The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Am I the only one that sees a problem with this?

Nop

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I actually have a theory about the Mach 500 thing that I shared with my friends a few weeks ago. Basically it's how Gin can be telling the truth but at the same time also not telling the truth either.

The idea comes from how Gin is talking about his Zanpakutou and he mentions "Hey, do you know what I was called when i was younger?" He then after that mentions his Bankai, I believe he is actually still referring to that time back when he possibly just awakened his Bankai, so his Zanpakutou could have told him or the person who saw it managed to measure it.

There's also Aizen and KS to factor in as well in most cases concerning Arrancars and Soul Reapers. Especially in Gin's case, Gin can't just freely train his Bankai without being aware that Aizen is more than likely nearby watching him.

So this can be how Mach 500 makes sense...It is exactly that but at the same time it isn't because Gin is going by what he actually knows and could know at the time but because he couldn't have free time to experiment on it he never really got a update on that infomation

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

.....what?..

 

[Ovrhide]

.....what?..

Same reaction...

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; so all that would be required there is to change Gin to: Massively Hypersonic+ (Superior to Post-Resurrection Bankai Ichigo, who was struggling to keep up with him), Massively Hypersonic attack speed with Bankai (His Bankai extends and retracts at Mach 500), Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed with Buto Renjin (Buto Renjin doubles his Bankai's attack speed)

Right? Or am I missing something else.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Last I checked he beat Ichigo with the hollow mask as well.

I'm not sure why you removed that from his profile?

 

[Damage3245]

Ichigo could fight against him with his Bankai. If Gin was 5 times faster than his Bankai self, there'd be no way that Ichigo would be keeping up with him.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Ichigo could fight against him with his Bankai. If Gin was 5 times faster than his Bankai self, there'd be no way that Ichigo would be keeping up with him.

Huh? You took liberty of removing that scaling yourself which was already on the profile. I don't know what you mean here but he was literally stomping Ichigo with his mask and with just Bankai.

Why exactly can't Gin be that fast when we literally see Ichigo on the floor defeated?

This is literally something discussed in the last CRT.

 

[Damage3245]

The fight between Ichgio was his mask on and Gin is off-screen. The fight between Bankai Ichigo and Gin is on-screen.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but it's a lot easier to judge Gin's feats off of what we see than what we don't.

Ichigo's Hollowfication also doesn't last long at this point. Could be that his mask broke before he was able to accomplish much. Gin did say his mask was brittle.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The fight between Ichgio was his mask on and Gin is off-screen. The fight between Bankai Ichigo and Gin is on-screen.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here but it's a lot easier to judge Gin's feats off of what we see than what we don't.

What?

possibly '''Relativistic''' (Fought a Hollow Mask Bankai Ichigo off-screen)

This is what you removed. This is what we agreed upon. You can't just decide yourself to remove scaling.

Also the last sentence doesn't make sense. He literally mocks his hollowfication after beating him. What do you mean what we see and what we don't?

Aizen currently has justification for overwhelming Masked Ichigo who is sub-rel and now all of a sudden according to you Gin doesn't scale to the same thing

 

[Damage3245]

We also have Gin fighting Bankai Ichigo on-screen, and being hit by his attacks.

Also, even the bit you're quoting just lists it as "possible".

We've also got reason to think that Gin himself is actually slower than his Mach 500 Bankai attack, since Ichigo deduces that if Gin just points his sword at him then it'll be all over, yet he's able to keep up with an attack rush from Gin.

To be honest, I think there might be a flaw in the original calc for Ichigo's arm movement speed. I'll need to check with some other calc group members.

 

[Purgy]

Even if that's true and it's wrong, you can't just remove whatever you want without discussing it first, I think that's the issue here.

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy; well, I did post the blog post here several times for people to go through and USKlaverei has been reviewing it at least.

We can discuss the scaling now if you'd like.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. This doesn't matter. We see Ichigo had his mask on and was defeated a couple pages later. It's crystal clear dude.

2. Nowhere is it said Gin is slower than his sword. Ichigo is worried about the technique he is using. Gin could have killed him whenever.

3. Okay I guess? I don't really care about whatever calc. I'm only asking about this scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; we also don't see a single attack from Ichigo with his mask on to Gin. Hence why the original rating was left as a possibility at best.

Him scaling to Bankai Ichigo is a lot more reasonable.

It's not said, true, but I didn't say that it was. Just that it is implied.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Damage3245

1.Why do we need to see an attack? Are you saying Ichigo just stood there in his mask form? They fought and Gin is literary unscathed. Ichigo’s body is riddled with wounds and his mask was overpowered.

2. Maybe if you literally ignore everything else?

3. No it isn't... Al that says is Ichigo is worried about his techniques. He's literally still trying to figure it out. We're is the scan where Gin implies he's slower?

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; I posted the scans. Ichigo is worried because of the speed of Gin's Bankai extension. He thinks that if Gin points the tip of his sword at him, he'll be finished. But this is taking place in the same scene where Gin himself is rushing at Ichigo and Ichigo is managing to deflecting his sword. So evidently Gin himself is not massively faster than Ichigo there.

What do you want Gin's rating to be? Massively Hypersonic+, possibly Sub-Rel, with Massively Hypersonic attack speed?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That isn't evidence. It's you assuming what Ichigo though. So again where does Hin state his sword is faster than he himself is.

Evidence is Gin clearly defeating his hollowfied state which is rated at sub-rel. Which you seem to be trying to not acknowledge, Even though it's already accepted.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; so do you want me to update Gin's rating to: Massively Hypersonic+ (Superior to Post-Resurrection Bankai Ichigo, who was struggling to keep up with him), possibly Sub-Relativistic (Fought Masked Ichigo off-screen), Massively Hypersonic attack speed with Bankai (He claims his Bankai extends and retracts at Mach 500), Massively Hypersonic+ attack speed with Buto Renjin (Buto Renjin doubles his Bankai's attack speed)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What is the basis of Mach 500 being now accepted? For year's the wiki has denied it and the Ichigo dodge. I didn't see anything new here.

 

[Damage3245]

If you think there's good reason for it to not be accepted, then we could just remove the statement and the calc from the current scaling.

That'd simplify things.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

It can also be that Gin himself doesn't fully know how fast he is. The Mach 500 can be him telling the truth but at the same time not as well. That giant text thing is that basically Gin is telling the truth because 500 would be some thing that was attributed to him just like his nickname relating to his Shikai. Also it can be that it actually was his speed in the past hence he could be telling the truth but also not at the same time. And once again because of Aizen Gin can't freely train his Bankai so he doesn't have a update on his own speed

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Not my concern not really surprised since staff change their minds on a whim as far as I can see.

Gin’s scaling to hollowfied Ichigo needs to return is my only concern.

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye; done.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Doesn't matter to me.

As for something else. Chojiro has a Bankai which is lightning speed. Yoruichi and Soifon are like regarded as the fastest according to the series/databook. Shouldn't someone like them scale to this based on statements regarding their speed at least prior to the time skip?

 

[Damage3245]

Where is it that they're faster than his Bankai's attack speed?

They can be faster than Chojiro's Shunpo speed without necessarily being faster than his Bankai.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

They've never interacted. I'm asking a question since I just remembered that and those 2 are usually praised as the fastest characters. Which is funny since Gin said his Zanpakuto is fastest as well .

 

[Damage3245]

Well, given that there's no interaction I think it'd probably be best if we don't scale them to it. Chojiro's Bankai has only come up once in the series and unfortunately the only person to face it was Yama who just tanked it instead of giving us a cool lightning-dodging feat.

 

[Tyri456]

I find pretty dumb the fact that base Ichigo post grimmjow fight is as fast as the base Ichigo in SS arc.
There is really no way to find accurately his speed increase, via back scaling To his previous form?

up

 

[Damage3245]

@Tyri456; unfortunately I don't think there is a much better way.

 

[Zoro21043]

thats true only after the first encounter
-urahara is hit from behind and caught by surprise by the first bala
-urahara has enough time to replace himself with a gigai without yammy noticing while he keeps spamming balas as he states later
-he analyzes the bala while yammy is spamming balas
so he should scale as yammy was nonstop spamming and urahara managed to replace himself with a gigai and then analyzed it

@Damage3245 I think you missed this

 

[Damage3245]

@Zoro21043; I saw, but all that means is that Urahara is faster than Yammy's reactions.

 

[Zoro21043]

yammy was constantly spamming balas so he should be faster than the balas to switch

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Damage3245 what was the thing with True Shikai Ichigo that you were on about? or did I misinterpret that and you were referencing the Ichigo dodging Gin calc?

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; I think the True Shikai Ichigo calc needs adjusting slightly, after discussing it with calc group members. It probably won't even change the tier of it, but the result will change.

I know we don't currently use it in the scaling of True Shikai Ichigo, but it is still a supporting calc.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Gotcha, fair enough.

 

[Purgy]

Can you link the calc you're referring to please?

 

[Damage3245]

@Purgy. This one.

 

[Purgy]

Thanks

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

They've never interacted. I'm asking a question since I just remembered that and those 2 are usually praised as the fastest characters. Which is funny since Gin said his Zanpakuto is fastest as well .

If Gin's Bankai is the fastest that would make it undoubtedly faster than Sasakibe's. Keep in mind Sasakibe's Zanpakuto was no secret, Byakuya gives a eulogy and makes it out that everyone knew Sasakibe had a Bankai.