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The Chosen One vs Mareey Sue

Mareey Sue is more powerful but Anakin massively outskills, so he just does a real jump flip into her and cuts her in 2.
 
Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.
 
Kylo Ren was never as strong as Vader. It's an important part of his character, he never reached Vader's level.
 
How very unreliable. Leia's only feat was to best Luke once and complete her Jedi training, then she did nothing about it for years. Both Anakin and Obi Wan have many feats far above that and their fight was extremely even.
 
The Mustafar duel ended up with Obi-Wan being victorious only because of Vader's overconfidence (and stupidity for that matters). Leia is strong but at the time she trained Rey she was old and hadn't practiced the Force or the lightsaber for a long time, even more so than Obi-Wan when he spent 20 years hiding on Naboo. Now of course, she would still have a notable degree of skills but still, can't be comparable to a Anakin who was at his peak at the time.
 
Fairly certain there is a statement from George or the choreo director for RotS that puts Anakin and Yoda in the same ballpark and above the likes of Windu skill wise which means he utterly dominates in a saber fight.
 
Honestly, i don't think Anakin can be compared to Windu or even Yoda, no. That statement isn't probably canon. However, Anakin is superior to almost all the Jedi of his time with the exception of Obi-Wan, Windu and Yoda.
 
I can see the argument for him being below Yoda and Windu but why would he not be superior to Obi-Wan? We know for a fact that Anakin was ridiculously nerfed against Obi-Wan and still matched him in skill despite having similar stats and countered. Then there is every fight with Dooku with Anakin doing far better than Obi. Anakin > Dooku > drugged and blind Dooku > Asajj and 2 Nightsisters > Asajj who is always comparable to Obi. Lets not forget that Obi is comparable to (but better than) Grievous who even Ashoka can fight by the time she left the Order and Anakin is far beyond her.
 
I never said he was below Obi-Wan, i just said he wasn't exactly above him. They're comparable to me (though Anakin was getting stronger and stronger at the time of his fall) otherwise Anakin/Vader wouldn't have lost his duel onf Mustafar and would have immediately defeated him.
 
In terms of skills, Anakin should theorically stomp (although Rey DID defeat a retired Luke). But in terms of 'raw power', Luke outright said he saw the Force in Her only another time (with Kylo Ren)
 
Anakin broke through Dooku's stance and defenses, and Dooku easily outskilled Obi-Wan.

The only display of skill by Rey and Kylo wouldn't be enough for them to outskill a Padawan. They basically had the skill of two 8 year olds who just found two sticks in their backyard and started hamming against each other.

About Force prowess, I don't really know.
 
Xantospoc Was he really talking about Rey ? Cause according to most sources, he was talking about what he felt in Ben (the Dark Side) before thinking about killing him in his sleep and apparently, the other time he saw that kind of power, it was when Palpatine was cooking him on the DS.

ArgosaxDespair : I can't disagree with that Rey and even Kylo for an extent but at least he had some degree of actual real skills. It's shown during the duel onf the Death Star. He's extremely calm and composed, has no difficulty to counter Rey's attack and Rey is on the defensive for almost the entire fight and the only reason she stabbed him is because of Leia. Then again, i don't really disagree wth you in general (Rey has basically the level of a starting Padawan). Especially since the duel has almost no choregraphy at all.

Well the Mustafar duel shows that Anakin and Obi-Wan are pretty equals at least in terms of lightsaber skills. Heck, the brief Force Push "duel" they have shows that they're also kind of comparable in terms of Force power (though it seems Obi-Wan has more difficulties to keep up).
 
IMHO Anakin was nerfed in that duel. We know that Anakin is superior in both skill and Force powers to people above Obi-Wan, and even Obi-Wan states that Anakin was stronger. Anakin was either nerfed or the conflict within him in Mustafar made him weaker than before.
 
Eficiente said:
Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.
Click to expand...
Wasn't he outright implied to be stronger then Kylo?

I'd vote Anakin though for superior experience/skill
 
ArgosaxDespair said:
IMHO Anakin was nerfed in that duel. We know that Anakin is superior in both skill and Force powers to people above Obi-Wan, and even Obi-Wan states that Anakin was stronger. Anakin was either nerfed or the conflict within him in Mustafar made him weaker than before.
Click to expand...
Anakin is stronger but not more skilled. Obi-Wan may be the most skilled Lightsaber duelist in all SW, the part of their characters where the latter always strategies things whereas Anakin doesn't care to take some unnecessary damage in battle should say something, to avoid a more complex argument.
 
@Eficiente, let's say Obi-Wan is more skilled, smarter and experienced even though he fought enemies below Anakin to a stalemate, somehow avoiding Anakin's hax of overcoming even the universe after becoming enraged, he would still lose in a Force confrontation due to Anakin being stronger. Their Force powers are equal in the duel, and that's the inconsistent part of the duel because suddenly Obi-Wan is equal to Anakin in everything, even matching him in saber skills, which was unreal because Anakin had better feats in the Clone Wars.

I don't know if this is part of the canon or not, but I remember reading about Dooku, Yoda, Palpatine and Windu being the best duelists in Star Wars.
 
I have no idea what you mean by "somehow avoiding Anakin's hax of overcoming even the universe after becoming enraged". He lost in a Force confrontation, they both used the Force on each other in the duel, got blown away and Anakin recovered faster and quickly approached Obi-Wan with flips to attack him, only then Obi-Wan recovered to dodge that. Their gap in power is not super massive so this is good. I feel like the "he fought enemies below Anakin to a stalemate" is a bit misleading, but to argue all the context that would be would be derailment for this thread.
 
Sorry, I should've been more specific. Anakin's rage boosts usually makes him far stronger than characters that could match him before his rage boost, and Obi-Wan appears to keep up with Anakin even while Anakin is being boosted by anger during the entire fight.

There would be no Force confrontation for that long. One could make an excellent argument on how Obi-Wan is more skilled, but saying that Anakin's Force powers are only slightly superior to Obi-Wan's would go against the entirety of the Clone Wars.
 
Eficiente said:
Canon Vader is more powerful than Anakin, Kylo did some sh*t that made him above Vader, Mareey Sue is at least = to that.
Click to expand...
What?

No Canon Vader is Stronger than Kylo by a Bit
 
The entire point about Kylo Ren is that he wants to reach Vader's level, something he never accomplished. He is powerful but never reached his grandfather level. That's, again, the entire point of the KR persona. Heck, even in terms of fighting skills and experience, Vader is far beyond his grandson (wich is...kind of logical considering how long he was trained both as a Jedi and as a Dark Lord of the Sith).

As for the Mustafar duel....i don't have a definitvie answer. The theory that Anakin/Vader would have won without the higher ground is more or less is probably what would have happened anyway (some alternate versions of the fight shows this, like the non-canon ending in the PS2 video game where Vader dodge Obi-Wan strike while jumping and stabbs him in his back before he can truly react. Non-canon i know).

My best theory about why Anakin/Vader didn't stomped Obi-Wan is basically the classic "Villains don't use their powers". Anakin/Vader almost only attack with his lightsaber (the Force push thing is literally the only moment where he uses the Force besides grabbing his lightsaber at another moment before that) and Obi-Wan was able to keep up because of his mastery over Soresu. The Force Push moment is likely (as i said) as classic moment where the villain doesn't use his full power (because he thinks he doesn't need to or because he wants to kill his enemy slowly) while the hero uses his full potential and the rest of the fight is just lightsaber, no Force powers. Anakin/Vader just used lightsaber, wich Obi-Wan can counter thanks to his own skills. Had he decided to use more or his Force powers, i think he would have won and without too much difficulties. So in truth, no real leveling explanation or things about Ob-Wan being more powerful or Anakin getting nerfed or something like that to me. Just the usual villain who doesn't use his full potential because he wants to kill his foe with his bare hands or something.

Again, it's just a theory and not necessarily the best one but i don't think there's a really good explanation for this anyway.
 
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