The Commoner's Thread: The Death of SCP

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

In other words the site will simply ban blatant cases of abusing the tiering system, because...?

This is blatantly false.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Sir_Ovens @Mr. Bambu I'm geniunely curious. What evidence would you want to see that would make you agree with your opponent's viewpoint?

I would need objective proof that no SCP writer who was making something deliberately high-tier (satirical or otherwise) has managed to get an article past the threshold of legitimacy for our wiki (which is to say, +10 votes on the SCP wiki). Every article I linked in my thread has surpassed this.

This has always been the position of the SCP defenders until it wasn't, because it failed.

 

[Javenplayz253]

Remember chat despite the Scp drama here their unofficial theme song is still a banger

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Battleboarding isn’t exclusively unique to VSBW, but since you ask a theoretical scenario, then I will ask this in return. You think a author of his own story attempting to entertain the audience will actually bother to do such things and goes out of their own way at the risk of a story being boring to its own readers who want to enjoy a story they want?

If the author isn’t solely focused on the actual battleboarding stuff, and is more focused on their own story, characters, and plot, then it is for them to do.

It is up to the wiki’s standards and the staffs to decide.

Who says that’s going to boring? Why would introducing a new element to story make so much worse?

If the author is solely focused on powerscaling then it’s gonna produce slop. If it’s mostly focused on powerscaling but still has a solid narrative story and characters. Then there shouldn’t be a problem. Most of the very op scps have this so I don’t see the problem

So we just up the standards for upvotes. Simple as that

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Our current tiers weren't backed by any of the so called "powerscaling" articles or tales. They were from reputable authors who work on far more than just beeg number tier articles.

Na

I would need objective proof that no SCP writer who was making something deliberately high-tier (satirical or otherwise) has managed to get an article past the threshold of legitimacy for our wiki (which is to say, +10 votes on the SCP wiki). Every article I linked in my thread has surpassed this.

This has always been the position of the SCP defenders until it wasn't, because it failed.

https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/canon-hub

You could mention this particular article that talks about “canon” article as well, although it is something to note as well

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

I would need objective proof that no SCP writer who was making something deliberately high-tier (satirical or otherwise) has managed to get an article past the threshold of legitimacy for our wiki (which is to say, +10 votes on the SCP wiki). Every article I linked in my thread has surpassed this.

This has always been the position of the SCP defenders until it wasn't, because it failed.

@Sir_Ovens Has this always been your position?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

In other words the site will simply ban blatant cases of abusing the tiering system, because...?

Usually most well written stories don’t do that(atleast not intentionally) and even if the writer did have that intent, it doesn’t seem to matter if the story is soild. Like cultivation manwhas going crazy all the time

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Sir_Ovens Has this always been your position?

To clarify: this has been the position of the SCP defenders as a broad whole. When SCP deletion was discussed in the past, this was the position maintained. It may have been Ovens, it may not have been, but Ovens has not always been the main SCP guy.

 

[BLS]

Like cultivation manwhas going crazy all the time

Those are slop incarnate

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

To clarify: this has been the position of the SCP defenders as a broad whole. When SCP deletion was discussed in the past, this was the position maintained. It may have been Ovens, it may not have been, but Ovens has not always been the main SCP guy.

Can’t we just up are own standards to the point we’re no random powerscaler can easily bypass the 10 upvotes?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Who says that’s going to boring? Why would introducing a new element to story make so much worse?

If the author is solely focused on powerscaling then it’s gonna produce slop. If it’s mostly focused on powerscaling but still has a solid narrative story and characters. Then there shouldn’t be a problem. Most of the very op scps have this so I don’t see the problem

So we just up the standards for upvotes. Simple as that

It also has to do with the fact SCP, at its core, is internet based. It was born from the Internet after all. It didn’t came out of thin air with how this has been going.


Either way, it won’t necessarily mitigate the issue with how things has been handled for now.

Even with the license part doesn’t stop the fact that anyone can write a story as long they get approved is also another thing to been concerned of.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Can’t we just up are own standards to the point we’re no random powerscaler can easily bypass the 10 upvotes?

I don't think so, no. The issue isn't the level of upvotes, the issue is that powerscaling content is making it to begin with. We would still have no guarantee that powerscaling content wouldn't make it that high, we'd be practically at the same point as now. It could be less deliberately gamed, but I find it doubtful that it would prevent it entirely.

 

[Bobsican]

Usually most well written stories don’t do that(atleast not intentionally) and even if the writer did have that intent, it doesn’t seem to matter if the story is soild. Like cultivation manwhas going crazy all the time

So you're saying that if something like Barney got a outerversal cosmology it'd be deleted?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It also has to do with the fact SCP, at its core, is internet based. It was born from the Internet after all. It didn’t came out of thin air with how this has been going.


Either way, it won’t necessarily mitigate the issue with how things has been handled for now.

Even with the license part doesn’t stop the fact that anyone can write a story as long they get approved is also another thing to been concerned of.

We already have verse that have spawned from the internet. This shouldn’t be a problem

That’s why I’m suggesting we up are standards for upvotes so that doesn’t. At that point powerscaling slop is either gonna be discarded or turned into good writing. Not anyone would be able to just make an article

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I don't think so, no. The issue isn't the level of upvotes, the issue is that powerscaling content is making it to begin with. We would still have no guarantee that powerscaling content wouldn't make it that high, we'd be practically at the same point as now. It could be less deliberately gamed, but I find it doubtful that it would prevent it entirely.

I’d think so, the main cause for concern is that anyone with basic writing skills can make some powerscaling slop and get 10 upvotes. If we up are standards then it’s not like anyone can get a profile on here. And even they did make there article with the intention of powerscaling and got a bunch of upvotes through there own merit it wouldn’t even be slop at that point it just be a solid story with a proper narrative, story and characters.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

To offer a metaphor, consider this.

We have a food factory- let's say cereal- that has a leakage of lead getting into the food somehow. Nobody knows how, it cannot be stopped at the source. Scrambling to address the problem, people say "well, since we're detecting lead, what if we just don't sell the food with lead in it, and up the limit of detected lead allowed to be in something for it to be sold?" But the problem still exists, and these lead detection tools aren't 100% successful: it's just downright unreasonable to continue to allow that factory to function, to even risk that.

The same is true here. We have verified that these pages are actively getting upvoted by the SCP community, in spite of the peddled idea that SCP universally hates powerscalers. It's even something that our users or others can manipulate themselves, behind the scenes, by simply voting themselves: these are realistically extremely low votecounts to base something so important off of. Upping the votecount would address the immediate issue, but not the problem at its source, which will always exist for as long as SCP exists on our wiki.

 

[BLS]

I’d think so, the main cause for concern is that anyone with basic writing skills can make some powerscaling slop and get 10 upvotes. If we up are standards then it’s not like anyone can get a profile on here. And even they did make there article with the intention of powerscaling and got a bunch of upvotes through there own merit it wouldn’t even be slop at that point it just be a solid story with a proper narrative, story and characters.

I think the point being made here is that it is just possible to disguise your OC and get them to like High 1-A or something then post a profile on here, it doesn't matter if it's 20, 50 or 100 upvotes, the fact is that it is possible at all and you usually can't tell (Not talking about the in your face blatant ones).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Gun to my head, I probably would suggest 100 to 200 votes if some sort of forced agreement came about, or higher. Even 100 seems insanely gameable for something on our wiki with our otherwise stringent requirements on verse inclusion.

Luckily, I don't think it will come to this. I consider this lucky because I think it would be a terrible half-measure that doesn't address the core issue.

 

[Monsters_fight]

I disagree with the deletation of SCP

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

So you're saying that if something like Barney got a outerversal cosmology it'd be deleted?

The opposite

To offer a metaphor, consider this.

We have a food factory- let's say cereal- that has a leakage of lead getting into the food somehow. Nobody knows how, it cannot be stopped at the source. Scrambling to address the problem, people say "well, since we're detecting lead, what if we just don't sell the food with lead in it, and up the limit of detected lead allowed to be in something for it to be sold?" But the problem still exists, and these lead detection tools aren't 100% successful: it's just downright unreasonable to continue to allow that factory to function, to even risk that.

The same is true here. We have verified that these pages are actively getting upvoted by the SCP community, in spite of the peddled idea that SCP universally hates powerscalers. It's even something that our users or others can manipulate themselves, behind the scenes, by simply voting themselves: these are realistically extremely low votecounts to base something so important off of. Upping the votecount would address the immediate issue, but not the problem at its source, which will always exist for as long as SCP exists on our wiki.

Well to add to metaphor(since I’m not exactly great at these) they up the limit on decting lead to the point that even if there’s lead in it, it’s so insignificant that it doesn’t even matter

If we up the vote count to a 100 how gameable do you really think it’s going to be? Like there’s no way some powerscaler is getting 100 or so other powerscalers to upvote there article just to get a profile. And if they are it’s most certainly an extremely small minority. And if they get 100 votes on there own merits then it an’t even slop just good writing

I think the point being made here is that it is just possible to disguise your OC and get them to like High 1-A or something then post a profile on here, it doesn't matter if it's 20, 50 or 100 upvotes, the fact is that it is possible at all and you usually can't tell (Not talking about the in your face blatant ones).

It’s gotta be a pretty damm good disguise to get 100 upvotes. At that point it’s gonna be a soild story so I don’t see why it would matter

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Gun to my head, I probably would suggest 100 to 200 votes if some sort of forced agreement came about, or higher. Even 100 seems insanely gameable for something on our wiki with our otherwise stringent requirements on verse inclusion.

Luckily, I don't think it will come to this. I consider this lucky because I think it would be a terrible half-measure that doesn't address the core issue.

Well my voice doesn’t hold to much significance in the grand scheme of things so your probably right

 

[CurrySenpai]

I have to wonder if Bambu and co. have any actual evidence that there's more out there, because they repeat it as if it is a certainty despite not posting anything else. You can't just claim that there's more you haven't seen when you haven't looked for it in the first place.

Ugh, my heart. I think the water I drank was poisoned!

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If we up the vote count to a 100 how gameable do you really think it’s going to be?

I think a single well-placed YouTube video from someone with even a little bit of sway would be able to completely, foundationally alter the tiering of a verse that person has never contributed to, and I think the fact that this is true speaks for itself. This is an entirely unique issue to SCP compared to every other verse on our site.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I think a single well-placed YouTube video from someone with even a little bit of sway would be able to completely, foundationally alter the tiering of a verse that person has never contributed to, and I think the fact that this is true speaks for itself. This is an entirely unique issue to SCP compared to every other verse on our site.

When has this ever happened? And how often dose it even happen?

 

[BLS]

It’s gotta be a pretty damm good disguise to get 100 upvotes. At that point it’s gonna be a soild story so I don’t see why it would matter

I could be the love child of Shakespeare, George R. Martin, Tolkien + Stephen King, and if i submitted my smurf OC with passive High 1-A hax to SCP it would still be a pretty sh*tty thing to do, nothing to do with the Quality, more so the process and the intent behind it that is problematic.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

When has this ever happened? And how often dose it even happen?

You asked me "how gameable is that, really". I provided you with a very easy method of that being achieved. We're both speaking in hypotheticals here, I'm offering a hypothetical that matches your question and fits into a lot of the YouTube culture of sending followers to achieve some sort of change desired by the creator.

If instead you mean "when has someone gamed the system" then... look at the thread, I guess, I don't know.

 

[CurrySenpai]

When has this ever happened? And how often dose it even happen?

You’re pretending as if SCP a isn’t a popular piece of internet culture and that a sudden 100 upvote threshold will be an immediate indicator of quality.

SCP is not a paramount of writing, and pretending that just because a story got 100 upvotes and that it’s “good” means it can’t tier slop doesn’t fix the issue that it would still be tier slop.

This is becoming roundabout at this point, your solution just doesn’t work.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I could be the love child of Shakespeare, George R. Martin, Tolkien + Stephen King, and if i submitted my smurf OC with passive High 1-A hax to SCP it would still be a pretty sh*tty thing to do, nothing to do with the Quality, more so this process and the intent behind it that is problematic.

How? The main problem I’m seeing is that powerscaler/suggverse tier stuff can get in here. If you’re making some top tier book with insane powerscaling then it shouldn’t matter anymore then Kishimoto having Naruto bunch a moon beam.

 

[BLS]

How? The main problem I’m seeing is that powerscaler/suggverse tier stuff can get in here. If you’re making some top tier book with insane powerscaling then it shouldn’t matter anymore then Kishimoto having Naruto bunch a moon beam.

My dude, not the quality, it's the fact that i, a random individual can just do that right now is what is the issue. There is garbage like Velma and She-Hulk on here, Quality literally does not matter when it comes to picking verses.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

My dude, not the quality, it's the fact that i, a random individual can just do that right now is what is the issue. There is garbage like Velma and She-Hulk on here, Quality literally does not matter when it comes to picking verses.

yeah, we literally have Bleach on this wiki, quality is a non-factor

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Velma

I made her profile btw

 

[Javenplayz253]

I made her profile btw

YOU TRAITOR! /JK

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

You asked me "how gameable is that, really". I provided you with a very easy method of that being achieved. We're both speaking in hypotheticals here, I'm offering a hypothetical that matches your question and fits into a lot of the YouTube culture of sending followers to achieve some sort of change desired by the creator.

If instead you mean "when has someone gamed the system" then... look at the thread, I guess, I don't know.

An easy method is gaining a bunch of followers and telling them to go upvote their favorite scp so the VSBW accepts it? That’s easy?

You’re pretending as if SCP an isn’t a popular piece of internet culture and that a sudden 100 upvote threshold will be an immediate indicator of quality.

SCP is not a paramount of writing, and pretending that just because a story got 100 upvotes and that it’s “good” means it can’t tier slop doesn’t fix the issue that it would still be tier slop.

This is becoming roundabout at this point, your solution just doesn’t work.

Literally all of the examples bambu has posted have upvotes that don’t even reach 50 upvotes expect for the litterly joke scp, an scp that is satirical and a glossary. Your trying to tell me that 100 upvotes are essentially irrelevant to quality when we’ve seen the exact opposite.

My dude, not the quality, it's the fact that i, a random individual can just do that right now is what is the issue. There is garbage like Velma and She-Hulk on here, Quality literally does not matter when it comes to picking verses.

Uping the standard literally makes it so not anyone can do it. Well that seems to be part of the argument on why the verse should be sent to the shadow realm

 

[CurrySenpai]

An easy method is gaining a bunch of followers and telling them to go upvote their favorite scp so the VSBW accepts it? That’s easy?

No, but they could say "Guys... I made this cool SCP, check it out if you can!"

No one who wants a powerful SCP on the wiki is going to flat out say "vote my thing so it can get on vsbw" people aren't that stupid.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

No, but they could say "Guys... I made this cool SCP, check it out if you can!"

No one who wants a powerful SCP on the wiki is going to flat out say "vote my thing so it can get on vsbw" people aren't that stupid.

“Check it out” and “upvote it” are two different things. That still relies on the quality of the article or tale

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Literally all of the examples bambu has posted have upvotes that don’t even reach 50 upvotes expect for the litterly joke scp, an scp that is satirical and a glossary. Your trying to tell me that 100 upvotes are essentially irrelevant to quality when we’ve seen the exact opposite.

No, we haven't, not really. What we have seen is that natural selection won't do it, unless you consider the current Tier High 1-A or 0 stuff to be tampering (which I think is not an unreasonable belief to hold, given what we do know as objective truth).

The system as it stands only requires 10. So, many of these have 10. If someone is forcing them forward, there's hardly a reason to push for 50 or 100 or 1000 to make a bigger splash. They only need 10, that can be achieved by a small group of friends with a general lack of integrity. Your proposition only requires these people to do a bit more, it does not solve The Issue.

 

[CurrySenpai]

“Check it out” and “upvote it” are two different things. That still relies on the quality of the article or tale

They accomplish the same thing, the point is that people with influence could easily disguise their intentions to game this rule, playing into your point that, yes, it's easy to game.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

No, we haven't, not really. What we have seen is that natural selection won't do it, unless you consider the current Tier High 1-A or 0 stuff to be tampering (which I think is not an unreasonable belief to hold, given what we do know as objective truth).

The system as it stands only requires 10. So, many of these have 10. If someone is forcing them forward, there's hardly a reason to push for 50 or 100 or 1000 to make a bigger splash. They only need 10, that can be achieved by a small group of friends with a general lack of integrity. Your proposition only requires these people to do a bit more, it does not solve The Issue.

A “bit more” is getting 100 people to like something?

They accomplish the same thing, the point is that people with influence could easily disguise their intentions to game this rule, playing into your point that, yes, it's easy to game.

Then that means it’s just solid. Getting more exposure can kinda help but that doesn’t mean people are gonna inherently like it. And this is assuming a bunch of people are gonna become YouTubers get a decent following then get there articles more exposure which may or may not work out there favor just to “game” the system

 

[Mr. Bambu]

A “bit more” is getting 100 people to like something?

To my knowledge, the SCP wiki gets about 20-30 million views a month. 100 people is a droplet in a puddle by comparison, a number of people fairly easily achievable by anyone with, as I said prior, even a little bit of influence, yeah.

 

[Dodecatrihan]

To my knowledge, the SCP wiki gets about 20-30 million views a month. 100 people is a droplet in a puddle by comparison, a number of people fairly easily achievable by anyone with, as I said prior, even a little bit of influence, yeah.

You need a verified account to vote on an article (which is a pretty small portion of the people who use the wiki) and even then, most verified account don't vote on every article they see. John Anonymous can't affect the rating, they have logs of everyone who votes on everything.