The Big Bleach Speed CRT: Part 2 - Post-Timeskip

[Damage3245]

ichibei is said to be above all soul reapers at that point of time
so he is above renji and yhwach scales to ichibei

I don't think I can even describe how ridiculous this is. You have no proof that he's referring to the speed of the characters, or their overall ability, or just their status.

What is it with these ridiculous propositions for scaling?

I think I'll need to close the thread and re-organize this discussion to get back on track.

The thread is temporarily locked.

 

[Damage3245]

Apologies for the temporary closure - I'm going to go back to what I said earlier in the thread. Let's leave the FTL ratings related to Renji's calc for the time being.

I will make a separate thread specifically to address that, and the scaling to it.

For now the main purpose of this thread is to update the ratings of the characters who aren't scaling to Renji's feat.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Why the hell do you want to make a separate thread for everything?

 

[Damage3245]

Why the hell do you want to make a separate thread for everything?

To keep it focused on a particular topic.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Well if the purpose of this thread is to update the non-FTL scaling, can we discuss the Bankai multiplier?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So we use the actual revision thread...?

 

[Damage3245]

Well if the purpose of this thread is to update the non-FTL scaling, can we discuss the Bankai multiplier?

No, that's a separate topic that affects the whole verse.

What I want to get done first is to update the Post-Timeskip profiles.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Fair enough, I can help update the non-Renji calc related profiles if need be, I don't think there were any voiced objections to the non-FTL related things.

 

[Damage3245]

Fair enough, I can help update the non-Renji calc related profiles if need be, I don't think there were any voiced objections to the non-FTL related things.

I appreciate the assistance.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Np I guess let me know when the profiles are unlocked and I'll get to it in my spare time.

 

[Damage3245]

Which profiles are currently locked?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Which profiles are currently locked?

Good question, I just assumed they're normally locked, I hadn't checked. I'll let you know if I run into problems.

 

[Zoro21043]

how do we treat as nodts spikes of light?

 

[Damage3245]

how do we treat as nodts spikes of light?

We don't currently accept them as being lightspeed.

Just because somebody could make a weapon out of light, or out of lightning for example, doesn't mean we have to assume it travels like a laser or a lightning bolt. Sasuke's Chidori Senbon in Naruto for example, though made as Lightning Jutsu, aren't assumed to an MHS+ attack.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Fair enough, I can help update the non-Renji calc related profiles if need be, I don't think there were any voiced objections to the non-FTL related things.

There are quite some

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

There are quite some

I’m just expediting the process by doing the grunt work, and I haven’t seen (that I remember) any unresolved non-FTL related issues, but this is the thread for discussing the non-FTL ratings.

 

[Damage3245]

I haven't seen any either, unless it is to do with something like the Soul King palace distance calc which is going to be addressed some time this week with a Calc Group Member's thread.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yhwach took Mask's power anyway so whatever he'd scale above him regardless

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach took Mask's power anyway so whatever he'd scale above him regardless

Mask is only Massively Hypersonic, but this is an irrelevant point to resolving the non-FTL ratings.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Mask is only Massively Hypersonic, but this is an irrelevant point to resolving the non-FTL ratings.

He'd be taking the Light Speed attack as well...

 

[Damage3245]

He'd be taking the Light Speed attack as well...

I don't even want to get into the nonsense that is Yhwach stealing abilities from his subordinates and then never using them. Even granting that one, it still wouldn't change his overall speed rating. It would just be one attack.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Anyway. Why do you think they can't get this fast?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I don't even want to get into the nonsense that is Yhwach stealing abilities from his subordinates and then never using them.

Thankfully the manga states he does =]

 

[Zoro21043]

didnt we decide to discuss ftl stuff later?

 

[AppleLord]

Taking away Renji's feat of blocking Mask LS as an outlier attack is like taking away Naruto's dodging Madara's LS attack as an outlier. Both are the first and only LS speed feats of those recent versions of the characters.

 

[Damage3245]

didnt we decide to discuss ftl stuff later?

We are.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

All the non-FTL related profile keys have been updated.

 

[Damage3245]

All the non-FTL related profile keys have been updated.

Thank you.

At the moment I only really have two issues with the current scaling for the FTL characters, namely base Yhwach and Oetsu. I don't know if a new thread is worth being made for this topic or we just keep discussing it here.

We got kinda overly focused on the base Yhwach issue earlier which a lot of people objected to, but didn't really provide much in the way of hard evidence for.

As for Oetsu - my reasoning is that he only fought Gerard (and the other Elites) prior to the Auswahlen boost, and that after they recieved that boost they demolished the Royal Guard including Oetsu. There is really no comparing him and Post-Auswahlen Gerard.

So I don't think we should scale Oetsu to FTL.

 

[USklaverei]

literally a person who disagrees that yhwach doesn't scale for that

 

[AppleLord]

Shouldn't Base Yhwach scale to Gremmy for defeating him and sealing him away? Gremmy was unsealed to fight Kenpachi so the stats couldn't have changed specially when he couldn't use his powers to escape the cage, but he could use them to create cookies for Liltotto?

 

[Damage3245]

We have zero context to their fight, other than it ending with Yhwach sealing Gremmy. For an entirely off-screen "fight" with virtually zero details, I'm really hesitant against saying characters must be equal in statistics. For all we know Yhwach just used a Quincy spell that sealed off his most of his power for reality warping then dumped him in a cage. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just highlight how we don't know what happened.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

We have zero context to their fight, other than it ending with Yhwach sealing Gremmy. For an entirely off-screen "fight" with virtually zero details, I'm really hesitant against saying characters must be equal in statistics. For all we know Yhwach just used a Quincy spell that sealed off his most of his power for reality warping then dumped him in a cage. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just highlight how we don't know what happened.

Ok then why didn't Yhwach used that certain spell on Ichibei for instance?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I agree with the Oetsu thing.

Aight, so we know Vollstandig Bazz scales to Post-Royal Training Renji.

We know that Liltotto is aware of Bazz's Vollstandig capabilities as she's seen him in combat.

In CFYOW I Liltotto thinks this: "She knew the direct guard's [aka the elite sternritter] capabilities to a certain extent, so if those unrivaled men had been removed from the equation, she could certainly believe that Yhwach and Haschwalth had died in battle."

Liltotto's statement shows that the Elite Sternritter are so above all the other Sternritter, that without them, losing the war seems like the only outcome. She also states that in a general sense they are simply unrivaled in comparison to the other Sternritter.

The Elite Sternritter being > any other Sternritter (at least post-Auswahlen) makes perfect narrative sense. Yhwach took them up to the Royal Palace to challenge the strongest squad of Shinigami in existence atm, so it only makes sense that he would bring his most physically capable men. Yhwach also distributed the power of all the other Quincy Vollstandig to the Elite Sternritter (including Bazz-B's FTL Vollstandig capabilities). For that reason I believe the Post-Auswahlen Elite Sternritter should all upscale Vollstandig Bazz, since as per Liltotto there was no one alive at the time in the Quincy armada who could rival the Elite.

As for Ichibe, he should upscale Post-Royal Training Renji for the reasons stated earlier today. Yhwach says Ichibe is above all Shinigami, which in that moment would include FTL Renji. We apply this same logic for Transcendent Aizen, who has a statement for being above all Shinigami and Hollows so we rate him above all that we've seen at the time. Thus, Ichibe should climb from Renji and Yhwach would scale to Ichibe.

TLDR: all Elite Sternritter (and those they fight), Ichibe, and Yhwach should climb Renji.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also, technically with Full Cheers and his Vollstandig, Mask De Masculine was able to push and keep up with Renji. I don't know why we don't scale Full Cheers and Vollstandig Mask to Renji but I'm going to reread that fight real quick.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; that statement doesn't necessarily imply that their statistics are superior to all other Sternritter. Each of those guards had insanely broken Schrifts / abilities, remember.

As for Mask de Masculine, he wasn't able to keep up with Renji at all. The moment Renji charged at him to finish him off, Mask could do nothing to stop him.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Question, how do we treat Yhwach's power gaining? Since he's supposed to be getting Yamamoto's power and Quilge's power after the first invasion for instance? Like is it everytime he sleeps those powers are added to his own or is it the moment they die they go to him?

 

[M11UTD]

Liltotto statement should go to pre auswahlen Elites, since she only knows them in that version.

 

[AppleLord]

We have zero context to their fight, other than it ending with Yhwach sealing Gremmy. For an entirely off-screen "fight" with virtually zero details, I'm really hesitant against saying characters must be equal in statistics. For all we know Yhwach just used a Quincy spell that sealed off his most of his power for reality warping then dumped him in a cage. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just highlight how we don't know what happened.

It still ended in Yhwach overpowering Gremmy in battle. Yhwach was also more weaker back then since he keeps getting stronger by absorbing souls and there’s also the legend about him regaining his strength.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

@Arc7Kuroi; that statement doesn't necessarily imply that their statistics are superior to all other Sternritter. Each of those guards had insanely broken Schrifts / abilities, remember.

As for Mask de Masculine, he wasn't able to keep up with Renji at all. The moment Renji charged at him to finish him off, Mask could do nothing to stop him.

Saying Hax is all they have does not work in these Shounen. They would be impressive if they have the statistics to back it up. And Gerard's hax is literally his statistics and size increasing. Since Gerard isn't a giant when first introduced then how would he be a threat for it when we don't even know if he can reverse the growth.

 

[Damage3245]

Saying Hax is all they have does not work in these Shounen. They would be impressive if they have the statistics to back it up. And Gerard's hax is literally his statistics and size increasing. Since Gerard isn't a giant when first introduced then how would he be a threat for it when we don't even know if he can reverse the growth.

Gerard has grown huge before - he said that he's grown huge before at least, during his fight.