The Big Bleach Speed CRT: Part 2 - Post-Timeskip

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I agree with Damage that scaling tsukishima to Byakuya's Bankai speed would cause scaling issues.

Not really, as has been say above many times

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree with Damage that scaling tsukishima to Byakuya's Bankai speed would cause scaling issues.

???

Scaling is already like that so feel free to point out the “issues”.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

It would make Shikai Byakuya = Bankai Byakuya in speed which is obviously not true since his Bamkai gives a 2x speed increase.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It would make Shikai Byakuya = Bankai Byakuya in speed which is obviously not true since his Bamkai gives a 2x speed increase.

His Bankai doesn’t give him a speed increase. The speed increases when he controls the petals with his hands.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

His Bankai doesn’t give him a speed increase. The speed increases when he controls the petals with his hands.

Regardless, you're trying to scale him controlling his Bankai to his regular speed which causes scaling inconsistencies, as it would make his normal speed equal to him controlling his Bankai.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Regardless, you're trying to scale him controlling his Bankai to his regular speed which causes scaling inconsistencies, as it would make his normal speed equal to him controlling his Bankai.

And what would that equate to tsukishima?

As we literally see him on panel dodging both shikai and bankai and the 2x

People seems to be thinking that the 2x means byakuya speed from him goes up

The 2x is just the bankai, byakuya speed from him does not increase

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Regardless, you're trying to scale him controlling his Bankai to his regular speed which causes scaling inconsistencies, as it would make his normal speed equal to him controlling his Bankai.

You’ve actually yet to point out the scaling issues. Point a single one out right now since the current scaling reflects this already.

Relativistic (Comparable to his Pre-Timeskip self), higher attack speed when controlling his Bankai (When use the palm of your hand, Senbonzakura doubles your speed

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

We run into a scaling contradiction. Just as there is a feat of Tsukishima keeping up with Byakuya's doubled Bankai speed, we have multiple feats of Byakuya keeping up with Tsukishima's speed.

You end up with Byakuya = 2x Byakuya.

This.

 

[Damage3245]

And what would that equate to tsukishima?

As we literally see him on panel dodging both shikai and bankai and the 2x

My proposition for Tsukishima's rating is to put him as such:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly higher (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

Or:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

The alternative proposition ignores the rest of the context of the fight, I believe.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

His rating should be whatever Byakuya scales too.

 

[YukaSama4]

why is it a contradiction when Tsukishima said that his skills can improve with his ability? or maybe I'm missing sth here, or skills doesn't mean fighting abilities which include speed?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1.Ichigo’s Post-Timeskip Calc

Why does this need discussion when it isn’t used for scaling or is even rated higher than his PTS calc?

 

[Damage3245]

1.Ichigo’s Post-Timeskip Calc

Why does this need discussion when it isn’t used for scaling or is even rated higher than his PTS calc?

Well, there doesn't need to be discussion but it does need adding to the verse page.

 

[Tyri456]

My proposition for Tsukishima's rating is to put him as such:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly higher (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

Or:

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

The alternative proposition ignores the rest of the context of the fight, I believe.

I do not agree, I do not understand why we always have to use compromises when there is no need to, he should scales straight up to mhs+ as you did in the sandbox.

 

[AppleLord]

Edit: What I wrote got deleted for some unknown reason.

Here goes a nutshell: Tsukishima can have all the experience he can get from training with the FLASH that won't make him go at MFTL+ speeds. Tsukishima was expecting a kido spell not his bankai petals, and so doesn't count as a counterargument.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm by no means an expert on Bleach, but from skimming through this thread I have a suggestion that may or may not solve this issue. (Again, if I'm completely off with this don't hold it against me lol, I'm just working with my surface level knowledge. I apologize if I'm wrong)

So if Byakuya can keep up with Tsukishima at all points during the fight more or less, and Tsukishima can keep up with Byakuya's normal (MHS) AND 2x speed (MHS+), then wouldn't giving Byakuya MHS+ reactions solve that issue? I mean, it would kinda make sense because he can control and guide his Bankai's 2x speed right?

It'd solve the issue of Byakuya being able to keep up with Tsukishima throughout the fight, as well as keep Tsukishima keeping up with both his regular and 2x consistent I think.

Idk, just a suggestion.

 

[Damage3245]

@UchihaSlayer96; what about the suggestions I posted just above?

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly higher (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic (Able to keep up with Byakuya multiple times in combat after experiencing all of Byakuya's training), possibly Massively Hypersonic+ (Able to briefly keep up with Byakuya's manual control of Senbonzakura which doubles its attack speed)

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@Damage3245

That seems to work too, but shouldn't it be 'likely' instead of 'possibly'? I thought 'possibly' was reserved for extremely vague or inconclusive situations, instead of on-panel feats (that are still 'iffy' ofc).

Also, why doesn't Byakuya have MHS+ reactions, since he can manually control his Bankai? Just curious about it more than anything.

 

[Damage3245]

@UchihaSlayer96; Likely could also work.

As for manually controlling the Bankai, I don't know about how well that translates over to reaction speeds. Just because someone can pilot a remotely controlled plane that can fly as superhuman speeds doesn't mean they have superhuman reactions.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@UchihaSlayer96; Likely could also work.

As for manually controlling the Bankai, I don't know about how well that translates over to reaction speeds. Just because someone can pilot a remotely controlled plane that can fly as superhuman speeds doesn't mean they have superhuman reactions.

Yeah, that makes sense.
Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I like UchihaSlayer96’s suggestion.

At the end of the day the only time Tsukishima couldn’t keep up is when Byakuya caught him off guard. That shouldn’t warrant Tsukishima not scaling to the doubled speed petals. Tsukishima displays the ability to dodged the hand controlled petals, thus he scales to 2x Byakuya’s speed.

Also a two times speed advantage isn’t that great enough where it would make it so Byakuya can’t tag Tsukishima at all. And as we see in the fight, instead of trying to match Tsukishima’s speed Byakuya instead goes for a surprise attack that plays off Tsukishima being too arrogant.

I see nothing wrong with Tsukishima scaling to MHS+ whilst Byakuya is only MHS.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; I see nothing wrong with scaling Tsukishima to At least MHS, likely higher/MHS+.

Tsukishima seems a lot closer to being near Byakuya's speed than being double Byakuya's speed during the fight, considering that Byakuya does block his attacks multiple times, gets the jump on him with his final move, and a lot of emphasis is placed on the fact that Tsukishima is keeping up as well as he is because he inserted himself into Byakuya's past and knows everything about his abilities.

Byakuya also must have tagged Tsukishima in earlier parts of their fight because Tsukishima has some battle damage on his face and body when Byakuya was only using Shikai (not significant damage, true, but he was still hit).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

First nothing says someone who’s half as fast as someone can’t occasionally tag that someone. Again, Byakuya catching Tsukishima off guard by hiding petals in his hand is by no means an anti-feat for Tsukishima. Tsukishima is a very arrogant fellow he was strutting his stuff throughout the whole fight. He still was able to keep up with hand controlled Senbonzakura which should be the most important part for scaling his speed.

 

[YukaSama4]

tbh using it as an evidence is like saying that Goku was hit by a laser while he is off guard therefore he isn't Mftl+

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; it's not like I don't want to take that into account for his rating, but I don't think that it is the sole relevant feat here. There is too much evidence that Byakuya can keep up with his speed to say that Tsukishima is consistently 2x faster than Byakuya.

I think more emphasis is put on Tsukishima's experience with Senbonzakura than is put on Tsukishima's pure speed, and it is a relevant factor.

And Tsukishima being caught off-guard by Byakuya's Bankai is somewhat of an antifeat, considering that he was prepared for an attack from any of Byakuya's Kido. He was ready to be attacked, and he was hit by this same ability that he was keeping up with earlier.

So, can Tsukishima keep up with Byakuya's doubled Bankai speed? Yes, he could briefly, but there are a lot more feats from both characters during the fight that are relevant.

@YukaSama4; my point is that Tsukishima wasn't off-guard.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

He was prepared for any attack he has seen already in the past. He was not prepared for Byakuya to break out something new like cutting himself just to wound Tsukishima.

Think of it like this, Tsukishima studied perfectly for Test A knew all the questions and all the answers. But then he’s hand Test B and the final question isn’t something he expected or studied for. Of course he’d be shocked out of his mind, he went into this ordeal believing he knew everything.

That being said I don’t care too much so I could settle for “MHS, likely MHS+“

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I been reading through the thread, and Damage still appears to be making a lot more sense.

 

[USklaverei]

Funny thing is that the guy only shows up to say the same thing hahahahhah, it seems that it is agreed, it is not possible.

 

[Damage3245]

I'll go through the sandbox and make sure the ratings are updated to the propsoal so that it can be reviewed in full.

I do want to address Chad and Orihime. Both of them are definitely slower than Tsukishima, so although they have feats of blocking attacks from Fullbring Ichigo I think they should only be rated as Massively Hypersonic (Mach 926.25) for their Fullbring arc selves.

 

[AppleLord]

I'll go through the sandbox and make sure the ratings are updated to the propsoal so that it can be reviewed in full.

I do want to address Chad and Orihime. Both of them are definitely slower than Tsukishima, so although they have feats of blocking attacks from Fullbring Ichigo I think they should only be rated as Massively Hypersonic (Mach 926.25) for their Fullbring arc selves.

Would that be the same rating from the previous arc? What about Orihime telling Ichigo that they trained for the last 17 months?

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; I'm pretty sure their Pre-Timeskip rating is a lot lower than that.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Would that be the same rating from the previous arc? What about Orihime telling Ichigo that they trained for the last 17 months?

Then they'd just be "At least Massively Hypersonic (Should be faster than before due to training for 17 months)" or something like that I assume.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So we going with “MHS, likely MHS+” for Tsukishima?

 

[SilentBob34]

From what I've read from the previous speed thread whatever Damage3245 says is always accepted so there's really no point in arguing even if he's not right all the time.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Didn't Chad and Orihime actually fought Tsukishima in the anime? It can be used as somewhat supporting evidence for them to be able to tag and interrupt a both Bloodlusted and Panicking Ichigo. Especially Orihime since she did counter Ginjou who is shown to be able to scuffle with Tsukishima

 

[Damage3245]

@Dangai_Ichigo; I haven't seen the anime scenes for that, but in the manga both Chad and Orihime were blitzed by Tsukishima.

Then again both Tsukishima and Ichigo have blitzed each other during their fight, and at other times appear evenly matched, so I'm unsure.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So uh can I take silence as acquiescence for “MHS, likely MHS+“ for our boy Tsuki? I’m unsure if that’s what we were going for off rip or if it’s still up for discussion lol.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; sorry, I thought I already answered that further up. That was part of my suggested compromise, yeah.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So uh can I take silence as acquiescence for “MHS, likely MHS+“ for our boy Tsuki?

I'm pretty sure Damage already said he's fine with this.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Awesome thanks. What about FB Shikai Ichigo? He blitzed Tsukishima with just his regular Fullbring and then he’s clearly massively faster than that should he just climb to MHS+?