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The Big Bleach Speed CRT

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Damage3245 said:
Where is it that they're faster than his Bankai's attack speed?

They can be faster than Chojiro's Shunpo speed without necessarily being faster than his Bankai.
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Have you rolled out that Gin’s bankai follows this same formula? Gin could be moving at LS from Hisagi’s negacion light feat while his sword contraction can be mach 500 on top of his LS body movement. A thing to be considered. 🤔
 
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i have a problem with this High Hypersonic (Blitzed three Lieutenants at once, one who, despite being a Lieutenant, is a Captain level Shinigami, should be five times slower than his Bankai speed), Massively Hypersonic with Bankai (Can blitz Byakuya)

the lowest value for high hypersonic is mach 25 and x 5 for bankai should give mach 125
the current accepted speed for bankai ichigo is mach 107 which is the mid end
we should use the high end as this would contradict the bankai multiplier
not to mention ichigo was already high hypersonic before his training so he is higher than baseline high hypersonic making the current rating of mach 107 even more flawed
 
cant we use the high end as ikkaku<weaker ichigo<renji<weaker ichigo<<kenpachi=<weaker ichigo<the ichigo that blitzed 3 lieutenants
i think it is safe to use the high end
 
We don't use either end. We use the value that Renji scales to which is mentioned at the top of the blog post I linked.
 
I think Sigurd had a good point about Gin’s Zanpakuto being the fastest which would make it faster than Chojiro’s aka faster than lightning.

Also think about this, Uryu has Sub-Relativistic perceptions, Ichigo should have that level of perceptiveness as well being that he’s far faster than Uryu and Ichigo has demonstrated phenomenal sensory capabilities. Gin’s Bankai extends and contracts faster than Ichigo can perceive.
 
@Arc7Kuroi; Gin also said that his Bankai was Mach 500 at the same time that he said it was the fastest Zanpakuto.

If you're arguing that it is unlikely that Gin would have told Aizen a different figure because he'd be blowing his cover by only lying to Aizen and not to Ichigo, then why would he also claim that his supposedly Mach 500 Bankai is the fastest if he's supposed to know that it isn't?

Also - while Chojirou's Bankai does shoot lightning, the speed of lightning can vary IRL. For the wiki's purpose we assume a certain figure for lightning speeds but that shouldn't be used as proof in the verse itself.
 
I don't think you need to mention MHS and MHS + in Gin's profile, it would be like Delta's profile, putting her as FTL and Lightspeed with beam
 
That'd probably be a good thing to add to Delta's profile tbh. Otherwise some people might assume that her beams are FTL by looking at the profile on face value.

@USklaverei; I recommend putting a sandbox together listing the redundant keys and we can go through them together later.
 
Yes, for example, swords have two keys, one for base and resurrection, this is unnecessary.
Characters like Shunsui also don't need a key for the SS arc, there should be two that would be from FKT and war.
 
I agree. Also, some characters like Bambietta Basterbine has a base key and a Vollstandig key - but all her fights have been with Vollstandig active, so there's no point in her having two keys.
 
By the way, this is unrelated to speed but I noticed that Bazz-B scales to Large Country level for scaling to Yama, but Yama in Shikai scales to Country level.

@USklaverei; I think you were the one who changed him to High 6-B instead of 6-B.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Arc7Kuroi; Gin also said that his Bankai was Mach 500 at the same time that he said it was the fastest Zanpakuto.

If you're arguing that it is unlikely that Gin would have told Aizen a different figure because he'd be blowing his cover by only lying to Aizen and not to Ichigo, then why would he also claim that his supposedly Mach 500 Bankai is the fastest if he's supposed to know that it isn't?

Also - while Chojirou's Bankai does shoot lightning, the speed of lightning can vary IRL. For the wiki's purpose we assume a certain figure for lightning speeds but that shouldn't be used as proof in the verse itself.
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I don't really care to push the point further, but Gin specifically says "it doesn't extend as fast as I said" which the only time he says how fast it extends is when he says Mach 500, since saying "fastest" does not tell us how fast it is directly.

However, if Byakuya is MHS+ he needs to be Sub-Rel with hands, because 2*(your MHS+ in the sandbox) is like .01c or sumn like that.
 
My proposal for Zommari would be:

"At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" (Claims to possess the fastest Sonido among the Espada. Gave Byakuya some trouble during their duel, forcing him to use a special technique to escape).

He would have the same rating for his Resureccion form since he becomes practically stationary after he transforms and doesn't exhibit any growth in speed (Byakuya even mocks him for his self-proclaiment of being the fastest Espada at this point).

And my proposal for Byakuya would be:

"At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" (Blitzed Zommari to deal him a killing blow), Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed when controlling his Bankai (Doubles the attack speed of his Bankai when directly controlling it).
 
Damage3245 said:
By the way, this is unrelated to speed but I noticed that Bazz-B scales to Large Country level for scaling to Yama, but Yama in Shikai scales to Country level.

@USklaverei; I think you were the one who changed him to High 6-B instead of 6-B.
Click to expand...
I might be wrong, but I believe Bazz's High 6-B comes from fighting post-Royal Guard training Renji off-screen, at least, that's the only thing I can think of.
 
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Why can't this be used for Bankai Ichigo's speed?

It's not like it's a hype-text title or anything. It is just comparing Ichigo's movement to lightning. Which is backed fairly well by Byakuya needing to stake Ichigo to the ground in place to be able to hit him with a lightning kido. The god-like statement just implies that at that time in the verse, lightning is extremely fast.

Gin's Mach 500 statement is no contradiction since he says he lied, and it is highly probable that he's refering to Mach 500 when he says he lied.

If anything this databook statement isn't reiterating a potential lie, which makes it much more valid in my books.
 
@Purgy; I can see what you mean with that, but Bazz-B is scaling to Continent level for that apparently.

@Arc7Kuroi; "like lightning" is an extremely common hyperbole. There aren't any supporting feats for it from Ichigo at that time, nor from anybody else in the verse.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Arc7Kuroi; "like lightning" is an extremely common hyperbole. There aren't any supporting feats for it from Ichigo at that time, nor from anybody else in the verse.
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This is disingenuous.

Depending on how you interpret the Ichigo cutting all the petals feat it can vary from MHS to Relativistic.

The speed feat that basically everyone upscales from is a Mach ~7 feat that scales to 4th seats. So our only real feat is a massive lowball.

So it's more like there aren't any supporting feats you accept.

Also, prove it's hyperbole. I don't care what other fiction use "like lightning" for, in this instance it's used as a descriptor of Ichigo's attack speed.

I'll respond to your Zommari thing later.
 
Should the fact that Byakuya was hadling Yammy better than ichigo post-res proves that Zommari was actually the fastest espada?
 
@Arc7Kuroi; we don't take databook as gospel truth. We treat it case by case and in this case, there needs to be supporting evidence.

The same "like lightning" or "lightning-fast" statements have been thrown out for other series such as Naruto.

@Tyri456; Ichigo wasn't really having any issue with keeping up with Yammy until he failed to activate his mask.
 
Zoro21043 said:
cuz uryu's brain managed to process that speed and ichigo isn't lower than uryu he should also be able to perceive things that fast
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Uryu claims to be able to manage it because of his sensitivity to Spiritual Pressure. Ichigo isn't necessarily at the same level as him even if he does have faster combat speed.
 
I am aware of that, but that is what is letting him sense it and his brain is what processes it so that speed is something he can process, why wouldnt ichigo be able to process something that fast if uryu can?
 
Why would he? Ichigo having faster combat speed doesn't not prove he has faster perception speed than Uryu.
 
im not saying ichigo should have faster perception because his combat speed is higher,no in bleach perception speed>combat speed as far as I am aware of as yoruichi perceived yammys cero but couldnt dodge it
I am saying that there is nothing proving uryu>ichigo's perception the argument of him being capable of doing that thanks to him being sensitive to spiritual pressure doesnt work as it is his brain that processes that speed and its common sense that ichigo > uryu and the stronger you are you can perceive things previously impossible like ichigo previously unable to see byakuyas movements to then having no problem doing so and ichigo is superior to uryu
 
Damage3245 said:
Sure, but that's conflating AP with Speed.

That's like arguing Zommari must have the highest AP out of the Espada if he has the highest speed.
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Those are exception because are stated to be so, Though.

We are talking about pretty standard Shinigami. My notion is that both scenario, or support the fact that Zommari is actually fast af since Byakuya was strong af;
Or the fact that Byakuya is even stronger than that Ichigo.

I think Byakuya should scale to mhs+ in virtue of fighting the fastest espade which open the possibility to him to scale to mhs+, and performing better than Ichigo which scales even Higher would just support that notion.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Arc7Kuroi; we don't take databook as gospel truth. We treat it case by case and in this case, there needs to be supporting evidence.

The same "like lightning" or "lightning-fast" statements have been thrown out for other series such as Naruto.
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The supporting evidence is that Byakuya only felt that he could comfortably hit Ichigo with a lightning based kido if he pinned Ichigo in place and then fired it off at point blank range. This proves that Byakuya, after fighting Ichigo, feels that lightning based kido aren't guaranteed to hit him unless he is somewhat immobilized. This I believe is the strongest piece of evidence as it relies the least on assumptions made in calcs.

The databook also says "Ichigo intensely swipes away all of the blades coming at him" going back to the Ichigo swatting the petals feat implies Ichigo hit every single petal, swipes implies contact there is no mention or indication of shockwaves. Which going by the original calc, https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:USklaverei/sandbox, nets us Mach 320 which is well within the 1e5-14e5 m/s speed of lightning.

We are also aware that fodder Shinigami have Zanpakuto that can either A) grant them lightning-speed movement or B) grant them lightning-speed attacks from CFYOW II. Which further supports that the ability to attack at lightning-speed is nothing special in Bleach. It makes no narrative sense for fodder Shinigami's Zanpakuto (ones without release states) to be massively faster than Captain level fighters.

So there exists supporting evidence.

Again, I don't care about the "like lightning" statements for other series.
 
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@Arc7Kuroi; You know that particualr Kido has never been described as possessing lightning speed, right? Or the qualities of lightning. It's just the name of it. The databook description for it just describes it as "Gathers high-density spiritual energy at the fingertip and discharges it all at once."
 
Damage3245 said:
@Arc7Kuroi; You know that particualr Kido has never been described as possessing lightning speed, right? Or the qualities of lightning. It's just the name of it. The databook description for it just describes it as "Gathers high-density spiritual energy at the fingertip and discharges it all at once."
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The attack is called Pale Lightning. Give me a good reason to assume it isn't lightning-based.

Also, address my other two points, because the way you scale Bleach has fodder Shinigami able to blitz Byakuya when using his hands.
 
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