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The Binding of Isaac Repentance Upgrade *Spoilers*

Armorchompy said:
Just because you cannot see the symbolism in previous endings doesn't mean it isn't there.
Click to expand...
I've never implied there wasn't symbolism, but the endings are fairly straight forward and unambiguous before, saying to not take it at face value when the previous endings are directly referenced and obvious as day, with them even spelling it out in ending 20 about him thinking he is the devil, baffles me. Ending 22 references Hush/Delirium/Mother ending's as part of his story, the evidence implying everything is an hallucination is overanalysing dialogue

I'm tired to tell the truth, i will call it quits for today
 
I don't think talking about this any more will get us anywhere, I've made my argument and you've made yours, I've already explained that this is ending is different from the previous ones and Edmund's interpretation is perfectly viable, if you wanna disagree with that then cheers, I ain't budging.

But, something in a previous illusion being shown as fake still doesn't prevent it from being an illusion, that much is very clear.
 
Armorchompy said:
The ending implies it's all fake and Isaac is dying as I have explained already, it's just a little bit subtle cause Edmund wanted the players to come to their own conclusions which clearly was a mistake as we're seeing here. But to recap:
  • Isaac coughs as he speaks and his voice is clearly weaker and meeker than in the other cutscenes where he's voice acted.
  • Dad asks him if he's "getting sleepy yet" which clearly is meant to imply he's getting closer to death.
  • The way everything fades out at the end, like Isaac's mind is finally out of oxygen.
  • Dad ran away from his responsibilities in the past despite being fully aware Mom was insane, so it wouldn't make much sense if he came back.
  • The various messed up things in TBOI which dad would have certainly objected to while Isaac was telling him the story.
Now none of these "prove" anything, but together they paint together a nice picture which fits in perfectly with Edmund's statement that Isaac is dead. Death of the Author is a really stupid claim to make about a man whose life is so deeply reflected in this game he's made, he's gone on record saying that Isaac's lore was always there in his head since day 1 and it's a deeply important game to him on a personal level so to assume that he'd just somehow get it wrong after 11 years of writing it is really ******* arrogant.

Also, it doesn't "decanonize" shit as fictional. It decanonizes Isaac's dream of them as fictional. The fact that Isaac's body is mentioned proves absolutely nothing about the state of the real one.
Click to expand...
I think these points make sense to me.

It's not like the author is clarifying on someone's power level or whatever. The author is speaking about the main lore of the story. You can't claim death of the author to disregard it, unless it is directly contradicted in canon. But from what I've seen till now, it's supported in canon too.
 
Can somebody explain the arguments here please?
 
We're mostly debating on whether Death of the Author comes into play, which I believe it does not.
 
Well it's been debated at length but the setting of the entire game is a dying hallucination for this kid named Isaac, and the final ending seems to show that it was actually a bedtime story he was making up with his dad, but the author has stated that that too is a hallucination and Isaac is dead, and some context clues hint at that as well. That's the gist of it.
 
Armorchompy said:
Well it's been debated at length but the setting of the entire game is a dying hallucination for this kid named Isaac, and the final ending seems to show that it was actually a bedtime story he was making up with his dad, but the author has stated that that too is a hallucination and Isaac is dead, and some context clues hint at that as well. That's the gist of it.
Click to expand...
Shouldnt be atleast probally???
 
Okay. Thank you. And what are the intended revisions here based on that?
 
Oh also if it was a hallucination it would destroy the meaning of that ending as isaac accepting himself but if is a hallucination then he just dies without archiving jack shit
 
Livinmeme said:
Okay and why is that??? by that logic everything can be debunked by "is a hallucination"
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Yeah, that's the whole point. It's an unreliable narrator, is that something you're not familiar with?
Livinmeme said:
Oh also if it was a hallucination it would destroy the meaning of that ending as isaac accepting himself but if is a hallucination then he just dies without archiving jack shit
Click to expand...
He does accept himself, and that means his subconscious makes him imagine a happy ending. But yes, he dies, it's not a happy ending, it was never meant to be, it's just a bit more bittersweet than before because Isaac at least manages to die happy. If you think it "destroys the meaning" because he "didn't achieve jack shit" then you probably should be concerning yourself with more straightforward kinds of stories, I thought it was a beautiful ending.
 
He does accept himself, and that means his subconscious makes him imagine a happy ending. But yes, he dies, it's not a happy ending, it was never meant to be, it's just a bit more bittersweet than before because Isaac at least manages to die happy. If you think it "destroys the meaning" because he "didn't achieve jack shit" then you probably should be concerning yourself with more straightforward kinds of stories, I thought it was a beautiful ending.
Click to expand...
My man i aint corcening about literally my favorite stories of all times (probally??) is about hobos murdering and violating physics by being to pretentius (they also get murdered quite often), oh yeah you also need to give evidence than that is a hallucination
 
Livinmeme said:
My man i aint corcening about literally my favorite stories of all times (probally??) is about hobos murdering and violating physics by being to pretentius, oh yeah you also need to give evidence than that is a hallucination
Click to expand...
Word of god says it + Extra evidence I have already pointed out multiple times + There is no concrete evidence against it since "it's an illusion" is a perfectly feasible event in the story. I have already explained this multiple times, please try to keep up.
 
Giving Isaac plot manipulation by being the one who writes the story, which I opposed because I do not think that he is consciously writing it.
 
Armorchompy said:
Giving Isaac plot manipulation by being the one who writes the story, which I opposed because I do not think that he is consciously writing it.
Click to expand...
That is passive plot manip then he is still writting what happens in the story not consciously but still
 
Livinmeme said:
That is passive plot manip then he is still writting what happens in the story not consciously but still
Click to expand...
Yes, but limited since he doesn't have direct control over it. Although I am only neutral about it since I do not know the specifics of the power too well.
 
Armorchompy said:
Giving Isaac plot manipulation by being the one who writes the story, which I opposed because I do not think that he is consciously writing it.
Click to expand...
Okay. I think that you make sense to me.
 
That is a good point.

Maybe "Limited Plot Manipulation" would work then?
 
So should we use "Limited Plot Manipulation" as a compromise solution then?
 
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