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The Dovahkiin VS Steve
- Thread starter StarSlayer666
- Start date
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All the Law Manipulation does is erase right?
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The Dovahkiin blatantly stomps Steva via speed difference. Many arguments here are bloody ridiculous.
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I'm pretty sure we have speed be equalized by default if not mentioned. Or at the very least everyone can just count it as speed equalized because the op isn't having a speed blitz on purpose and just hasn't checked up on the thread for a while. If the op disagrees with equalizing speed then it is a blitz and a stomp, but he's just afk so we'll just have to get a admin to edit the thread a bit, if the original op doesn't come back (or we can just write speed is equalized on the profiles if this match is added). Also now that I finished my German assignment I'll go see if the Thu'um is law manipulation (but I'm pretty sure it's information manipulation/limited causality manipulation (when it comes to the thu'um, prisoners resist regular Causality Manipulation for other reasons) which won't save you from law manipulation).
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If the OP doesnt specify, we assume that speed is not equalized
SBA doesnt cover the speed equal rule
SBA doesnt cover the speed equal rule
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Thu'um isn't Law Manipulation.
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A lot of profiles from TES need a lot of clean up and they have a lot of powers and resistances also have to be added it seems
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As far as powers go, I believe only Concept hax and the various resistances are left to be added in Dovah's profile. Resistances seem to be missing for most TES profiles.
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Not to mention some profiles are empty and i dont know if is just me but some have been erase too.
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Dova gets a mod that allows him to resist law manipulation OvO
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"Dova gets a mod"
1.) What do you mean? Mod isn't allowed tho.
2) I checked Dova's profile. Dova doesn't have resist to law manip nor have resist void manip.
3) If u meant "mod" was a metaphor, then nothing in Dova's profile makes him allows him to resist law manip. You've to be more specific.
4) Technically Steve's Law manip casually destroys Dova is a quantum-being who is simultaneously of every race. Dova being quantum-being just by existing doesn't help him being hostile to Steve.
5) I don't see Dova's erasure in his profile.
1.) What do you mean? Mod isn't allowed tho.
2) I checked Dova's profile. Dova doesn't have resist to law manip nor have resist void manip.
3) If u meant "mod" was a metaphor, then nothing in Dova's profile makes him allows him to resist law manip. You've to be more specific.
4) Technically Steve's Law manip casually destroys Dova is a quantum-being who is simultaneously of every race. Dova being quantum-being just by existing doesn't help him being hostile to Steve.
5) I don't see Dova's erasure in his profile.
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6) Rewrites 4D =/= Rewrites Every Law/Concept. In this case you've to be more specific with scans. KongKing23's counter-argument seems exaggeration to me because rewriting a specified law doesn't mean the user can rewrite every law. I had known VSB doesn't allow that unless the character has feat of rewriting every law.KongKing23 said:
7) Of course How their rewriting law the power works ?
8) "Barfok casually manipulates causality" first I can't find Barfok in vsbattle profiles, second rewrites causality which one? Need scan and/or be specific because tho what's the purpose of rewriting the law?
9) "casually manipulate gods and divine laws in their own ways" Assuming gods were comparable to Dova's level and their "divine" laws which is just law 3D up to 4D.
10) When I read other versus threads from Dova. I just realized the OP was crap. Full power allows Dova to use above 2-C which meant this battle isn't 2-C vs 2-C. Basically, whether or not either Dova or Steve wins: It won't be added.
Why? This Dova was using isn't even 2-C. Also the all counter-argument about 1 tier powers was OOC in profile. That's another nonsense to me :/
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11) OP obviously want to troll 2-C MC character. I mean: Dova has above 2-C how is this even allow? This matchup was nonsense.
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she is from the lore from the 37 lessons of vivec if i remember correctlyDavidgumazon said:
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also there are still a lot of powers and resistances to be added to many profiles of TES so we are missing some powers here also the key 2-C of dova has the items that are beyond that key i think because they are items that is why they are allowed
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My response was originally targeted at those knowledgeable with TES verse. A lot of infos like Barfok that you won't know. I don't have times to go over them, because I just simply reiterate a few information that might prove useful.Davidgumazon said:
The ways of manipulating divine beings and laws in TES are varied, but the most basic type is the alteration of sounds that created the multiverses within the Aurbis. Sounds create Musics, and musics formulate the existence in TES verse itself. Those who can manipulate the sounds, The Dovahkiin for example, can change reality at the very basic level and might able to affect gods (you can check the Daedric or Aedric section in TES profile to see how poweful they are). There have been mortals like King Anumaril affected these godlike beings at a whim. The Dovahkiin wields the similar power should at the very least mimic the effects.
I was indicating there is a certain grey area of The Dovahkiin's powers that one can not simply tier them. Thu'um is one of suchs.
Thirdly, you are damn right. The OP is probably trolling here. A great difference in both speed and AP makes the fight being nonsensible.
By the way, I am not even voting here. Just throw words that provoke people's interests.
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That makes sense.KongKing23 said:
Well in fiction they use that kind of "reason" to justify that or this character manipulate stuff because of the plot said philosophy-related stuff. I dunno maybe Has fiction has gone too far?KongKing23 said:
But anyway basically characters in TES manipulate stuff? I'm not knowledgeable of TES but my common sense told so. xD
That makes sense. So basically they manip stuff attack stuff affect god-stuff... and Dova's more OP than those gods... huh Am I correct?KongKing23 said:
Me too. I haven't voted yet bcz I see Dova has some 1 tier stuff and I'm unsure if I can make coherent debate but it doesn't seem so....KongKing23 said:
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Dovahkiin is horribly insignificant to literally every god or daedra. Heck, the dog of Clavicus Vile, one of the weakest Daedric Princes is stronger than Dovahkiin. He only has like one hax that goes to that level which is powernull and the gods and Daedric Princes would whoop his ass if he tries to fight them.
What is Steve's Law Manip and how is it used?
What is Steve's Law Manip and how is it used?
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Well to make it simple... this isn't 2-C battle thread.
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TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
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Yes. As you can see, its a Low 2-C vs a 2-C, but the respective hax is more important than the APs, so their tier doesn't matter.Davidgumazon said:
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I believe it does matter yo. If it's such "stomp" stuff, then I'm not gonna deal with this. Since it make a stomp-y battle, it doesn't matter even Dova wins VSB rules still rules.
I don't know what your point's purpose for.
I don't know what your point's purpose for.
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I am not arguing that The Dovahkiin is stronger than gods. His mastery of Tonal Magic provides a lot of grey area that one can't simply tier. Combined that with the Prisoner Metaphysics, so the potential is literally limitless.TacticalNuke002 said:
I mean that why the debates involved The Prisoners are quite controversial on how they can ultilize their metaphysics with divine artifacts to maximize their successes against fate itself. The Dovahkiin has an inate hax that people like Marukh and Anumaril envied. Because they would not have to do long rituals to conquer gods, while The Dovahkiin can "potentially" get it done by speaking. This is a grey area in The Dovahkiin's abilities.
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The Dovahkiin has single object above 2-C and it requires him to pull it out and use it (plus it may only work on magic, I'm planning to make a thread about that tomorrow). Steve can do literally anything and the Dovahkiin dies as he is infinitely inferior to Steve. Pulling out the Staff of Magnus is a one way ticket to obliteration. BFR is the only reason this isn't a stomp and Steve would still win if he's BFR'd as law manipulation would kill the Dovahkiin while bfr would only change Steve's location. If this is a spite against anyone it's against the low 2-C character that Star keeps throwing against 2-Cs despite the fact he's been told multiple times 2-Cs destroy the Dovahkiin.Davidgumazon said:
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But what if Dovah goes Etherial before using his stuff?
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That requires him to say either a word or three words of power which would probably take longer than Steve to hit him (Steve gets his ap from dreaming) or law manipulation kills him almost instantly since it only takes a thought. Also the staff of Magnus may not even work here because after rewatching the College quest line I noticed the dragon priest that has the staff uses it against the Dovahkiin and it only drains his magic; you can still hit him with shouts and anything other than magic just fine (that would also probably effect one of his matches on the Dovahkiin's profile, but I'll talk about it after my college classes today).
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That is obviously game mechanics since there isn't anything in the game that outright prevents the player from doing anything (other than the ropes in the beginning of the game).
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Steve's Law Manipulation is literally just EE though.
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The ice form shout, getting thrown around by Unrelenting force, and paralysis + a few others if I think about it longer; would like to have a word about the Dovahkiin not being prevented from doing things. Also there a few others things that lead me to believe the Staff of Magnus only works on magic. Like how would the Dovahkiin defeat the original user if they got low 1-C power nulled, also everything you null with it through out the story is magic. The Eye of Magnus uses magic, the barrier it created around the college was magic, and it only nulls the Dovahkiin's magic and nothing else.TacticalNuke002 said:
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The ice form shout, getting thrown around by Unrelenting force, and paralysis + a few others if I think about it longer; would like to have a word about the Dovahkiin not being prevented from doing things. Also there a few others things that lead me to believe the Staff of Magnus only works on magic. Like how would the Dovahkiin defeat the original user if they got low 1-C power nulled, also everything you null with it through out the story is magic. The Eye of Magnus uses magic, the barrier it created around the college was magic, and it only nulls the Dovahkiin's magic and nothing else.
You do realise that the description of the Staff of Magnus in-game literally stated that it can also absorb health, right? Since Steve has no magic, it will only absorb his life force, which will one-shot him since the staff absorbtion is laughably above Steve's tier.
You do realise that the description of the Staff of Magnus in-game literally stated that it can also absorb health, right? Since Steve has no magic, it will only absorb his life force, which will one-shot him since the staff absorbtion is laughably above Steve's tier.
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They're not good examples of inability to use powers. Unrelenting Force is the Dovah getting ragdolled while in a cutscene like state, paralysis is paralysis and ragdolls while Ice form obviously prevents it because Dovah is encased in ice. There is nothing that restricts Dovah's abilities during normal gameplay (like during when Dovah can freely move). Its just Todd Howard being Todd Howard and doing a lazy job.
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But the Dovahkiin can survive that life absorption. I've seen multiple videos of people just punching the original user to death because he was doing so little damage to them. Also the Dovahkiin has to defeat the original user and that person was nulling the Dovahkiin from the other side of the temple. If the staff of Magnus has low 1-C absorption the Dovahkiin should have instantly died, but he didn't.
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The shout cool down restricts shouts. If the Staff could nullify abilities like the Thu'um why does it just fill up that cool down whenever it hits you? Why doesn't it instantly take away stamina and health instead of taking a very small amount of health after you loss all your magic. Also how would the Dovahkiin have won that fight if it's low 1-C power null?
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Except that we literally have no idea how the fight actually goes down. The only reliable feat that we can use to actually gauge the Staff of Magnus power is from the fight with Ancano, which shows the staff ability to absorb and null a low 1-C artifact in a couple of seconds.Keeweed said:
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A low 1-C artifact that only uses magic and is completely based around magic, being nulled by a staff from the god of magic that is shown repeatedly in game to effect mainly magic and slightly steal a very small amount of life only after the magic is drained from the target. The life absorption likely doesn't scale to the magic absorption and the power null doesn't effect any other power you use. Also the dragon priest is shown to null you as soon as you enter the temple. It doesn't matter how the fight went down because you get effected by the staff way before the Dovahkiin could have done anything about it.
Edit: I'm going to my college classes in 30 minutes. I'll just make a thread about the Staff of Magnus when I get home. If you make a response after this, just copy it and paste it to that thread when I make it.
Edit: I'm going to my college classes in 30 minutes. I'll just make a thread about the Staff of Magnus when I get home. If you make a response after this, just copy it and paste it to that thread when I make it.
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"The Staff of Magnus, one of the elder artifacts of Tamriel, was a metaphysical battery of sorts for its creator, Magnus. When used, it absorbs an enemy's health and mystical energy. In time, the Staff will abandon the mage who wields it before he becomes too powerful and upsets the mystical balance it is sworn to protect." - Tamrielic LoreKeeweed said:
Not a single line in this paragraph even mention that the health absorbtion effect is weaker than the magick absorbtion effect. You need to provide proof from Lore that support your argument. Otherwise, It's just a speculation.
Using gameplay to support your argument is faulty. You do realise that the Staff of Magnus in-game had It's damage set by Bethesda, right? And do you really think that they would make it so that Morokei can casually one-shot you? Come on, that's a blatant game mechanic.
Yes, Morokei did absorb your magick repeatedly through out the temple, but we don't know whether this is coming from the Staff of Magnus or not.
And again, we have no idea how the fight actually goes down. I mean, what stopping the Dovahkiin from just, I don't know, dodging it?
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Okay, thank you for clarification about Dova. So I gonna sit here and watch how this versus thread goes. I'm only knowledgeable about Minecraft stuff I have nothing much to say this time.Keeweed said:
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Ok I know I'm going to convince anyone by this point, but I'm just going to say why I personally think the Staff should only work on magic. I'll say it can just null other things in the next threads since that's what everyone else agrees on, but just know that personally I disagree with it.
"In time, the Staff will abandon the mage who wields it before he becomes too powerful and upsets the mystical balance it is sworn to protect."
That's from Arena last time I checked (items disappearing because you upset them only happened in Arena and Daggerfall). In that game Magnus was just a random wizard, not a god, and that game got retconned to hell and back.
Morokei doesn't null anything else about the Dovahkiin; I know it's a game, but I'm just supposed to ignore all the things they could have done to show it nulls you because Bethesda got lazy or didn't think anything through? They could have made the shout cool down instantly fill up, could make you lose stamina, and/or disarm you saying that you're to weak to hold the weapon in the corner of your screen. They didn't do any of that and just had it remove your magic, which lines up with everything else it power nulls being entirely magic based in nature. Also there is a difference in not having an object one shot you for gameplay and it doing literally nothing to stop the player. It does so little damage that you literally can not die to it unless you stand still and let it kill you. And it only starts to absorb that very small amount of health after there's no magic left to absorb which is already enough of a difference to have the magic and health absorption not be comparable unless shown to be (and it definitely isn't shown to be comparable).
When it comes to lore, the Dovahkiin being able to win against low 1-C power null is just complete non sense or the biggest thing of plot convince I've ever seen in my life. Like you said he could have dodged it, but it is a continuous beam that instantly hit you from all the way across the arena. And if the Dovahkiin could have dodged it then that makes the Staff pretty worthless because what stops any opponent the Dovahkiin is fighting from just dodging it.
On another note: is the Staff of Magnus even power null. I been thinking about this in the back of my head the whole time; it seems a lot more like power absorption. It's a really similar power and really doesn't change all to much, but it does somewhat effect things as resisting absorption is different than resisting power null (I'm pretty sure resisting absorption is rarer than power null so if anything it may benefit the Dovahkiin if that somehow ever comes up). It's weird to bring up, but power absorption seems more accurate and it is an important difference. (It being absorption also makes it that Staff needs to show the ability to absorb things like the thu'um and other powers like that, but it's only is stated to absorb magic and health)
"In time, the Staff will abandon the mage who wields it before he becomes too powerful and upsets the mystical balance it is sworn to protect."
That's from Arena last time I checked (items disappearing because you upset them only happened in Arena and Daggerfall). In that game Magnus was just a random wizard, not a god, and that game got retconned to hell and back.
Morokei doesn't null anything else about the Dovahkiin; I know it's a game, but I'm just supposed to ignore all the things they could have done to show it nulls you because Bethesda got lazy or didn't think anything through? They could have made the shout cool down instantly fill up, could make you lose stamina, and/or disarm you saying that you're to weak to hold the weapon in the corner of your screen. They didn't do any of that and just had it remove your magic, which lines up with everything else it power nulls being entirely magic based in nature. Also there is a difference in not having an object one shot you for gameplay and it doing literally nothing to stop the player. It does so little damage that you literally can not die to it unless you stand still and let it kill you. And it only starts to absorb that very small amount of health after there's no magic left to absorb which is already enough of a difference to have the magic and health absorption not be comparable unless shown to be (and it definitely isn't shown to be comparable).
When it comes to lore, the Dovahkiin being able to win against low 1-C power null is just complete non sense or the biggest thing of plot convince I've ever seen in my life. Like you said he could have dodged it, but it is a continuous beam that instantly hit you from all the way across the arena. And if the Dovahkiin could have dodged it then that makes the Staff pretty worthless because what stops any opponent the Dovahkiin is fighting from just dodging it.
On another note: is the Staff of Magnus even power null. I been thinking about this in the back of my head the whole time; it seems a lot more like power absorption. It's a really similar power and really doesn't change all to much, but it does somewhat effect things as resisting absorption is different than resisting power null (I'm pretty sure resisting absorption is rarer than power null so if anything it may benefit the Dovahkiin if that somehow ever comes up). It's weird to bring up, but power absorption seems more accurate and it is an important difference. (It being absorption also makes it that Staff needs to show the ability to absorb things like the thu'um and other powers like that, but it's only is stated to absorb magic and health)
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Except that book only exist in Morrowind and Oblivion, and It's effects was confirmed in Skyrim. Clearly it didn't get retconned.
I never said that it null everything, that might be others' argument, but not mine. All I said is that the health absorbtion effect is not weaker than the magick absorbtion effect, which has zero proof in lore to support it. And if the Dovahkiin resisted it, then It's a feat for the Dovahkiin, and not an anti-feat for the Staff of Magnus.
And I'm telling you that we have no idea how the fight went down. When I said dodging, I was just telling you one of the many ways on how the fight can go down. He could have uses Slow Time, he could have places a rune under Morokei, or he could have uses sneak attack, etc. Point is, we don't know and we will never know.
No, I think It's not a power null, it's low 1-C power absorbtion.
I never said that it null everything, that might be others' argument, but not mine. All I said is that the health absorbtion effect is not weaker than the magick absorbtion effect, which has zero proof in lore to support it. And if the Dovahkiin resisted it, then It's a feat for the Dovahkiin, and not an anti-feat for the Staff of Magnus.
And I'm telling you that we have no idea how the fight went down. When I said dodging, I was just telling you one of the many ways on how the fight can go down. He could have uses Slow Time, he could have places a rune under Morokei, or he could have uses sneak attack, etc. Point is, we don't know and we will never know.
No, I think It's not a power null, it's low 1-C power absorbtion.
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