Rabbit2002
She/Her- 2,536
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2-A Upgrade
In 5.04 of supernatural, Dean (MC) was sent into alternate future by an angel. In that future he was killed by his brother who was literally possessed by Satan and the world was engulfed in apocalypse, zombies,.. Wog explained it as an alternate universe model as well as possible future.
This implies that verse works under the MWI where the timeline branches into different timelines based on the uncertainty of the future and free will (essentially the ability to choose). As for the number of alternate futures (aka alternate universes), Wog confirmed it is infinite on twitter.
Is there any evidence to support that?
Yeah, right in the very same season 5 we were introduced to a monster (Pagan God) that can take on infinite forms.
What does that mean? Futures and alternate universes are created based on free will and the ability to choose as mentioned above, with infinite forms you will have infinite choices or possible outcomes for you to turn into.
If the proof is not enough then I suggest "Possibly 2-A" instead of soild 2-A. As for who will become 2-A, it will be God, Amara, Jack Kline and The Empty. For God, Amara, Jack scale to the entire cosmology for obvious reasons, the last one as Ultima said in his Thread.
Basically their 2-C will become 2-A because cosmology is 2-A
Abstract Existence (and Concept Embodiment/Manipulation Type 1)
Since both God and Amara have abstract existence. But they don't have types. I suggest Abstract existence type 1 will be fine with their true nature, since they are omnipresent as well as personifications of Darkness and Light, Creation and Destruction, Existence and Nothingness,... The death of one of the two causes reality to collapse, I believe that is enough.
Also about what type of Concept they represent, it will be Type 1 because God and Amara have existed from the beginning and then He created everything that exists.
They will also have Conceptual manipulation type 1 (Absorb, Seal, Healing, Destroy,...) since Chuck absorbed Amara to become both Light and Dark, he also sealed Amara since upon Creation.
As for Amara, she was able to heal God before his death, as well as nearly kill him (and all of reality). Jack (Last key) also has all of these since he absorbed the true nature of both and became the personification of the entire creation
Non Existence Physiology
As you can see in Ultima's Thread as well as their Profiles. Darkness and The Empty are both Void that existed before Creation, so they need types. Regarding Amara, she definitely doesn't have a soul because that thing never existed before because God aka Chuck (her brother) invented it long after sealing her. She also absorbs souls and turns them into nothingness (literal parts of her)
www.supernaturalwiki.com
www.supernaturalwiki.com
www.supernaturalwiki.com
CHUCK: That's because I don't have a soul.
METATRON: Right! But you invented them. You invented souls. Souls! Try shining a light on that. How did that make you feel?
CHUCK: Nauseous.
Considering that God is literally everything that exists, at least the cosmology part. She will lack such things as the mind that exists normally and since the mental planes where thoughts, ideas, feelings, archetypes, etc. exist as part of Creation itself and existence itself
www.supernaturalwiki.com
Conceptually, I'm not so sure about this. We have entities that represent concepts other than them (Death won't count because he's different from the rest of the horsemen). There is an interview where the author talks straight about their own concepts like "Death is dead but about Idea of death etc..." unfortunately I can't find it now.
But Chuck and Amara had a conversation about the fate of creation itself, Chuck wanted to destroy everything that exists and Amara referred to it as "every Kernel of existence". The word Kernel/Essence doesn't mean much without context but here we have about God doing it because he's so frustrated with those "Kernels" as "Carbon-based life" Just like in real life all life is made up of carbon instead of another substance, so it's a universal thing and maybe the concept here instead of just life.
Also both are abstract entities, the basic concepts of everything as well as the creator of all things and are almost omniscient so it makes sense for the word "Kernel" to have a conceptual meaning to them.
www.supernaturalwiki.com
Summary: Amara will have NEP (Nature 1 Aspect 1,2,3: her true nature is Nothingness which lacks everything of Creation that God created including soul, thoughts and concepts. She is the beginning and will be the end of them, when she will become all that there is)
For The Empty he will have the same NEP as Amara, just Nature 2 since he existed before both Amara and God
Transduality (Type 2)
This will be more complicated. Basically Duality exists in Supernatural (called The Balance). Shown in the relationship between Chuck and Amara, they are Creation and Destruction, Light and Darkness, Being and Nothingness, Yin and Yang. If either of them dies, Reality will disappear.
www.supernaturalwiki.com
But things don't stop there, Chuck explains that Existence is all about Balance. Light and Dark, good and evil, chocolate and peanut butter (?),... The Equalizer takes advantage of the balance/dualism of existence to work, even between anyone (even God himself). That is, Duality and Balance are not limited to just a few basic things, anyone and anything is involved with it and therefore has their own counterpart, directly called Yin and Yang.
www.supernaturalwiki.com
And Who will have Transdual (Type 2), God (last key) will have it since he absorbed Amara and became the balance itself. Jack (last key) will have it since he absorbed God's true nature and turned the latter into a normal human, The Empty will have it because he existed before Amara and God (created The Balance as progress)
www.supernaturalwiki.com
4-D existence (and above baseline 2-A range)
Pretty simple and self-explanatory. God, Amara, Jack, The Empty are all Cosmology themselves and so they will have Large Size (Type 9) and Higher-Dimensional Existence for their true form/nature, similar to The Empty, its speed will also be Omnipresent within the Empty (Shadow) because it is The Empty itself. Interestingly, when Jack spontaneously explodes like an explosion that can kill both God and Amara, Empty has never died or been injured except for its physical body, which Billie/Death explains is due to its sheer size so a 2-A explosion can only noise it instead of destroying or doing any significant damage. In other words, its size is much larger than baseline 2-A .
www.supernaturalwiki.com
In 5.04 of supernatural, Dean (MC) was sent into alternate future by an angel. In that future he was killed by his brother who was literally possessed by Satan and the world was engulfed in apocalypse, zombies,.. Wog explained it as an alternate universe model as well as possible future.
Another big picture aspect that comes into question with Edlund’s episode The End is whether angels can really travel into the future, or whether Zachariah was just messing with Dean’s head, Gabriel-style. “Yes, they can, but that’s a four-hour answer,” Edlund declares. “I don’t have the math to support it, either. But in my mind—and that’s all we’re dealing with right now—I think that the future is not predetermined, it’s non-constant, and the angels can travel to any number of possible futures. Predetermining something is a state of mind; it is not the law of the universe, so if you believe anything about the future, it will most likely become a self-fulfilling prophecy. That is true in human nature. If I think I’m going to lose the game, I’ll lose the game. If I think I’m going to win, there’s a good chance that I’ll win.
“Free will is like a viral experiment that God left on the desk and then he left, and the angels are like, ‘What the hell is this?’ It’s messing stuff up. Satan got too close to it and he’s got a free will issue. It’s a weird thing, so when Zach took Dean into the future, I believe they just went into one possible future. The future will roughly happen this way if Dean self-prophesizes this future, because it’s hinged on his choice. Zach had no impact when he went into that future, which is a pretty important detail about the underlying physics of it—he can witness a potential future, but he can’t change it or live there. It’s not a home for the people from the past; it’s a projection of what might happen. You can take a human like Dean, put him there, have him experience all this crap, get a punch in the face and get rolled down a hill, and then get brought back to the present, but that future will never be because Dean has been changed by the trip. We’re just talking about possible futures.”
Alternate Universe Models & Possible Futures: Authorial Intent in "The End"
This is primarily lengthy excerpts from the 5x04 commentary, as well as an excerpt from an interview with Edlund--which I've posted before--on time travel in "The End." Plus some commentary of my own...www.google.com
This implies that verse works under the MWI where the timeline branches into different timelines based on the uncertainty of the future and free will (essentially the ability to choose). As for the number of alternate futures (aka alternate universes), Wog confirmed it is infinite on twitter.
Is there any evidence to support that?
Yeah, right in the very same season 5 we were introduced to a monster (Pagan God) that can take on infinite forms.
What does that mean? Futures and alternate universes are created based on free will and the ability to choose as mentioned above, with infinite forms you will have infinite choices or possible outcomes for you to turn into.
If the proof is not enough then I suggest "Possibly 2-A" instead of soild 2-A. As for who will become 2-A, it will be God, Amara, Jack Kline and The Empty. For God, Amara, Jack scale to the entire cosmology for obvious reasons, the last one as Ultima said in his Thread.
That alone should be enough for them to be upgraded to 2-C.
Basically their 2-C will become 2-A because cosmology is 2-A
Abstract Existence (and Concept Embodiment/Manipulation Type 1)
Since both God and Amara have abstract existence. But they don't have types. I suggest Abstract existence type 1 will be fine with their true nature, since they are omnipresent as well as personifications of Darkness and Light, Creation and Destruction, Existence and Nothingness,... The death of one of the two causes reality to collapse, I believe that is enough.
Also about what type of Concept they represent, it will be Type 1 because God and Amara have existed from the beginning and then He created everything that exists.
They will also have Conceptual manipulation type 1 (Absorb, Seal, Healing, Destroy,...) since Chuck absorbed Amara to become both Light and Dark, he also sealed Amara since upon Creation.
As for Amara, she was able to heal God before his death, as well as nearly kill him (and all of reality). Jack (Last key) also has all of these since he absorbed the true nature of both and became the personification of the entire creation
Non Existence Physiology
As you can see in Ultima's Thread as well as their Profiles. Darkness and The Empty are both Void that existed before Creation, so they need types. Regarding Amara, she definitely doesn't have a soul because that thing never existed before because God aka Chuck (her brother) invented it long after sealing her. She also absorbs souls and turns them into nothingness (literal parts of her)
11.09 O Brother Where Art Thou? (transcript) - Super-wiki
11.21 All in the Family (Transcript) - Super-wiki
11.20 Don't Call Me Shurley (Transcript) - Super-wiki
METATRON: Right! But you invented them. You invented souls. Souls! Try shining a light on that. How did that make you feel?
CHUCK: Nauseous.
Considering that God is literally everything that exists, at least the cosmology part. She will lack such things as the mind that exists normally and since the mental planes where thoughts, ideas, feelings, archetypes, etc. exist as part of Creation itself and existence itself
15.17 Unity (transcript) - Super-wiki
Conceptually, I'm not so sure about this. We have entities that represent concepts other than them (Death won't count because he's different from the rest of the horsemen). There is an interview where the author talks straight about their own concepts like "Death is dead but about Idea of death etc..." unfortunately I can't find it now.
But Chuck and Amara had a conversation about the fate of creation itself, Chuck wanted to destroy everything that exists and Amara referred to it as "every Kernel of existence". The word Kernel/Essence doesn't mean much without context but here we have about God doing it because he's so frustrated with those "Kernels" as "Carbon-based life" Just like in real life all life is made up of carbon instead of another substance, so it's a universal thing and maybe the concept here instead of just life.
Also both are abstract entities, the basic concepts of everything as well as the creator of all things and are almost omniscient so it makes sense for the word "Kernel" to have a conceptual meaning to them.
15.17 Unity (transcript) - Super-wiki
Summary: Amara will have NEP (Nature 1 Aspect 1,2,3: her true nature is Nothingness which lacks everything of Creation that God created including soul, thoughts and concepts. She is the beginning and will be the end of them, when she will become all that there is)
For The Empty he will have the same NEP as Amara, just Nature 2 since he existed before both Amara and God
Transduality (Type 2)
This will be more complicated. Basically Duality exists in Supernatural (called The Balance). Shown in the relationship between Chuck and Amara, they are Creation and Destruction, Light and Darkness, Being and Nothingness, Yin and Yang. If either of them dies, Reality will disappear.
14.20 Moriah (transcript) - Super-wiki
(With an exasperated huff, CHUCK waves a hand and the Winchesters are downstairs.)
CHUCK: It’d be really not a good thing. Like ‘end of reality’ not good.
But things don't stop there, Chuck explains that Existence is all about Balance. Light and Dark, good and evil, chocolate and peanut butter (?),... The Equalizer takes advantage of the balance/dualism of existence to work, even between anyone (even God himself). That is, Duality and Balance are not limited to just a few basic things, anyone and anything is involved with it and therefore has their own counterpart, directly called Yin and Yang.
14.20 Moriah (transcript) - Super-wiki
And Who will have Transdual (Type 2), God (last key) will have it since he absorbed Amara and became the balance itself. Jack (last key) will have it since he absorbed God's true nature and turned the latter into a normal human, The Empty will have it because he existed before Amara and God (created The Balance as progress)
15.17 Unity (transcript) - Super-wiki
4-D existence (and above baseline 2-A range)
Pretty simple and self-explanatory. God, Amara, Jack, The Empty are all Cosmology themselves and so they will have Large Size (Type 9) and Higher-Dimensional Existence for their true form/nature, similar to The Empty, its speed will also be Omnipresent within the Empty (Shadow) because it is The Empty itself. Interestingly, when Jack spontaneously explodes like an explosion that can kill both God and Amara, Empty has never died or been injured except for its physical body, which Billie/Death explains is due to its sheer size so a 2-A explosion can only noise it instead of destroying or doing any significant damage. In other words, its size is much larger than baseline 2-A .
