The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; the way I scale Bleach doesn't require anything of the sort. You're the one trying to force through assumptions like the Shinigami back in the Soul Society arc being that fast. There is no reason to think that they are.

And trying to use the names of techniques to scale them... To make a comparison, that would be like scaling Vegeta's Big Bang attack to Universal because it's a Big Bang.

I gave you the exact description of the Kido from the databook. No mention of lightning.

Also - not sure if this even needs to be said or not - but assuming something to be lightning speed is not proving that it is lightning speed.

 

[Zoro21043]

@Arc7Kuroi; the way I scale Bleach doesn't require anything of the sort. You're the one trying to force through assumptions like the Shinigami back in the Soul Society arc being that fast. There is no reason to think that they are.

so the fodder shinigami can go from below high hypersonic to mhs/mhs+ in 2 years while soifon isnt mhs after training for a century ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I gave you the exact description of the Kido from the databook. No mention of lightning.

The mention of lightning is in the name.

And trying to use the names of techniques to scale them... To make a comparison, that would be like scaling Vegeta's Big Bang attack to Universal because it's a Big Bang.

Again, stop using other series, other series don't matter here. DBZ isn't Bleach and Bleach isn't DBZ. In Bleach names are significant, names have meaning outside of cool sounding attacks.

the way I scale Bleach doesn't require anything of the sort. You're the one trying to force through assumptions like the Shinigami back in the Soul Society arc being that fast. There is no reason to think that they are.

Yes it does, fodder Shinigami without a release are able to have lightning-speed attacks. There is no evidence to say that the fodder tier Shinigami surpassed SS Arc Captains. The Shinigami fodder were off screened by Quincy fodder.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; I'm pulling up other series to make a point to you that we don't judge abilities / techniques solely by their name without looking at the context.

It being called "lightning" or "pale lightning" isn't proof of lightning speed. It's like arguing that Ichigo's Moon Fang Heaven-Piercer (Getsuga Tensho) can pierce heaven because it's in the name.

And what's hilarious is that you're still assuming all "fodder tier Shinigami" have the same speed, or that their feats in a novel months after the War arc is somehow relevant to the Soul Society arc. Get over your number of assumptions Arc7 - stop trying to find excuses to backscale a random feat from the novel to every character in the series.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm pulling up other series to make a point to you that we don't judge abilities / techniques solely by their name without looking at the context.

It being called "lightning" or "pale lightning" isn't proof of lightning speed. It's like arguing that Ichigo's Moon Fang Heaven-Piercer (Getsuga Tensho) can pierce heaven because it's in the name.

In Bleach heaven is Soul Society, and quite literally Ichigo used Getsuga Tenshou to "pierce the heavens" aka take down the structure of heaven/soul society. But more literally heaven has no durability so piercing the heavens doesn't inherently assign any potency to Getsuga Tenshou. So you could argue that Ichigo's attack name was foreshadowing that Ichigo would dismantle the structure of Soul Society (or heaven in Bleach). Even, Getsuga Tenshou insinuates exactly what its name translates too, that's crazy almost like Kubo makes a whole-ass point out of names being symbolic.

And what's hilarious is that you're still assuming all "fodder tier Shinigami" have the same speed, or that their feats in a novel months after the War arc is somehow relevant to the Soul Society. Get over your number of assumptions Arc7 - stop trying to find excuses to backscale a random feat from the novel to every character in the series.

The feat is from a Shinigami's Zanpakuto in which that Shinigami died in the TYBW and an assassin picked up the blade. Again we have Captains train for a century and they can't reach lightning-speeds according to you, but fodder can do it in less than 2 years. Quit kidding yourself, you're finding every excuse possible to make it so fodder tier characters > Captains.

Regardless, damage, your argument for putting down the statement is that we have no feats on that level.

The feat that is used to scale basically the entire pre-timeskip characters is one that scales to a 4th seat. So rn, you're saying that because upscaling from a literal nobody doesn't yield lightning-speed feats, the databook description must be hyperbolic.

The second feat is an extremely lowballed version of Ichigo swiping away the petals that ended with everyone involved being split on the issue, but the databook still leans towards my original interpretation more than yours.

The third feat is based on Gin's Bankai statement which is potentially a lie.

So our only three feats in use are either massive lowballs or potentially flat out lies. There is no ambiguity with the databook description. Ichigo attacks at speeds comparable to lightning. It's simple you don't need to rely on faulty methods like upscaling everyone from fodder or disregarding every feat because they're slightly ambiguous.

Not to mention you literally argued that in a scene where the pivotal focus of the scene was sunlight that shading = illuminated, just to discredit the Aaroniero feat.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; should we upgrade Boros to Star level for his Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon attack?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; should we upgrade Boros to Star level for his Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon attack?

OPM isn't Bleach, stop drawing false equivalences from other series. Jesus Christ man. I don't ******* care about other series, they have no baring on Bleach whatsoever, get that through your dense skull.

 

[Zoro21043]

The third feat is based on Gin's Bankai statement which is potentially a lie.

not potentially it is a 100% a lie

"It doesn't stretch as fast as i said"

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; we're not going to be treating Bleach as a special verse and making special exceptions for it.

The standards of the wiki apply to every verse.

We're not accepting this kind of logic for Naruto, Dragon Ball or One Punch Man - so we're not accepting it for Bleach.

If you want to make up your own ratings for Bleach, please take them to another site where your theories on Bleach names will be accepted.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; we're not going to be treating Bleach as a special verse and making special exceptions for it.

I'm not saying treat Bleach as a special verse. But we literally have Ichibe say in the raws that he named everything in Soul Society, which would include the Kido. And we know in Bleach that a thing's name is usually an indication of what it is, and in Ichibe's case what he names is quite literally exactly what said thing is.

Once again you ignored most of the rest of my initial post too.

"The feat is from a Shinigami's Zanpakuto in which that Shinigami died in the TYBW and an assassin picked up the blade. Again we have Captains train for a century and they can't reach lightning-speeds according to you, but fodder can do it in less than 2 years. Quit kidding yourself, you're finding every excuse possible to make it so fodder tier characters > Captains.

Regardless, damage, your argument for putting down the statement is that we have no feats on that level.

The feat that is used to scale basically the entire pre-timeskip characters is one that scales to a 4th seat. So rn, you're saying that because upscaling from a literal nobody doesn't yield lightning-speed feats, the databook description must be hyperbolic.

The second feat is an extremely lowballed version of Ichigo swiping away the petals that ended with everyone involved being split on the issue, but the databook still leans towards my original interpretation more than yours.

The third feat is based on Gin's Bankai statement which is potentially a lie.

So our only three feats in use are either massive lowballs or potentially flat out lies. There is no ambiguity with the databook description. Ichigo attacks at speeds comparable to lightning. It's simple you don't need to rely on faulty methods like upscaling everyone from fodder or disregarding every feat because they're slightly ambiguous.

Not to mention you literally argued that in a scene where the pivotal focus of the scene was sunlight that shading = illuminated, just to discredit the Aaroniero feat."

 

[Zoro21043]

i want to bring this up again
if light did hit aaroniero why did rukia want to test her theory out?

https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0266-014.png

and she also had to trap him and prevent him from moving, why? maybe because he would dodge it again dont you think?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

where your theories on Bleach names will be accepted.

Have you read Bleach? The series itself draws significance to the names. DBZ doesn't do that, Naruto doesn't do that, OPM doesn't do that. It's not a theory, it's how the series is composed.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; I'm tired of arguing with you over this. You already said that you don't really use VS Battles wiki, you're only a part of this community to argue. I'd rather you just left us to sort out the ratings for the Bleach verse.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; I'm tired of arguing with you over this. You already said that you don't really use VS Battles wiki, you're only a part of this community to argue. I'd rather you just left us to sort out the ratings for the Bleach verse.

This is a concession.

Idgaf how you feel, this is a site for deliberating on such, get used to it. If you want to have your own semi-private Bleach scaling community, I'll reiterate what you said "go elsewhere."

You say names mean nothing in Bleach, despite Kubo telling us otherwise through Ichibe.

You claim fodder can reach lightning speed in 2 years while Captains (soifon) can't do it in a century.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; it's a concession of annoyance, that much is true.

I do claim that names mean nothing for the purpose of this wiki. We treat all series alike in this regard.

My only claim regarding the fodder is that they're irrelevant for judging the Soul Society arc Captains. It's like arguing that since the Captains are FTL in the novel, it's only logical that they by FTL in the Soul Society arc too because they're Captains as well. It completely ignores all context.

As for the rest, we've been over it all already. You already agreed to the compromise calc being used. I've no interest in reviving those debates.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I do claim that names mean nothing for the purpose of this wiki. We treat all series alike in this regard.

Ok so despite names holding significance in the narrative of Bleach, we have this rammed down our throats, you can ignore it because you feel like it. Good to know.

My only claim regarding the fodder is that they're irrelevant for judging the Soul Society arc Captains. It's like arguing that since the Captains are FTL in the novel, it's only logical that they by FTL in the Soul Society arc too because they're Captains as well. It completely ignores all context.

Not at all, I'm saying that because fodder tier can move at lightning-speeds/reach lightning-speed movement in 2 years it makes no sense that Captains (regardless of the time period) would be slower or that Captains (looking at you Soifon) could train for a century and not reach the speed it took fodder to reach in 2 years. I'm not saying SS Arc fodder have to be lightning speed, but as Byakuya said those who achieve Bankai (Captains) hold a significance that goes down in the history of Soul Society, but apparently it's no big deal that fodder can be massively faster than Captains. So narratively, if fodder can easily reach lightning speed in a couple years, then Captains who train 10 years for Bankai and train on top of that should be able to reach lightning speeds many times over.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; why stop there? If Soifon can arbitrarily reach MHS speeds in a century like you claim, why couldn't she reach Relativistic speeds in a century? Or FTL speeds? Or MFTL speeds?

That has as much basis as saying she must have reached MHS speeds (ignoring that you don't even know what speeds she was at before that century).

 

[Zoro21043]

My only claim regarding the fodder is that they're irrelevant for judging the Soul Society arc Captains. It's like arguing that since the Captains are FTL in the novel, it's only logical that they by FTL in the Soul Society arc too because they're Captains as well. It completely ignores all context.

Dont think thats a good comparison
cuz these are captains who kept training to get to new heights and had previously trained to become captain level
to give you a better example

the captains are level 30 at soul society and in the novels they jump to lets say 50 and we know they were training for decades if not centuries to get to level 30
while a fodder from level 1 reaches 30+ in 2 years? that would be wrong

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; why stop there? If Soifon can arbitrarily reach MHS speeds in a century like you claim, why couldn't she reach Relativistic speeds in a century? Or FTL speeds? Or MFTL speeds?

That has as much basis as saying she must have reached MHS speeds (ignoring that you don't even know what speeds she was at before that century).

Why are you extrapolating to infinity here.

We don't even have evidence that the fodder Shinigami trained at all, they could be lightning speed off rip out of the academy.

 

[Damage3245]

@Zoro21043; the "fodder character" is a nobody. For the purposes of this scaling, they are completely irrelevant because we know virtually nothing about them, there is no comparison between them and anyone, and there is nothing linking them to the Soul Society arc.

It's like Chojiro. Just because he is capable of a lightning attack with his Bankai doesn't mean we assume all Vice Captains must all be MHS+ because they're all the same rank as him. Trying to argue along that kind of logic is ridiculous.

 

[Duedate8898]

This is a concession.

Idgaf how you feel, this is a site for deliberating on such, get used to it.

You say names mean nothing in Bleach, despite Kubo telling us otherwise through Ichibe.

You claim fodder can reach lightning speed in 2 years while Captains (soifon) can't do it in a century.

Naming in bleach shouldn't be taken so literally. Simply put, the names of Zanpaktos. Zangetsu translates into Slaying Moon, but that does not at all mean that it slays the moon. We never had any indication of such. Same thing for Senbonzakura which isn't actually sakura petals but blades that resemble them.

What is made clear is that knowing the name of something gives more power to it, Getsuga Tensho is the greatest example we have of this. Ichigo didn't know the name at first, so it wasn't as powerful then he learned the name and boom, the attack was now more powerful. Getting your Zanpakuto's true name and referring to them by it gives you access to their true power.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Zoro21043; the "fodder character" is a nobody. For the purposes of this scaling, they are completely irrelevant because we know virtually nothing about them, there is no comparison between them and anyone, and there is nothing linking them to the Soul Society arc.

It's like Chojiro. Just because he is capable of a lightning attack with his Bankai doesn't mean we assume all Vice Captains must all be MHS+ because they're all the same rank as him. Trying to argue along that kind of logic is ridiculous.

Exactly the fodder is a nobody, potentially an unranked Shinigami, potentially fresh out the gates of the Academy, with no indication that he did any training outside the Academy. To assert that he is massively faster than any Captain throughout history is absurd.

And it's nothing like the Chojiro example.

We have an unnamed, potentially unranked Shinigami, with no indication that they trained able to attack at lightning speeds. In an organization that seats its officers based on combat capabilities.

 

[Zoro21043]

Naming in bleach shouldn't be taken so literally. Simply put, the names of Zanpaktos. Zangetsu translates into Slaying Moon, but that does not at all mean that it can slice a moon. We never had any indication of such. Same thing for Senbonzakura which isn't actually sakura petals but blades that resemble them.

im not arguing for lightning speed kido based on the name but want to prove they arent meaningless
kyoka suigetsu: "reflection of the moon on the water"
zangetsu "that which cut the true moon"

for byakuya scattered cherry blossoms represents a short love with a forbidden flower that eventually left him (his relationship with hissana didnt last long as she died) leaving him the petal (rukia)

 

[Duedate8898]

im not arguing for lightning speed kido based on the name but want to prove they arent meaningless

I can agree with that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Naming in bleach shouldn't be taken so literally. Simply put, the names of Zanpaktos. Zangetsu translates into Slaying Moon, but that does not at all mean that it slays the moon. We never had any indication of such. Same thing for Senbonzakura which isn't actually sakura petals but blades that resemble them.

Depending on what the moon represents in this scenario and what "slaying the moon" refers to I could argue the opposite. For Hado 4, we see lightning arc off the attack.

What is made clear is that knowing the name of something gives more power to it, Getsuga Tensho is the greatest example we have of this. Ichigo didn't know the name at first, so it wasn't as powerful then he learned the name and boom, the attack was now more powerful. Getting your Zanpakuto's true name and referring to them by it gives you access to their true power.

Yeah I don't disagree with this.

 

[AppleLord]

Naming in bleach shouldn't be taken so literally. Simply put, the names of Zanpaktos. Zangetsu translates into Slaying Moon, but that does not at all mean that it slays the moon. We never had any indication of such. Same thing for Senbonzakura which isn't actually sakura petals but blades that resemble them.

What is made clear is that knowing the name of something gives more power to it, Getsuga Tensho is the greatest example we have of this. Ichigo didn't know the name at first, so it wasn't as powerful then he learned the name and boom, the attack was now more powerful. Getting your Zanpakuto's true name and referring to them by it gives you access to their true power.

I will assume that you know how Ichibei's powers work, so I don't have to explain them. Ichibei gave name and power to everything in Soul Society. The names are literal, unlike other series, but of course there are exceptions out there who also have this concept if you look hard enough. Bleach isn't an exception, is part of a concept.

 

[Damage3245]

To assert that he is massively faster than any Captain throughout history is absurd.

I agree. That's why I don't think that this fodder's combat speed or movement speed actually scales to lightning speed. We only know that one of their attacks does. We don't know that any other fodder is this fast. We don't know that any other fodder is capable of attacks this fast. We don't know that this fodder could use such attacks during the Soul Society arc, if they were even around back then.

There's so much we don't know that trying to use this as the basis for arguing all Soul Society arc Captains must be lightning speed is insane.

 

[AppleLord]

@Zoro21043; the "fodder character" is a nobody. For the purposes of this scaling, they are completely irrelevant because we know virtually nothing about them, there is no comparison between them and anyone, and there is nothing linking them to the Soul Society arc.

It's like Chojiro. Just because he is capable of a lightning attack with his Bankai doesn't mean we assume all Vice Captains must all be MHS+ because they're all the same rank as him. Trying to argue along that kind of logic is ridiculous.

Why are you comparing Chojiro who could damage Base Yamamoto with his bankai to an unnamed character with zero feats?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I agree. That's why I don't think that this fodder's combat speed or movement speed actually scales to lightning speed. We only know that one of their attacks does. We don't know that any other fodder is this fast. We don't know that any other fodder is capable of attacks this fast. We don't know that this fodder could use such attacks during the Soul Society arc, if they were even around back then.

There's so much we don't know that trying to use this as the basis for arguing all Soul Society arc Captains must be lightning speed is insane.

The problem with this is that you are putting this fodder in a league of his own.

We generalize fodder for Bleach, we do it with the fourth seats. If some nobody is capable of lightning fast attacks then it reckons that it isn't uncommon. Because if it were that nobody wouldn't be a nobody.

Side note I'm not even arguing that all SS Captains are lightning fast, I'm arguing that the databook statement that puts SS Arc Bankai Ichigo at lightning speed should be useable.

 

[Zoro21043]

I agree. That's why I don't think that this fodder's combat speed or movement speed actually scales to lightning speed. We only know that one of their attacks does.

Imo this is a reason to make the captains if not the lieutenants too lightning speed at least
as considering the amount of zanpakutos we will have a few with lightning based attacks if the captains and lieutenants arent fast enough they would get blitzed they have to be at least that fast
they have no anti feats too i dont understand why at least the captains cant get to that speed

 

[Duedate8898]

I will assume that you know how Ichibei's powers work, so I don't have to explain them. Ichibei gave name and power to everything in Soul Society. The names are literal, unlike other series, but of course there are exceptions out there who also have this concept if you look hard enough. Bleach isn't an exception, is part of a concept.

That scan indicates more that these phenomenons occured before Ichibei named them, which would only indicate said phenomenons gaining more power due to being named.

And something else I want to make clear is that I personally have no real issue with back scaling the likes of Yoruichi and Sui-Feng to their agents from later arcs. Simply put, they're both known for their speed and it's made clear that they're almost always far and above the rest of their squads in this capacity.
My problem came from applying this speed to the agents from previous arcs since I think it doesn't make sense to assume that they're purely stagnate to the point that over the course of two years they haven't improved in any form or capacity, especially in an area they're supposed to be great at.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We don't have to say fodder has lightning speed attacks therefore all SS Arc lieutenants and captains are lightning speed.

I'm saying because fodder tier characters can have lightning speed attacks, when the databook says Ichigo can move at lightning speeds, it should be acceptable.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; as I've said. I'm opposed to that databook statement being used since it is exactly like the hyperbolic language used in numerous other databooks which we do not use.

Feel free to get other staff members involved.

 

[AppleLord]

I agree. That's why I don't think that this fodder's combat speed or movement speed actually scales to lightning speed. We only know that one of their attacks does. We don't know that any other fodder is this fast. We don't know that any other fodder is capable of attacks this fast. We don't know that this fodder could use such attacks during the Soul Society arc, if they were even around back then.

There's so much we don't know that trying to use this as the basis for arguing all Soul Society arc Captains must be lightning speed is insane.

Tokinada scales to the lightning feat. He was an aristocrat who had others do things for him and use cunning to control others, before Tousen joined the Gotei 13. His plan was to be worshiped as Soul King, or at least create a Soul King he could control. How can every single captain be slower than a rich guy who is lazier than Shunsui? It makes no sense story wise. Tokinada would had blitz and kill everyone before they could use their reiatsu defensively.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; as I've said. I'm opposed to that databook statement being used since it is exactly like the hyperbolic language used in numerous other databooks which we do not use.

Feel free to get other staff members involved.

Yet you've provided no evidence to why, in context, that description is hyperbolic. You have to evaluate each databook statement case-by-case, you can't off rip go "there's been statements like it that we disregarded for other series so Ima do that again here" no provide contextualized evidence within the series to support that it's hyperbolic.

You've said that there exists no calcs to support it, but that's faulty because the calc we have Ichigo's speed upscaled from is the speed of a 4th seat Shinigami, and the swat the petals feat is heavily lowballed to match up with the upscaled Orihime feat.

Meanwhile, I've used the fact that nobodies can have lightning fast attacks and it doesn't make them special, to argue that the databook is not so hyperbolic. I've also used Ichibe to argue that Byakurai (in which we see lightning arc from the attack) is likely lightning speed, and then combined that with Byakuya only using it against Ichigo after immobilizing him to support lightning speed being not so far-fetched.

 

[Damage3245]

Tokinada scales to the lightning feat. He was an aristocrat who had others do things for him and use cunning to control others, before Tousen joined the Gotei 13. His plan was to be worshiped as Soul King, or at least create a Soul King he could control. How can every single captain be slower than a rich guy who is lazier than Shunsui? It makes no sense story wise. Tokinada would had blitz and kill everyone before they could use their reiatsu defensively.

Let's cut to the chase here. Right now Tokinada scales to FTL. If you want to apply the scaling you're suggesting, are you arguing for those characters to all be scaling to FTL as well?

 

[AppleLord]

That scan indicates more that these phenomenons occured before Ichibei named them, which would only indicate said phenomenons gaining more power due to being named.

And something else I want to make clear is that I personally have no real issue with back scaling the likes of Yoruichi and Sui-Feng to their agents from later arcs. Simply put, they're both known for their speed and it's made clear that they're almost always far and above the rest of their squads in this capacity.
My problem came from applying this speed to the agents from previous arcs since I think it doesn't make sense to assume that they're purely stagnate to the point that over the course of two years they haven't improved in any form or capacity, especially in an area they're supposed to be great at.

The Soul King created these phenomenons in the light novels. Ichibei gave them a name and their power. Remember how Ichibei was able to remove all stats from Yhwach and gave him the strength of an ant? Ichibei doesn't turn Yhwach into an ant. Yhwach's as a phenomenon would be consider a soul or a quincy. Ichibei just gave him the stats of an ant.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yet you've provided no evidence to why, in context, that description is hyperbolic. You have to evaluate each databook statement case-by-case, you can't off rip go "there's been statements like it that we disregarded for other series so Ima do that again here" no provide contextualized evidence within the series to support that it's hyperbolic.

You've said that there exists no calcs to support it, but that's faulty because the calc we have Ichigo's speed upscaled from is the speed of a 4th seat Shinigami, and the swat the petals feat is heavily lowballed to match up with the upscaled Orihime feat.

Meanwhile, I've used the fact that nobodies can have lightning fast attacks and it doesn't make them special, to argue that the databook is not so hyperbolic. I've also used Ichibe to argue that Byakurai (in which we see lightning arc from the attack) is likely lightning speed, and then combined that with Byakuya only using it against Ichigo after immobilizing him to support lightning speed being not so far-fetched.

bump

 

[AppleLord]

Let's cut to the chase here. Right now Tokinada scales to FTL. If you want to apply the scaling you're suggesting, are you arguing for those characters to all be scaling to FTL as well?

Taking every light speed feat in Bleach starting from Quincy arrows, Negacion, Aoraniero, Aushwalen, Kido, Lille Barro, etc into consideration would fix that problem.

Are you still worried about Gin's speed lie?

Damage3245 said:
Where is it that they're faster than his Bankai's attack speed?

They can be faster than Chojiro's Shunpo speed without necessarily being faster than his Bankai.

Have you rolled out that Gin’s bankai follows this same formula? Gin could be moving at LS from Hisagi’s negacion light feat while his sword contraction can be mach 500 on top of his LS body movement. A thing to be considered.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; how many requirements does Byakurai fulfill?:

• Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real. Some examples of favourable properties are: making muscles of affected beings contract, having an (electro)magnetic field, being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning, flowing through conducting materials, the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis.