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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Yo ultima, (Ik you arent really advocating for a change but still keeping op title as this because i mean what did you think would happen)

So overall I think all points made are great, however an issue that I am having is where you would rank further hierarchical dimensions as weve currently defined them

So from what ive seen, it seems you are proposing a tier below 11c to account for qualitatively inferior layers, and that 1A and above would change from talk of higher infinity dimensions to qualitatively superior layers, and that all higher infinity dimensions would be a sort of "high 1b+.

However i dont think that what effectively acts as all of low 1a, 1a, high 1a, and 0 currently to be shoved into high 1b+. What i think should happen is these sorts of higher levels of infinities with regards to dimensions and such, like inaccessible as described with high 1a (and basically the whole range of either high 1b through 0 or low 1a through 0) to be its own tier.

I think that this topic has been delved into quite heavily in many fictional verses as we see with the many characters in this tiering range (even though many characters should be in different spots due to the issues you mentioned in your post. Not all of them change).

So i basically think there should be 14 tier ranges instead of the 12 now. A range below 11 as you said, all of the current ones, transfinite dimensional tier range (which is what the current low 1a to 0 is), and then the qualitatively superior range above this that you refer to in your post. Then 0 of course. Or maybe not its own entire section but you get the gist

Thoughts on this?
 
demonwarrior2266 said:
Yo ultima, (Ik you arent really advocating for a change but still keeping op title as this because i mean what did you think would happen)

So overall I think all points made are great, however an issue that I am having is where you would rank further hierarchical dimensions as weve currently defined them

So from what ive seen, it seems you are proposing a tier below 11c to account for qualitatively inferior layers, and that 1A and above would change from talk of higher infinity dimensions to qualitatively superior layers, and that all higher infinity dimensions would be a sort of "high 1b+.

However i dont think that what effectively acts as all of low 1a, 1a, high 1a, and 0 currently to be shoved into high 1b+. What i think should happen is these sorts of higher levels of infinities with regards to dimensions and such, like inaccessible as described with high 1a (and basically the whole range of either high 1b through 0 or low 1a through 0) to be its own tier.

I think that this topic has been delved into quite heavily in many fictional verses as we see with the many characters in this tiering range (even though many characters should be in different spots due to the issues you mentioned in your post. Not all of them change).

So i basically think there should be 14 tier ranges instead of the 12 now. A range below 11 as you said, all of the current ones, transfinite dimensional tier range (which is what the current low 1a to 0 is), and then the qualitatively superior range above this that you refer to in your post. Then 0 of course. Or maybe not its own entire section but you get the gist

Thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
The amount of verses we have that use actual cardinality as a way to get to 1-A instead of metaphysical transcendence is countable on two hands. Shoving all of them into High 1-B+ is eminently reasonable, and an entire tier section for them is utterly superflous.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
As I said, that isn't even a staff thread.
Click to expand...
And? That was big enough to be a staff thread, it simply wasn't. There isn't much of a difference anyway, since threads regardless require staff input to be passed.

A Bureaucrat (at the time) confirming that DT can't just wall a verse revision means that likely applies to any thread. As it SHOULD.

It would be incredibly bad standard if DT's position allows him to halt whatever he doesn't agree with on his own.
 
Phoenks said:
And? That was big enough to be a staff thread, it simply wasn't. There isn't much of a difference anyway, since threads regardless require staff input to be passed.

A Bureaucrat (at the time) confirming that DT can't just wall a verse revision means that likely applies to any thread. As it SHOULD.

It would be incredibly bad standard if DT's position allows him to halt whatever he doesn't agree with on his own.
Click to expand...
Bureaucrats are only allowed to veto staff threads about wiki policy, not merely big, controversial CRTs that were placed in the staff forum to better moderate them.
 
I do agree with Phoenks though. Regardless of veto power and all of that, DT shouldn't be able to stonewall a revision where virtually he is the only opposing force (He isn't, Agnaa is another which is why I said virtually the only opposing force). There is putting him to a higher approving standard as Bureaucrat, and then there is that crap which would potentially cause the entire revision to be delayed for months even with virtually every other staff being in agreement with it.
 
I mean, is much drama even occurring here in the first place? It sounds like people are saying that it shouldn't be possible for one bureaucrat to stop a thread with near-unanimous approval. Nothing really bad is happening.
 
Flowman777 said:
I mean, is much drama even occurring here in the first place? It sounds like people are saying that it shouldn't be possible for one bureaucrat to stop a thread with near-unanimous approval. Nothing really bad is happening.
Click to expand...
It's more so about what will come after the upgrade is accepted

Also I hate the upgrade so I am sad.
 
Ah.

Why do you hate the upgrade to qualitative superiority so much? For the reasons others like DontTalkDT have stated or do you have other reasons? Just wondering if you have something new to add.
 
Flowman777 said:
Why do you hate the upgrade to qualitative superiority so much? For the reasons others like DontTalkDT have stated or do you have other reasons? Just wondering if you have something new to add.
Click to expand...
In my opinion R>F by itself shouldn't even grant Low 1-C without proper beyond space-time statements, not to mention that Idk many verses that would use an R>F statement to show a 1-A character instead of a Low 1-C, so far most i've known, even the big ones, focus more on higher dimensional portrayal.
I just feel like making R>F a big ol jump to 1-A is tiktok levels of goonery and should never come to pass, but since everyone is agreeing and DT is getting piled on, ig the wiki will go down this path.
 
the problem is there's no correct answer here, DTs suggestions however are mildly worse than Ultima's.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
The amount of verses we have that use actual cardinality as a way to get to 1-A instead of metaphysical transcendence is countable on two hands. Shoving all of them into High 1-B+ is eminently reasonable, and an entire tier section for them is utterly superflous.
Click to expand...
I'm curious, which are those two verses?
 
Flowman777 said:
Eh disagree there. It seems like Hasty12345 is saying that no solution works perfectly right rather than saying to just use a middle between DT and Ultima's without giving serious consideration as to whether the middle solution works sufficiently right.
Click to expand...
that's what I was saying
 
Flowman777 said:
Eh disagree there. It seems like Hasty12345 is saying that no solution works perfectly right rather than saying to just use a middle between DT and Ultima's without giving serious consideration as to whether the middle solution works sufficiently right.
Click to expand...
"No solution works perfectly" is an obvious thing that's useless to even mention.
 
I do have the same issues as Arceus if that's the case. Although I think having clear separations between qualitative and quantitative superiorities is a good thing.

Good thing I actively avoid verses who deals with Tier 1. (Until my verse gets invaded by wankers).
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Because certain fandoms would abuse their large numbers to get upgrades through even though the logic was faulty.
Click to expand...
I highly doubt any staff is more or less biased than an average member.

I'm pretty sure other powerscaling sites have a purely democratic system and they haven't gone to hell yet.
 
Phoenks said:
"Strong objections" is a bit funny. I mean they disagree hugely, but the actual arguments they make don't seem well supported or great enough to hold back the proposal tbh.

DT has been clobbered multiple times now, and Agnaa's post was pretty low-effort imo.

The current staff vote is hugely in Ultima's favor, with many administrators on that side.
Click to expand...
Agnaa's response was almost 1:1 with the assumed counterpoints that were already addressed in the OP too lol
 
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