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Yeah the only time he got hit is literally the point blank blast through his chest...
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The Big Bleach Speed CRT: Part 2 - Post-Timeskip
- Thread starter Damage3245
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So yea, given tsukishima did dodge all attacks even the 2x one I say he scales
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He also states that he can handle all kido he throws at him from the exact same range.The whole point of the fight was Tsukishima outsmarting Byakuya rather than outpacing him because he had experienced his techniques countless times.
In CFYOW,Ginjo is able to outpace Gran Rey Cero but Tsukishima tactically manoevures it so its not about Tsukishima being faster.
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Exept he did dodge a 2x attack so saying he didn't is a lie
Also outsmarting would be of no help if the enemy can blitz u
Tsukishima still needed to be fast enought to react and dodge which he did the whole figjt
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- Thread starter
- #45
@TOAAPRESENCE1; he did it through experience, not by being as fast or faster. He's experienced Byakuya's Bankai countless times. That doesn't mean he'd be able to keep up with something that fast that he's not familiar with.
And - even we did accept this - I reiterate that this should not apply to the version of Tsukishima that Fullbring Ichigo fought against.
And - even we did accept this - I reiterate that this should not apply to the version of Tsukishima that Fullbring Ichigo fought against.
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And nor do I think they would
As tsukishima explains that he became stronger by training with byakuya so we dont know how strong he became after that
Which is another reason why I say he compares to byakuya
As we saw
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The point is he still needs to be fast enough to dodge it. And again a 2x speed is nothing.
What is your point on CFYOW? How is the novel relevant here?
Why would Ichigo not scale?
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- Thread starter
- #48
If a two times speed increase is nothing, then why couldn't a slower Tsukishima keep up briefly with Byakuya's Bankai attack?
Why would a Tsukishima that is two times faster than Byakuya be blocked multiple times by Byakuya?
Because Tsukishima grew stronger as a result of training countless times with Byakuya.
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- #50
We run into a scaling contradiction. Just as there is a feat of Tsukishima keeping up with Byakuya's doubled Bankai speed, we have multiple feats of Byakuya keeping up with Tsukishima's speed.
You end up with Byakuya = 2x Byakuya.
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What is this tho?
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- Thread starter
- #52
If you'd read my big post breaking down the fight, you'd have seen it.
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Byakuya during the whole fight never caught up to tsukishima not even when he double the speed, time he caught him and only wound he gave him was the last one where byakuya hid the blades
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He says his skill has improved. I don’t recall his fullbringer giving him some form of reactive power level. But if you were to argue that people can just say he must be Aizen level since he beat him according to Orihime.
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- Thread starter
- #56
Byakuya hiding the blades wouldn't make Tsukishima any slower, would it? After all, Tsukishima was fully prepared for an attack since he invited Byakuya to hit him with a Kido.
And Byakuya did hit Tsukishima off-screen with his Shikai as I pointed out, since he's rough up by his attacks.
And Byakuya blocked Tsukishima multiple times. Even if he didn't hit him back, how is blocking someone not also keeping up with them?
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???
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Arent u claiming that Tsukishima still has to be fast enough to evade Byakuya even tho he has prior knowledge of all his techniques?
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Obviously, knowing what’s coming doesn’t mean a thing if you can’t move fast enough. It’s pretty basic scaling logic.
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Then I said that in reponse to this claim^
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And I responded like that because I literally didn’t understand the relevance. If he isn’t strong enough to resist it head on then he’d be dead or do you believe with his experience gained he will tank it?
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No I believe that his experience would allow him to avoid them.
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I read it.
But are just "random phrases" about skills and counter, because Tsukishima knew everything of him.
It is not like he grew exponetially faster and stronger randomly, he just get better at fighting him. That's the context.
Tsukishima since his first appereance was able to get out of the sight of byakuya.
But are just "random phrases" about skills and counter, because Tsukishima knew everything of him.
It is not like he grew exponetially faster and stronger randomly, he just get better at fighting him. That's the context.
Tsukishima since his first appereance was able to get out of the sight of byakuya.
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That has nothing to do with tanking like you asked...
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- Thread starter
- #66
Sorry, but this is like saying "If you shoot a planet level blast at the ground, obviously the planet will blow up. It's pretty basic scaling logic." But this isn't always the case in fiction, which is why we have conventions like the AOE Fallacy which means that it isn't always the case.
Yes! That's part of my point. Tsukishima isn't double Byakuya's speed. He's just better at fighting against him.
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I don’t see how this relates? We have a AP and DC for that. That’s not basic scaling at all.
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- Thread starter
- #68
Focusing too much on Tsukishima keeping up with Byakuya's Bankai and ignoring the entire rest of the fight, is like focusing on a character have a Building level destruction feat and ignoring the rest of the context that makes them scale much higher than that.
We have more consistent feats that put Tsukishima as not being double Byakuya's speed.
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So we just gonna ignore he did dodge it? Ok
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No one is ignoring anything but you. I’m focusing on it because that’s the relevant feat here. You’re literally doing that exact thing right there. Focusing on his Shikai only and blatantly trying to disregard him dodging his 2x speed attacks as some sort of inconsistency because Byakuya killed him by doing something he never expected at point blank range.
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I was trynna say that by ur logic of Tsukishima being fast enough to evade Byakuya's techniques would mean that he'd also be strong enough to tank Senkei,Gokei etc.I believe that he's able to predict Byakuya's moves due to fighting him countless times and then manoevuring accordingly.
Sorry for being unclear.Anyways,I've said what I wanted to for now.
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- #72
No - I'm saying that contextually speaking Tsukishima is a perfect counter for Byakuya's Shikai/Bankai because of his countless amount of experience in fighting it.
It doesn't mean that he'd react as well against something unrelated that's as fast.
Byakuya keeping up with Tsukishima, and Tsukishima keeping up with Byakuya should mean that they're on par with each other. We shouldn't just rate Tsukishima as being double Byakuya's speed because of one feat. Especially since we also have a feat right after this of Tsukishima being blitzed by Byakuya's Bankai.
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Care to explain to me how you predict random hand movements? He doesn’t have precog. You’d have a point if it was some linear attack.
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Even being just x1.3 times faster can generate a blitz, him not scaling to at least x2, when it is stated is more than x2 makes no sense, and THIS will generate inconsistencies because he was actually able to keep up and dodge.
The fact he know everything doesnt debunk his stats being able to keep up with Byakuya. What you are doing now is using the fact that tsukishima know how his ability work to debunk his stats. When there is no relation at all, it just a matter of How he fight.
If tsukishima does not scale to that speed, no matter how much he knew, he would get always blitzed.
That is a really simple scaling, and to be honest, I do not see the reason to discuss this. This is a battle shonen, tsukishima can simple keep up with those speed. There is no deep reasoning behind it.
The fact he know everything doesnt debunk his stats being able to keep up with Byakuya. What you are doing now is using the fact that tsukishima know how his ability work to debunk his stats. When there is no relation at all, it just a matter of How he fight.
If tsukishima does not scale to that speed, no matter how much he knew, he would get always blitzed.
That is a really simple scaling, and to be honest, I do not see the reason to discuss this. This is a battle shonen, tsukishima can simple keep up with those speed. There is no deep reasoning behind it.
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There is also the fact that tsukishima multiple times entered the danger zone
Which shows how speed from going from the outside to the inside even when byakuya was using his 2x
Also tsukishima knowing what byakuya can do is one thing
Tsukishima does not have precog to know where the attacks will come from, meaning he still has to dodge attacks which he has no idea where they are coming from
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These ratings confuse me. Somehow Ichigo speed is lower than he is in arrancar arc in his power restored key? Some Captains are like Mach 100 in the TYBW. It’s amazing how ****** these ratings have become with the removal of like every feat.
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No kidding
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- #79
As I've explained before, the ratings in the sandboxes aren't finalized. They'll be updated as we progress through the discussions on this thread.
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I agree with Damage that scaling tsukishima to Byakuya's Bankai speed would cause scaling issues.
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