korea's first kingdom) fixates the user's existence, making them indestructable, and granting several other powers.

• Indestructibility: Makes the wielded unable to be destroyed, dispersed or killed. Be it their body or soul being attacked, as long as Korea and it's people exist they will keep recovering.
• Teleportation: The wielder becomes capable of apearing anywhere within Korea, even creating barriers to strike with sword from a distance. It also makes him unable to be teleported, or otherwise removed, from Korea against his will.
• Accelerated Development: While using the sword the wielder's combat capacity is greatly increased, and keeps increasing throughout the battle.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Yeah. All of that seems good.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

So, I might have missed that, but why didn't he regen when Hwan fought him? Did he not have the sword?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I don't think so. I don't think he was using the sword up until this point.

It might also just be a bit of a plot hole. The author may not have thought that far ahead.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, he had it when arc came around.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

He did? Like he was actively using it? Then I'm not really sure.

I mean, he got beat up by Hwan really early in the story. To go from being bedridden to getting beat up, to being able to heal cut eyes, arms, and legs, seems pretty extreme. I honestly just don't think the author had that in mind that early on in the story.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not using it. Hwan just said that he could use it to slap arc away, and sun just said that there was no point since they all were already part of the abyss regardless.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh wow. I didn't realize the sword was that strong.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh wow. I didn't realize the sword was that strong.

It isn't. They were underestimating arc a lot, They believed that the purple haired woman from Dan guild could kill him. It's still takes the hundred and something multiplier from lolikiano.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh, true. Yeah, you're right there.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Also...

Since Sun was supposed to get that strong with the sword, and he went up by several levels due to it...


Does this mean Han and Sun should get a possibly High 7-C?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I don't think so. I think 7-C is fine for now. I'd rather wait to see more things. See if we get a solid feat or multiplier.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, the High 7-C comes from the Dan guild multiplier (can't remember the specific number) making them hundreds of times stronger than loli.

That and Hwan thinking the Sword of Dan could defeat a guy who just recreated the whole city.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I mean maybe...but there's no evidence that such a multiplier is true other than Arc's tier. And it could also be that the sword has some ability that makes it effective against Arc, as opposed to it being merely AP.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

For the first part, the multiplier is used because it makes the AP lower. Without it they would plain be 7-B for thinking they could one-shot Arc.

For the latter, Occam's Razor would aply.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

We can't really apply Occam's Razor to these sorts of situations because of an utter lack of information. As we've already seen, the Sword of Dan has other abilities, such as resistance to soul manipulation, and the ability to attack from a distance. We don't know what else it can do, so we can't make the argument, "The Blade itself must be strong enough to harm Arc Company" when that's not the only possibility. When Han was fighting both Yoohwa and the Swordsman, sure, we knew he had gotten stronger. But it was his hax that defeated them, not his AP which would've been implied by his stats going up, him grinding for points, etc.

I still think it's best to wait. No harm in letting the story unfold so we don't have to guess.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Occam's razor specifically aplies here. The sword makes the user immortal, able to be anywhere in korea, stronger and a hypocrite for chastising han for being broken. If there is the chance that A) His stat amp, a power he already has, makes him able to beat him or B) he has some other unknown power, then A is taken unless there is something implyng it can't be applied.

We can wait, sure, but if some mew powers aren't poimted out that is getting aplied.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I still think we should wait. As so far nothing has touched Arc Company, and Loli's statement could easily be argued as her speculation.

Occam's razor is still difficult to apply in the lack of information. What is the totality of what the sword does? What exactly can Sun-il do with it? Why was he chosen? What about the sword makes Loli think it can defeat Arc Company? Does the series have a history of AP overcoming obstacles such as Arc Company?

Perhaps a few of these can be answered, but certainly not all. I just don't want to guess that the sword's AP is what can do it when we're encountering more hax in verse like mind manip, spatial manip, soul manip, etc. I think it's safer to just wait. There's not a need to try to push changes through based upon one character's speculations and what we know of the sword thus far. We'll know everything we need to know without having any doubts in due time.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As I already said

That statement is a lowball. Without that they would be plain 7-B. Plus 108 times is a ted bit too specific to be speculation.

There are several problems with this part. The main is, all of this questions miss the point of occam's razor. Let me give an exemple: "Sure, sans seems to teleport a lot, but how do you know hw isn't just manipulating time?" The idea isn't baseless, but there is no reason to assume that over teleportation beyond one part explained away with visuals. If more isn't getting shown then not only occam's razor, but burden of proof stuff makes the idea of not aplying the AP because of a possible unknown hax unaplicable.

There are also problems like the fact that it wasn't loli, but Hwan and Sun that tought that it could defeat the god, which should make him at least comparable to Dan guild members. Why was he choosen is explained in canon, he's the heir, and is a complete non-factor here. And most enemies are overcome through brute force, yes, and while there are exeptions to the rule it still boils down to a baseless assumption a dozen times more complicated instead of just using what it has already shown.

This part is quiet litirally burden of proof embodied. None of the reasons you gave make the idea of a hax that wasn't known more plausable than an ability it has already shown. You also seem to have missed how this are betas and how I will wait a few chapters still, and you even seem to havw forgot that you agreed to both loli's multiplier and the swords tier as is.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I honestly haven't forgotten that part.

The multiplier was actually already consistent with what Arc has shown to do. It doesn't change the fact that it was still Loli's speculation. But because we already had a feat of that level, I figured it would be fine. Not to mention that I am perfectly allowed to have a change of opinion.

The example with Sans is actually false equivalence here. Teleportation is nowhere near the same as having a god slaying sword with special abilities. The blade could be something akin to a do slayer from fairy tail, in which case it is simply especially effective against gods. Or perhaps has some unique ability that makes it effective against gods.

I suppose the question about Sun-il being the heir was misunderstood. But it's more so why is he the heir? What about him is unique enough to make him the heir? Is it simply because he's part of the Dan-Ui guild, or something more? The latter seems more likely.

It seems like we're gonna get some backstory this week anyhow, so that'll help. And regardless, the changes would really only apply to the weapon itself, and not to anyone else. As we've already agreed upon, Sun-il with and without the weapon are two different things. I'm just a fan of waiting for an actual feat as opposed to relying on a multiplier. It gets more and more inaccurate as one goes along. To have the sword listed as Low 7-B from a one time multiplier despite the blade itself having no feats at the time and only a statement of how strong it should be. And then to downscale Han and Sun-il to something that has been speculated by, 3 characters you said, to be Low 7-B (or 7-C if the blade was being compared to The President or something, as I only recall Loli speaking on it), to High 7-C, is rather inaccurate in its totality. 7-C is already based on a multiplier his staff gives him. And it's hard to dismiss small multipliers in verse as everyone gets some much stronger so quickly. But one that huge definitely needs something backing it. Some kind of feat or huge show of strength or something. But we only have them running from the doll of a more powerful sorcerer. From what we've actually seen, that alone doesn't suggest High 7-C. And Occam's Razor tells me, that if the sword really can beat Arc, who can manipulate laws and banish one from his dimension, then the blade likely has some powers that allow it to defeat high level entities. As opposed to pure AP, if we're going to go that route. Because pure AP can't defeat Arc.

Reason why I brought up Han and Yoohwa is because most of that Arc was really about how Han couldn't just bulldoze his way through everything with pure strength. And he had to use hax to take down the swordsman and to take down Yoohwa. Heck, even Kwon used hax to take down her foes. And then we're introduced to a new character who uses hax to defeat his foes as well in the form of Truth Wagon. It's becoming more and more common for the enemies to use some potent hax as they become more of a threat. We already have Arc. And Loli and Hwan both use hax as well despite them being allies (They're still powerful in their own right, however). So it's not impossible for something or someone strong to have hax abilities in the series, and is actually already a bit of a trend in the series.

Also, why is your first sentence in that weird box?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Of course you can have a change of opinion. But a plain statement giving a very specific number that is used to set a lower end to a feat neads reasoning to disagree with. Saying that it's just speculation on her part doesn't really do anything as far as that goes.

God slaying? The sword isn't ever described as godslaying in nature, only sacred due to being the sword of the dude who founded korea. So assuming it's specifically effective against gods is quiet litirally out of nowhere.

He is not part of the Dan-ul guild, they just hire him to do jobs for them, much like how Hwan hired lolikiano. The only reasoning given is heritage, with his grandfather being rapresented as the leader.

This part is just riddled with misconseptions.

It's two people, Hwan and Sun-il, that felt confident it would work against the being who created a city by existing. Lolikiano's statement has absolutly nothing to do with Arc, she simply says that a barrier made by her can only be broken by peeps that are 108 times stronger than her, and that only the Dan guild had that kind of resources.

The blade plain amps Sun-il, and it isn' t represented as being stronger than he is, which is why his level permanently increased by using it.

The part with them running from a doll sorcerer also is a non-factor, since AP itself is a plain non-factor in that fight as well, the dude even says he'd be long dead was it not for his spatial manip.

And the huge multiplier is backed up by them thinking that one-shotting a being that just recreated a several kilometer wide city by being born should be the norm, again, if you dismiss the multiplier they plain get 7-B.

Occams razor really doean't tell you that, since the blade can teleport Sun there, and his manipulation of the laws of physics doesn't really stop him from getting one-shot. And beyond the fact that pure AP can defeat Arc, since a strong enough hit would just do more damage than what he can regenerate, the statement of them killing the god assumed he did not have type 8.

He could tough. He even says that he simply did that because he didn't want to kill her. What he did was litirally buldozing her over and over until she used the mask. And he could have taken down the swordsman without hax as well, it was simply the fastest way to deal with him. Kwon plain never uses hax, and even if you want to cal pressure points that she did that to fodder and against her mother after beating her up the plain old way. Thruth Wagon is the only one that is not possible to defeat with brute force as of now, and you saying that more and more enemies are like that is not proof that the sword has somr hax, much like how we don't assume everyone in warhammer has hax to defeat enemies and scale them to statements of being able to kill them in AP as well.

Loli just doesn't use hax. The whole point of hax is that it works regardless of power, her main weakness is that her lifedrain doesn't work on people much stronger. And Hwan uses hax sparsely as all hell, and even then he buldozes people with it. Whenever or not it is impossible, it is not an assumption you can make without proof.

If you leave one space before writing in source mode (which is a must on the phone) it does that.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Han definitely defeated Yoohwa with hax. That was the entire point behind getting mind manipulation. You're referring to the first time they fought as opposed to the second. And even during the first time he was sealing members of the church in his golems so they couldn't fight.

But we're also referring to that number as a low end. Think of it like this. The only feat above Low 7-C in the series is Arc's City creation feat (unless Loli's feat of blowing up that forest is 7-C). Admittedly, some of my later comments on hax in the series are assumptuous. That's fair. But this is assumptuous as well. The sword itself is featless. We know some of it's lore. We know its current heir. And we know some of its abilities. But what has the blade, or Sun-il with the blade, actually done? Get defeated by Truth Wagon's doll, and that's literally it. Just because he and Hwan think that the sword of Dan can defeat Arc, doesn't mean it can even come close. Bora Jin and the Dan-UI guild thought that the sacred sword of seven branches could defeat Arc Company. Yet it didn't. If an entire guild was wrong on how to defeat Arc, why is it that two people can't be incorrect on the same thing? They're all aware of the sword's capabilities. Even still, they've proven that they can be wrong. And it has yet to be proven that the sword is capable of doing anything above 7-C feats for the time being. Statements need to be backed up by some kind of feats, of which there are none. At least none relating to the sword. This is keeping in mind that anything above 7-C for most characters at this point is an outlier.

Also, if Loli only said that it would take someone from the Dan-UI guild, then we have no clue of whom she was talking about. If Sun-Il isn't of the Dan-ui clan (Which his clan is, in a sense. They're like distant cousins), then why would the multiplier even apply to him? And why couldn't it be a case where a few of their stronger members attacked her barrier for a few minutes before breaking it? Like how members of the church would've had to have attacked Han's house barrier for several hours before breaking through it. It doesn't have to be a one shot. And even if it is, that one shot isn't coming from Sun-Il.

And you're correct on most of the hax piece. My mistake. Though Hwan did use void manip against the President. And you're right on Loli's hax. Though I have to wonder why. I'm not sure if they're going for a dbz style where stronger people can resist hax of those who are weaker. Sometimes it seems that way.

Ah, thank you. That sounds pretty annoying.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And you're correct on most of the hax piece. My mistake. Though Hwan did use void manip against the President. And you're right on Loli's hax. Though I have to wonder why. I'm not sure if they're going for a dbz style where stronger people can resist hax of those who are weaker. Sometimes it seems that way.

Ah, thank you. That sounds pretty annoying.

No, I am referring to the second. He litirally hit her so hard that not even her spiritualization could tank it, and only went for mindhax so that he would not need to kill her. And the golems "sealed" most of them after punching them unconscious, and their seaqling is litirally being too hard to break out of, that is directly AP.


The stories/mythology they reference as being part of the canon has plenty feats above that, and the crater the meteor made should put it at much higher, tough I am still trying to figure out how to get a decend low-end for it's size. And multipliers can be used without a feat directly justifying it, and people like Kars get it with much less backing.


The fact that he tought he could defeat the artificial god capable of creating a town by being born, and easily enough that the words they use is "finish this right away", makes him scale to the town creation itself, not arc. All artificial gods create pocket dimenions like that, and yet one-shotting them is the norm. You can't say he'd do it by outlasting due to the right away, so your either left with stat amp (a skill he has shown) or assuming that he has some never mentioned hax. In this case, occam's razor favors the first.


Again, you don't seem to be getting that this is used to downgrade them. If you were to say the multiplier is wrong, it gets put to 7-B. And saying that it's someone stronger in the guild also misses the point of that. Lolikiano's statement is a lowball, without it, he plain becomes 7-B. So, you either assume that he is High 7-C for being able to kill a being that recreates a city easily or 7-B.


The two clans are well distinguished, so no, he isn't. Because you can't break an illusury barrier over time, and the statement litirally says that you need to be 108 times stronger, and that Dan Ul fits that descritpion. The latter of which makes the idea of chip damage a non-factor.


Not sure why either. Tough most people seem to get magic resistance the stronger they are regardless, and "too stronk for U" is pretty much what Harem King does to Gaia.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

That's fair, but that's also one hit. Majority of the fight he was the one taking shots until he forced her to go for mind manip. That was his entire goal for the fight as he knew he should be able to beat her that way. Also, I'm pretty sure spiritualization protects against physical attack. That one attack was pure mana, so I guess it dealt magical damage? Honestly, there was still a physical explosion, so I'm not really sure how she took damage, but meh. I guess so.

There is the mythology. But those feats haven't been calced. Though I might be able to help you there, if you'd like to point me to a specific chapter.

Oh, you're scaling to the city creation, not Arc. Okay, that's different. That explanation makes much more sense to me than scaling the sword to Arc.

And then we're assuming he can kill Arc despite the only evidence being statements, not feats. If you would like to use the above reasoning to make the sword 7-B, that would make the most sense to me. As saying the blade can defeat Arc still has no real proof when the blade itself has no definitive feats of its own. Which is the crutch of the issue here.

I thought the two clans were indeed related? That they were originally part of the Dan-UI guild and that they split long ago. I'll need to go back and take a look.

Loli said Dan-UI as in the person from the legend, or someone from the guild?

Yeah. And honestly, if Gaia is the embodiment of a planet, then it seems pretty insane that anyone in verse can resist planetary fate hax. I still can't wait until we see the Harem King.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He can't kill Arc. He can kill an average artificial god, who can create dimensions, which is a feat that would be 7-B unless we lowball it with the multiplier.

They were related, but that was eond ago (In the litiral way) and the idea of familiar bonds mattering in the abyss just doesn't seem credible. They since have separated, much how like you don't think of austria and Hungary are allied only because they once were one nation.

Unless Dan-ul from the legend is still alive, the latter. Still, the qoute itself "They have to be 108 times stronger than me to break into this protected space. But only the Dan-ul guild has that kind of power."

I mean, there is a good chance that the whole multiple realities thing is canon like in his other works, and the fact that this world is outstanding due to the existance of a certain being (Not the Harem King tough. Probably Han, but not sure) seems to make that more plausible. Then there is the stuff with how certain wizards are said to create their own dimensions, some of which are infinite, without gaia.


Also, do you have any idea how to calculate the disance between the forefront of an image and the something in the background? The mountain in the back (Last of the pictures) is 800 meters tall.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Gotcha. That seems more plausible, since Arc is much stronger than the average artificial god.

I guess so. I suppose that's a matter of perspective. I bring that up because it would explain why Sun-Il inherited the blade.

If Loli refers to the guild then it could be multiple people in the guild, a few people in the guild. But since Sun-Il isn't part of the Dan-UI guild, we can't really scale anyone to that feat. Unless we want to scale Bora Jin. But still, that statement is a big vague, as no one, or ones, in particular are specified.

Yeah. There likely are a bunch of alternate realities. Like Asgard and such. The author seems to be incorporating a lot of mythologies and histories through use of alternate dimensions. I guess I always had assumed the Harem King got his powers from Gaia, but that's not necessarily the case. I guess we'll see in the future.

You'd have to use angsizing. It's on the calculations page I believe. Also, if you look on my message wall for Zatch Bell calcs, the one xanxassama did, the town level one, has an example of using it.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Leaving the AP alonme for now, it seems that we are getting nto Japanise Mythology next.

Specifically, Amaterasu, and seemingly her corpse/body being the thing that is sealed awayy (Which is what is causing pain to Shin). And she is described as a spiritual nuclear bomb or something (And there is "not kidding" right after, so I guess that might be another 7-C feat)? There seems to even be a joke of sudden power escalation from Han right after...

There is also hi, wondering how ridiculously OP Harem is if compared to all this.

And are those Dragoniak's beads his firing..?