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The Death of NEP Type 2

Planck69 said:
I see.

Just to clarify, you say that at a higher level of existence, beings can interact with those with NEP Type 2 at lower levels. Could you explain this to me? I'm under the impression that simply existing at a higher plane doesn't mean one can interact with conceptual nothingness at a lower one.
Click to expand...
NEP type 2 is based around lacking a type of abstract structure, which in VBW we assume should exist at all possible levels of reality when verse equalisation is applied ( look at how the wiki treats hax like conceptual manipulation/ soul manipulation/ mind manipulation in the first place, where we assume all characters exist under a cosmology that contains those things and all variations of those things in a vs thread, for an example of that). As such NEP type 2 only works as proof for a character lacking concepts/ forms at a layer of reality specified by the verse, but they should have concepts/ forms at a higher layer of reality not specified by the verse (see: transduality standards).
 
Tago238 said:
look at how the wiki treats hax like conceptual manipulation/ soul manipulation/ mind manipulation in the first place, where we assume all characters exist under a cosmology that contains those things and all variations of those things in a vs thread, for an example of that.
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You are right, though the wiki isn't wrong on NEP type 2, it is incosistent and wrong on other abstract things
 
I'm arguing for what the wiki's standards are, not against them. That can be done another time if needed.
 
Tago238 said:
NEP type 2 is based around lacking a type of abstract structure, which in VBW we assume should exist at all possible levels of reality when verse equalisation is applied ( look at how the wiki treats hax like conceptual manipulation/ soul manipulation/ mind manipulation in the first place, where we assume all characters exist under a cosmology that contains those things and all variations of those things in a vs thread, for an example of that). As such NEP type 2 only works as proof for a character lacking concepts/ forms at a layer of reality specified by the verse, but they should have concepts/ forms at a higher layer of reality not specified by the verse (see: transduality standards).
Click to expand...
Huh, thanks for that.

So, if a character has NEP Type 2 in a 2-A cosmology, it doesn't translate to being untouchable by a character manipulating say, 1-C concepts?
 
Except if doesn't have ever work like that, praticaly all the staff, the mod etc have always tell that NEP2 can't be affect by people with higher existence, we had like 2 thousand thread about it
 
Planck69 said:
Q&A threads have little bearing on wiki standards if any.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that should have a thing about the creation of this page
Tago238 said:
NEP type 2 is based around lacking a type of abstract structure, which in VBW we assume should exist at all possible levels of reality when verse equalisation is applied ( look at how the wiki treats hax like conceptual manipulation/ soul manipulation/ mind manipulation in the first place, where we assume all characters exist under a cosmology that contains those things and all variations of those things in a vs thread, for an example of that). As such NEP type 2 only works as proof for a character lacking concepts/ forms at a layer of reality specified by the verse, but they should have concepts/ forms at a higher layer of reality not specified by the verse (see: transduality standards).
Click to expand...
For that concept are divised in type and not by layer of reality. Except if the verse talk each layer of reality having is own concept it's not how we treat thing.
 
Anyways, DT have tell that in some time a thread will be made for changing the description of NEP2.
 
Regidian said:
Except if doesn't have ever work like that, praticaly all the staff, the mod etc have always tell that NEP2 can't be affect by people with higher existence, we had like 2 thousand thread about it
Click to expand...
You know the wiki can simply perpetuate something wrong right? This happens with a lot of abilities.

And most threads mentioned are just QnA threads anyways, we've yet to have an official stance be set in a proper thread to my knowledge.
 
Planck69 said:
You know the wiki can simply perpetuate something wrong right? This happens with a lot of abilities.

And most threads mentioned are just QnA threads anyways, we've yet to have an official stance be set in a proper thread to my knowledge.
Click to expand...
Even the one that Litteraly create the page and description of the page? Cool to know. The reason he give is like telling that a 2-A souless being could have a soul in higher dimmension in vsb because the limited scope of their verse.


And like i tell the description of NEP2 was already changed, which it mean a thread was already done, you guy just need to search.



And DT will remake a thread in some time about this
 
Last edited:
Regidian said:
Even the one that Litteraly create the page and description of the page?
Click to expand...
I mean to be fair, that's an Appeal to Authority fallacy, he could easily be massively wrong as we go further into discussing the limits of this.
 
Regidian said:
Even the one that Litteraly create the page and description of the page? Cool to know. The reason he give is like telling that a 2-A souless being could have a soul in higher dimmension in vsb because the limited scope of their verse.
Click to expand...
Appeal to Authority helps no one.
Regidian said:
And like i tell the description of NEP2 was already changed, which it mean a thread was already done, you guy just need to search.
Click to expand...
Can you link this then?
Regidian said:
And DT will remake a thread in some time about this
Click to expand...
Good, maybe then you won't be prissy over whether Nasuverse keeps it because really, you're overreacting a lot here.
 
I think maybe a reexamination of NEP2 is in order over here, if its nature is that controversial
 
Planck69 said:
I see.

Just to clarify, you say that at a higher level of existence, beings can interact with those with NEP Type 2 at lower levels.
Click to expand...
If that's actually the case, then that changes a lot of matchups.

Sonic could probably beat UKG now, if that's the case.
 
"For that concept are divised in type and not by layer of reality. Except if the verse talk each layer of reality having is own concept it's not how we treat thing."

And I'm not talking about the indexed types? I'm talking about the fact that we consider there to be 1-A type 3 concepts, 1-C type 2 concepts, etc in matches using verse equalisation. Types not referring to tiers doesn't even begin to be an argument anyway, we accept type 3 transduality is superior to type 2 but the arbitrary nature of a specific 1-A border (when that's as justified as any other tier based border) is why they are going to be merged eventually.
 
Planck69 said:
Appeal to Authority helps no one.

Can you link this then?

Good, maybe then you won't be prissy over whether Nasuverse keeps it because really, you're overreacting a lot here.
Click to expand...
Why you talk about Nasuverse? I don't overreact a lot, just find amusing that you tell because the comm of one people that absolutely everyone would be wrong lol. And it's not an appeal to autority
 
I don't know appealing to the original author's word like it adds credibility sounds a lot like Appeal to Authority to me
 
Tago238 said:
"For that concept are divised in type and not by layer of reality. Except if the verse talk each layer of reality having is own concept it's not how we treat thing."
And I'm not talking about the indexed types? I'm talking about the fact that we consider there to be 1-A type 3 concepts, 1-C type 2 concepts, etc in matches using verse equalisation. Types not referring to tiers doesn't even begin to be an argument anyway, we accept type 3 transduality is superior to type 2 but the specific 1-A border is why they are going to be merged eventually.
Click to expand...
Except for transduality we don't accept the 1-A border anymore, it's why they going to be merged, so why using it as argument?

Being 1-A type 3 concept is about potency of the concept not about having each level of concept in each level of reality. Like how we don't consider that a guy that is souless in 3D will have like a soul in 6-D because we do the 1-A soul too.
 
Regidian said:
Except for transduality we don't accept the 1-A border anymore, it's why they going to be merged, so why using it as argument?

Being 1-A type 3 concept is about potency of the concept not about having each level of concept in each level of reality. Like how we don't consider that a guy that is souless in 3D will have like a soul in 6-D because we do the 1-A soul too.
Click to expand...
1)Because merging it was part of the argument, Jesus Christ, what do you think I was saying when I literally mentioned that? 1-A isn't being taken away because "all types of transduality are equal" it's because the 1-A boundary was arbitrary when any other tier would have been just as justified, as I said.

2)I don't even know what you are arguing in that first sentence, there would be a cosmological difference between a concept that showed the mechanics of a type 3 concept but was 1-A and a concept that showed the mechanics of a type 3 concept but was Low 2-C. Also that assumption in the second sentence is what I was arguing against in the first place, as I consider it logically inconsistent with the formally defined standards of the wiki. So you could do with actually debating instead of repeating the same pseudo argument done in this thread before against me of "that's wrong, this is right" with no justification for this central assertion.
 
Tago238 said:
1)Because merging it was part of the argument, Jesus Christ, what do you think I was saying when I literally mentioned that? 1-A isn't being taken away because "all types of transduality are equal" it's because the 1-A boundary was arbitrary when any other tier would have been just as justified, as I said.

2)I don't even know what you are arguing in that first sentence, there would be a cosmological difference between a concept that showed the mechanics of a type 3 concept but was 1-A and a concept that showed the mechanics of a type 3 concept but was Low 2-C. Also that assumption in the second sentence is what I was arguing against in the first place, as I consider it logically inconsistent with the formally defined standards of the wiki. So you could do with actually debating instead of repeating the same pseudo argument done in this thread before against me of "that's wrong, this is right" with no justification for this central assertion.
Click to expand...
I didn't understand your first arguments because i don't see the point it was making. It's more because just to stop the glorification of the 1-A that was made before because it's non sense with the new tiering and description.

Tago238 said:
That thread has nothing to do with what's being discussed rn.
Click to expand...
Planck ask me a thread where NEP2 description was modified.

Actually it's talk a little about it but mostly about the type effect than the reality layer effect
 
I lean except if i don't understand what you guy want explain pretty sure that it's still revelant in part with what you guy want no? Just the difference that you guy think that it's go with all reality level


"Yes! it's that! exactly

The only problem i need to fix is: if a Tier 2 is non existent on a Conceptual level, it's just a level above the basic Non existence, characters with feats or "higher dimensional" conceptual manipulation should be able to affect them. Basic Tier 2 Conceptual manipulation don't work tho"
 
"I didn't understand your first arguments because i don't see the point it was making. It's more because just to stop the glorification of the 1-A that was made before because it's non sense with the new tiering and description."
Aye, that arbitrary boundary was based around glorifying 1-A. Does that clear it up?

"Planck ask me a thread where NEP2 description was modified.

Actually it's talk a little about it but mostly about the type effect than the reality layer effect"

You can also consider my comment a response to your original argument then, since you brought up something completely irrelevant and acted condescendingly as if it was a necessary thread to "research". When, indeed, it was not.
 
Tago238 said:
"I didn't understand your first arguments because i don't see the point it was making. It's more because just to stop the glorification of the 1-A that was made before because it's non sense with the new tiering and description."
Aye, that arbitrary boundary was based around glorifying 1-A. Does that clear it up?

"Planck ask me a thread where NEP2 description was modified.

Actually it's talk a little about it but mostly about the type effect than the reality layer effect"

You can also consider my comment a response to your original argument then, since you brought up something completely irrelevant and acted condescendingly as if it was a necessary thread to "research". When, indeed, it was not.
Click to expand...
I mean i'm pretty sure that i write "it's one of the thread" when i send the link. Not that it's the thread that will solve all the thing.

But anyways why don't just make a staff thread about it? As personnaly i have make a Q&A to ask before but apparently but it's not official answer
 
Regidian said:
I lean except if i don't understand what you guy want explain pretty sure that it's still revelant in part with what you guy want no? Just the difference that you guy think that it's go with all reality level


"Yes! it's that! exactly

The only problem i need to fix is: if a Tier 2 is non existent on a Conceptual level, it's just a level above the basic Non existence, characters with feats or "higher dimensional" conceptual manipulation should be able to affect them. Basic Tier 2 Conceptual manipulation don't work tho"
Click to expand...
Can't see that comment on the thread, ctrl f-ing it


Regidian said:
I mean i'm pretty sure that i write "it's one of the thread" when i send the link. Not that it's the thread that will solve all the thing.

But anyways why don't just make a staff thread about it? As personnaly i have make a Q&A to ask before but apparently but it's not official answer
Click to expand...
You said "And like i tell the description of NEP2 was already changed, which it mean a thread was already done, you guy just need to search." as if it was a really special thing. Also even if you were including it in the "2000 threads" it's been discussed in cool, you should have found an example thread of this bunch that proved your point.
 
Tago238 said:
Can't see that comment on the thread, ctrl f-ing it
Click to expand...

3 comm before the end of the page, i'm on phone so can't do that ctrl + f
Tago238 said:
You said "And like i tell the description of NEP2 was already changed, which it mean a thread was already done, you guy just need to search." as if it was a really special thing. Also even if you were including it in the "2000 threads" it's been discussed in cool, you should have found an example thread of this bunch that proved your point.
Click to expand...
I mean most if them are in Q&A not my fault to. I just used this thread because it was the one that elizhaa used in my Q&A to try to prove the same point that you
 
But anyways the best would be to make thread about this, when i made the mine some moment ago, it was in Q&A because not here to change NEP2 as for me it was already like that
 
"3 comm before the end of the page, i'm on phone so can't do that ctrl + f"
Alright, I mean that just seemed to be a random thing brought up by a blue name that didn't end up changing anything so.

"I mean most if them are in Q&A not my fault to. I just used this thread because it was the one that elizhaa used in my Q&A to try to prove the same point that you"
Okay, you brought bad evidence to the table and found it hard to find better. I mean thanks for the making my optics better ig.
 
Regidian said:
But anyways the best would be to make thread about this, when i made the mine some moment ago, it was in Q&A is not to change NEP2 as for me it was already like that
Click to expand...
Link the thread. Also sure, I'll keep this in my list of CRTs I wanna make.
 
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