The Death of NEP Type 2

[Tago238]

Okay, well I wouldn't call January this year "some moment" but I suspect that was autocorrect now.

 

[Regidian]

Link the thread. Also sure, I'll keep this in my list of CRTs I wanna make.

If you want i can take your comment above and make the crt now, as since character with nep2 are often in vsb like anos etc, should be better to know what vsb do for this abiliy now

 

[Tago238]

It's fine, I'll make my own thread if it's particularly important. Of course other people seemed to show interest in making one themselves, so I'll keep it in mind and if a thread is made I'll post my points there.

 

[Naito-desu]

If you want I can make a thread ahead to get the discussion started on NEP 2

 

[Planck69]

I'd rather it be a concise thread on standards than an inane discussion honestly. We already have many of those.

 

[Tago238]

Nah, it's fine. I agree with what Planck has said and also a general NEP type 2 thread might be seen as intersecting with the stuff DT has planned anyway.

 

[Naito-desu]

You know a thought occurs but wouldn't it be kind of NLF-y to assume that Nonexistent Physiology applies to all planes of existence, even beyond the limits shown in the verse's cosmology.

 

[Tago238]

Yes.

 

[Planck69]

You know a thought occurs but wouldn't it be kind of NLF-y to assume that Nonexistent Physiology applies to all planes of existence, even beyond the limits shown in the verse's cosmology.

Extremely so. But until the thread is made, it's an uphill battle against fans who can't have their characters possibly lose and want them to be the stronkest eva etc.

I'll just wait and see.

 

[Planck69]

Anyone find it kinda weird how a regular looking dude can have NEP Type 2? Wouldn't the fact that a name, appearance and sense of self would imply a concept of self exists for them? Or am I overthinking or misunderstanding this?

 

[Naito-desu]

I mean no less different than how a loli can be Tier 0, but I guess it's really just a matter of context of what NEP implies. Maybe your avatar is existent but your true essence has no true existence or at least lies beyond the boundaries of existence of your verse.

 

[Delta333]

Anyone find it kinda weird how a regular looking dude can have NEP Type 2? Wouldn't the fact that a name, appearance and sense of self would imply a concept of self exists for them? Or am I overthinking or misunderstanding this?

I think about this before,somehow I also find it's weird when NEP type 2 characters have a name

 

[Rikimarox2]

Anyone find it kinda weird how a regular looking dude can have NEP Type 2? Wouldn't the fact that a name, appearance and sense of self would imply a concept of self exists for them? Or am I overthinking or misunderstanding this?

NEP2 in an of itself is wonky. I feel like simply having your concept erased shouldn't be enough to grant NEP2 if you still have a name or smth or if the verse doesn't treat as anything special

 

[Planck69]

I mean no less different than how a loli can be Tier 0, but I guess it's really just a matter of context of what NEP implies. Maybe your avatar is existent but your true essence has no true existence or at least lies beyond the boundaries of existence of your verse.

A loli being Tier 0 isn't an issue in any sense, that's just power. A leech could have it so I have no idea why you think it's "no less different".

 

[Regidian]

Anyone find it kinda weird how a regular looking dude can have NEP Type 2? Wouldn't the fact that a name, appearance and sense of self would imply a concept of self exists for them? Or am I overthinking or misunderstanding this?

Depend on what they based their NEP2, people that was conceptualy erased could by ex just use the name they had befire the erase, it would not be anymore their name but can still use it fir their avatar etc


It was talked in discord too for some people think that NEP 2 should be more hard to get because of thing like that

 

[Naito-desu]

Not saying that we should kill NEP 2 but logic dictates that if I had a non-existence in a low 2-C verse, you could argue that I'm merely beyond the limits of low 2-C existence rather than all existence, it should require more proof that higher tiers can't interact with me.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I mean no less different than how a loli can be Tier 0

I dont see what do u mean with this

 

[Bernkastelll]

Not saying that we should kill NEP 2 but logic dictates that if I had a non-existence in a low 2-C verse, you could argue that I'm merely beyond the limits of low 2-C existence rather than all existence, it should require more proof that higher tiers can't interact with me.

NEP 2 in poorly words is not existing, why would a higher tier interact with something that doesnt exist?

 

[Tago238]

A concept of self not existing is a bit NLFey (although there are characters with NEP who should have omnipresence because of their NEP, like the auditors of reality) but the criticism of characters existing spatially and having an appearance is one that can be extended to AE and Non Corporeality. It's just a thing with fiction for the most part, quite frequently it is explained in some sense (at least for the appearance thing).

As for these characters having names, even for noumena you can give the name noumena so it isn't really illogical.

 

[Naito-desu]

Well I didn't see his point initially, so stop harping on that specifically

 

[Naito-desu]

NEP 2 in poorly words is not existing, why would a higher tier interact with something that doesnt exist?

How would you prove that it's not existing and not simply beyond the limits of existence in that verse? Unless you wanted to immediately assume that non-existence totally means no existence on all levels of existence far beyond the capabilities of that verse's cosmology, which sounds a lot like a No Limits Fallacy to me

 

[Regidian]

Not saying that we should kill NEP 2 but logic dictates that if I had a non-existence in a low 2-C verse, you could argue that I'm merely beyond the limits of low 2-C existence rather than all existence, it should require more proof that higher tiers can't interact with me.

Just correct that it's not about being beyond existance but lack it

 

[Tago238]

NEP 2 in poorly words is not existing, why would a higher tier interact with something that doesnt exist?

What is this? Why is this thread constantly reverting to square 1?

 

[Bernkastelll]

How would you prove that it's not existing and not simply beyond the limits of existence in that verse?

Most of NEP 2 comes from being erased on a conceptual level (most fundamental level of existance), so, it doesnt exist, why would it be 'limits of existence'' if NEP 2 is literally otherwise?

 

[Delta333]

NEP type 2 is actually NEP type 1 but has immunity to concept manip,change my mind

 

[Regidian]

NEP type 2 is actually NEP type 1 but has immunity to concept manip,change my mind

Actually many NEP 2 are it not from only conceptual point. It's why some people want to make it more harder to get

 

[LightReinh12345]

It's funny if it was High 1-A Yog, that's 1-A Yog tho

Still very funny to me

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Woah, what's going on here? Why are people talking about the Great Old Ones?

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Tago does make sense here, I'd agree with him.

Imagine being a Tier 0 guy via transcending an absolute infinite number of dimensions, transcending the entire cardinality system, gifted with fucktons of hax including conceptual manipulation and *****, then a random 11-C dude suddenly comes up and says "hi" and mocks your momma, but due to his type 2 NEP and your lack of interraction feat to said physiology you can't Kung Lao kick him .

Sounds NLF-ish as ****, yes, I'll wait for DT's thread.

 

[manu_zarri]

Imagine being a Tier 0 guy via transcending an absolute infinite number of dimensions, transcending the entire cardinality system, gifted with fucktons of hax including conceptual manipulation and *****, then a random 11-C dude suddenly comes up and says "hi" and mocks your momma, but due to his type 2 NEP and your lack of interraction feat to said physiology you can't Kung Lao kick him .

SCP Tier 11 in simple words