- 22,043
- 18,127
In this thread, I'll be debunking the Myth that God and Amara are equal. The numbers are based on formatting from the Supernatural wiki. Digits before the decimal represent seasons, and numbers after are episodes.
Lucifer's Statement
According to Lucifer, God and The Darkness are equal in power, but God won the battle with her due to his experience and being a master strategist.
11.09 O Brother Where Art Thou?
11.09 O Brother Where Art Thou?
11.10 The Devil in the Details
11.14 The Vessel
11.22 We Happy Few
Statements
It's stated that God and the Archangels barely stopped her
In a fit of rage after being heavily weakened, Amara banishes Lucifer, and then overpowers and almost kills God. It's even implied she was holding back so he could see the universe's destruction.
11.22 We Happy Few
Counter Arguments
Mandatory Existence
This isn't stated to be a power thing, it's about balance between light and dark in the universe
Lucifer's Statement
According to Lucifer, God and The Darkness are equal in power, but God won the battle with her due to his experience and being a master strategist.
11.09 O Brother Where Art Thou?
- Sam: Is she equal to him in power?
- Lucifer: Raw power? Sure. But she's got none of the experience. God is a master strategist. That's why you're here.
11.09 O Brother Where Art Thou?
- Lucifer: I have to say, you're extraordinarily calm given the circumstances.
- Sam: Well, it's pretty much exactly how God told me it was going to be. Guess I just have to go with it and play my hand.
- Lucifer: Well, that would make so much sense if it was God that was doing the talking. You see Sam, when the Darkness descended the impact on Hell was massive. The Cage was damaged. Through the fissures I was able to reach out. It wasn't God inside your head Sam. It was me.
11.10 The Devil in the Details
- Sam: You know what? You talk a good game. You do. Hell, you almost had me sold a few times. But then I thought what if you're right? What if you're telling the truth? What if you can beat her?
- Lucifer [yelling]: I can!
- Sam: Even though the last time it took you, plus three other archangels. Oh yeah, and capital G, God.
- Lucifer: Oh okay, what, you mean the dead weight?
11.14 The Vessel
- LUCIFER: You're a clever little doggy. You're right, at the moment, I may be a bit under-equipped. Maybe defeating Amara was a bit more of a team effort than I led certain people to believe. All that said, I'm still your Master, did I let you out of that kennel too soon?
11.22 We Happy Few
- CHUCK: Amara's been caged for billions of years, but y'know, she was always there. She had to be there. Y'know, yin and yang. Dark and light.
- DEAN: English, Chuck. (With an exasperated huff, CHUCK waves a hand and the Winchesters are downstairs.)
- CHUCK: There's a harmony, a balance, in the universe. Light needs dark. Dark needs light. If you blow one of them up, then, I mean—
- LUCIFER: It wouldn't be a good thing.
- CHUCK: It'd be really not a good thing. Like 'end of reality' not good.
- SAM: Okay, so we gift-wrap Amara. I mean, we got the team back together, so—
- CHUCK: Not quite. We're still a few members short of the original line-up.
- LUCIFER: Yeah, first time it took the combined strength of me and my brothers to weaken Amara before Daddy-O finished her off.
- CHUCK: Even then it was close. Now with just the two of us, we'll lose.
- DEAN: Okay, so what? We need more, uh, group therapy between you and the archangels if we wanna have a shot?
- CHUCK: Well, Michael's in no condition to fight, and it's outside of my power to bring Gabriel and Raphael back.
Statements
It's stated that God and the Archangels barely stopped her
- DEATH (standing up): Before there was light, before there was God and the archangels, there wasn't nothing. There was the Darkness, a horribly destructive, amoral force that was beaten back by God and his archangels in a terrible war. God locked the Darkness away where it could do no harm, and he created a Mark that would serve as both lock and key, which he entrusted to his most valued Lieutenant, Lucifer. [...]
- CHUCK: Not quite. We're still a few members short of the original line-up.
- LUCIFER: Yeah, first time it took the combined strength of me and my brothers to weaken Amara before Daddy-O finished her off.
- CHUCK: Even then it was close. Now with just the two of us, we'll lose.
- DEAN: Okay, so what? We need more, uh, group therapy between you and the archangels if we wanna have a shot?
- CHUCK: Well, Michael's in no condition to fight, and it's outside of my power to bring Gabriel and Raphael back.
- DEAN: Okay, well, forget killing me. Can you get rid of it?
- DEATH: I could.
- DEAN: But...
- DEATH: Creation ex nihilo -- God created the earth out of nothing -- or so your Sunday-school teacher would have you believe.
- DEAN: What, so Genesis is a lie, eh? Shocker.
- DEATH (standing up): Before there was light, before there was God and the archangels, there wasn't nothing. There was the Darkness, a horribly destructive, amoral force that was beaten back by God and his archangels in a terrible war. God locked the Darkness away where it could do no harm, and he created a Mark that would serve as both lock and key, which he entrusted to his most valued Lieutenant, Lucifer. [...]
- DEATH: Our conundrum is simple, Sam. Your brother cannot be killed, and the Mark cannot be destroyed, not without inciting a far greater evil than any of us have ever known.
- SAM: What evil?
- DEAN: The Darkness.
- SAM: What the hell is that?
- DEAN: Well, what does it sound like? Does it sound like a good thing?
- DEATH: Even if I remove Dean from the playing field, we're still left with you, loyal, dogged Sam, who I suspect will never rest until he sets his brother free ― (Death walks around Dean to stand between Sam and Dean. As he gets closer to Sam, Dean walks further away. Death walks closer to Sam until he is right in his face) will never rest until his brother is free of the Mark, which simply cannot happen, lest the Darkness be set free. Then there was that time you stood me up.
- AMARA: Don't. Even on your best day, you couldn't force my hand. And this is not your best day. In fact, I don't think you can do much of anything. Ah, a few parlor tricks, perhaps, but you can't leave this world, not without my help. And me? I'm done, Chuck. I've changed. I've adapted. I've... I've become the better me. And you? You are still the same... petulant, narcissistic. So... I'm leaving you here. Once, long ago, you sealed me away. Now, in a way... I'm doing the same to you. You're trapped, diminished, abandoned. So I guess you got what you've always wanted. You're on your own.
In a fit of rage after being heavily weakened, Amara banishes Lucifer, and then overpowers and almost kills God. It's even implied she was holding back so he could see the universe's destruction.
11.22 We Happy Few
- DEAN (grunting): No. Amara, what have you done?
- SAM: He's dead. God's dead.
- AMARA: No. He's dying. My brother will dim and fade away into nothing. But not until he sees what comes next. Not until he watches this world, everything he created, everything he loves turn to ash. Welcome to the end. (She disappears.)
- AMARA (with a bitter laugh): Well, you've won again. (She sighs heavily.) Finish it. Kill me.
Counter Arguments
Mandatory Existence
This isn't stated to be a power thing, it's about balance between light and dark in the universe
- CHUCK: Yeah, no, I— I'm dying. So, we don't really have a choice. I mean, look. Y-You've got darkness and light. Y-You take one side away a-and—
- CAS: It upsets the scales—the whole balance of the universe.
- SAM: Exactly. But you take both away, and now both sides of the scale are empty, so...
- CAS: Of course. It's balanced.
- CHUCK: Amara, we've been all through this. We belong together.
- AMARA: Yes. Yes, yin, yang, balance of nature. I am willing to coexist with you, brother, in the universe. Just not, you know, anywhere near you.
- AMARA: That's your story. Not mine. The real reason you banished me, why I couldn't be allowed to exist you couldn't stand it. Yeah, we're equals. We weren't great or powerful because we stood only in relation to each other. You think you made the archangels to bring light? No. You made them to create lesser beings, to make you large. (She struggles to her feet.) To make you Lord. It was ego! You wanted to be big!
- Grown Darkness: Amara... You must stay fixed on our purpose. Even we cannot undo what's already done. But as you grow and become stronger, your true destiny will become clear to you. I am what you are becoming. And we are mightier than God.
