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Notes/Introduction:
This is the first time I tried making a discussion about a certain character, so sorry if this discussion thread is a little bit wack, if you have any other information you want to tell me about the Badniks, please let me know. Some of this information also comes from the Egg Fleet page, which I also think should apply for the Badnik pages as well. Additionally, I think that this info could apply for a Badnik page in itself. Also, this thread will mainly be focusing on the Badniks as a whole, as some individual Badniks are shown to be more powerful than others. With that out of the way, here is my discussion about updating the Badnik pages.
Age:
Starting off small we have the "age" of the Badniks. It is stated that the Badniks who debuted in the first Sonic the Hedgehog were made shortly before the events of the game, but there is some confirmation that this applies to every Badnik from every game in Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II, as that game confirmed that the Badniks that debuted in that game were "newly-developed" (with Fullboar’s description even noting that they were made with the research Eggman got from the previous episode). I think this alone confirms that the new Badniks who debut in a certain game are likely made shortly before the events of said game (for example, Zoomer was made shortly before the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II).
Attack Potency/Striking Strength:
As we all know, most standard Badniks have at least Wall level AP (such as Grounders being able to bust through walls and more recently Mole Mechas being able to break through concrete slabs), but I think standard Badniks can scale much higher than that. In both the opening for the original Sonic the Hedgehog from Sonic Origins and the opening animation for Sonic Superstars, we can see that the Badniks can easily overpower the Animals, scaling them above these standard animals. In both Sonic Forces and early on in the IDW comics, we can see that Badniks can easily threaten the lives of various citizens and be capable of causing massive damage to their towns, which should scale them above these citizens as well. However, the most impressive feats that the Badniks have pulled off is being able to actually threaten the main cast on some occasions. A big example of what I mean is in Sonic Lost World, where a group of Buzz Bombers and Snail Blasters were capable of damaging Eggman’s Eggmobile, as well as being a threat to Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Orbot, and Cubot (as the five of them had to retreat due to being overwhelmed by the barrage of Badniks). The Badniks have also threatened the main cast in the IDW comics as well (mainly in larger groups but still), such as in the "Urban Warfare" arc where Sonic had to retreat from numerous Badniks before his friends came to save him. In the "Familiar Territory" story from the fifth anniversary issue, two Shellcrackers were capable of knocking down and injuring Sonic before being destroyed themselves. While the Badniks in these examples never fully defeated Sonic and his friends, it is shown that even standard Badniks can be a threat to the heroes if they are not prepared (either due to sneak attacks or being in large groups), which should at the very least scale them slightly below the main cast. Considering that in these examples that most of the Badniks shown are just the standard models, most Badniks should scale to these feats. It should also be noted that this quote from the Nintendo DS version of Sonic Colors suggests that the Badniks have gotten more powerful overtime, which could possibly make them scale even higher (this could explain why stronger Badniks such as Egg Hammers still pose a threat to Sonic and his friends even long after their debut).
As for more powerful Badniks, it really depends on the model. On the more light scaling, the Giant Chopper is capable of destroying part of a mountain, which should scale to at least Mountain level. More importantly however is the fact that there are some Badniks that have shown to be a threat to Sonic and his friends on a more consistent scale (most of those examples can be found in the Egg Fleet page). I won’t delve into too many specific examples, but those Badniks should scale much higher compared to the standard models and their feats could be noted on their pages.
Speed:
Now it is time for some speed, and oh boy this one is interesting. Most Badniks would likely have around Immobile-Superhuman speed, as they typically either do not move at all (Bloominator, Toxomister, Elephant Mecha, etc), or just move at an average or above average speed. However, some Badniks have been shown being able to keep up with Sonic (such as the Moto Bugs in Sonic Colors and a group of Caterkillers and Batbrains in the IDW comics), so I think those Badniks could range from Superhuman-Massively FTL+ depending on the situation.
Lifting Strength:
Not too much to discuss here, but there have been some interesting strength feats for the Badniks. In the opening for the original Sonic the Hedgehog from Sonic Origins, we can see that two Buzz Bombers are capable of carrying large capsules, Batbrains are also capable of carrying Caterkillers, and standard Badniks have been shown to be capable of carrying large crates. There are probably other examples, but this is another case of a stat varying depending on the Badnik.
Durability:
While most standard Badniks are typically easily destroyed fodder for Sonic and his friends, it doesn’t mean that the Badniks are completely lacking in the durability department. In Sonic Superstars, there is a large drone-like Badnik called the Tick-Tock Drone that can one shot Sonic (or another playable character) by detonating the factory. Notably, while the player does immediately die from the Tick-Tock Drone, none of the Badniks in Press Factory Zone Act 2 are seen being affected by the Tick-Tock Drone’s attack (as they are never seen being destroyed). Considering that the Badniks in Press Factory Zone are just standard models, it could be inferred that other Badniks should scale to this feat as well. Additionally, most 3D games between Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed had most Badniks in certain areas being capable of tanking hits from Sonic and his friends before being destroyed, which should scale the Badniks to have even higher durability. Some other interesting standard Badnik durability feats include the metal variants of Spinner in Sonic Colors being capable of tanking Sonic’s Homing Attack multiple times without being harmed and the Crabmeats in Sonic Lost World being capable of counterattacking Sonic’s Homing Attack (though it only applies for this game) and being able to tank his Flying Kick attack (unlike most other Badniks).
As for Badniks who either take multiple hits to destroy, are near or completely indestructible, or can easily tank some attacks from the main cast before being fully destroyed, they would vastly outscale the standard Badnik models and have their durability likely scale to around the AP of the characters they can tank attacks from.
Intelligence:
While the Badnik pages say that the Badniks are at least Animalistic, I actually think they have better intelligence than just that. Starting with the biggest example of all, in the Sonic the Hedgehog 30th Anniversary Special issue from the IDW comics, we can clearly see the Badniks going out of their way to celebrate Dr. Eggman’s birthday each year during the "Dr. Eggman’s Birthday" story (even going out of their way to make special gifts based on Dr. Eggman’s interests). While you could argue that Dr. Eggman programmed his Badniks to do this, he himself has stated that he constantly told the Badniks to cut it out and yet it only encouraged them to celebrate his birthday even more (showing that the Badniks are celebrating Dr. Eggman’s birthday due to genuinely caring about him rather than being programmed to do so). Badniks have also shown being capable of feeling emotions in various other games and media, either in descriptions or in small animations, though these examples are not as major as the birthday one. One thing that is notable is the fact that the IDW comics showcase other Badniks outside of the classic era being capable of feeling emotions, which shows that the intelligence for most Badniks throughout the eras should be comparable to the classic Badniks. Despite this, the Badniks do have limits in their programming, as Dr. Eggman states in The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog that the Badniks capabilities are usually rather simple (mainly attempting to kill Sonic), so I would say that most Badniks should have High Animalistic intelligence (due to their nature and behavior usually paralleling more intelligent animals such as primates rather than basic killing machines).
Despite this, there are Badniks that have shown much more sentience and intelligence than the standard models (mainly more important members like Metal Sonic, the E-Series, and the Mirage Express), which I think should scale much higher compared to the standard models (who are High Animalistic).
Conclusion:
I hope that this thread helped shine light on the Badniks more impressive and overlooked feats, as I hope that this can help update the Badnik pages to place them in a more higher tier. If you have any questions about what tier the Badniks should be in or if you can note any other feats that I missed in this thread, please let me know in the replies.
This is the first time I tried making a discussion about a certain character, so sorry if this discussion thread is a little bit wack, if you have any other information you want to tell me about the Badniks, please let me know. Some of this information also comes from the Egg Fleet page, which I also think should apply for the Badnik pages as well. Additionally, I think that this info could apply for a Badnik page in itself. Also, this thread will mainly be focusing on the Badniks as a whole, as some individual Badniks are shown to be more powerful than others. With that out of the way, here is my discussion about updating the Badnik pages.
Age:
Starting off small we have the "age" of the Badniks. It is stated that the Badniks who debuted in the first Sonic the Hedgehog were made shortly before the events of the game, but there is some confirmation that this applies to every Badnik from every game in Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II, as that game confirmed that the Badniks that debuted in that game were "newly-developed" (with Fullboar’s description even noting that they were made with the research Eggman got from the previous episode). I think this alone confirms that the new Badniks who debut in a certain game are likely made shortly before the events of said game (for example, Zoomer was made shortly before the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II).
Attack Potency/Striking Strength:
As we all know, most standard Badniks have at least Wall level AP (such as Grounders being able to bust through walls and more recently Mole Mechas being able to break through concrete slabs), but I think standard Badniks can scale much higher than that. In both the opening for the original Sonic the Hedgehog from Sonic Origins and the opening animation for Sonic Superstars, we can see that the Badniks can easily overpower the Animals, scaling them above these standard animals. In both Sonic Forces and early on in the IDW comics, we can see that Badniks can easily threaten the lives of various citizens and be capable of causing massive damage to their towns, which should scale them above these citizens as well. However, the most impressive feats that the Badniks have pulled off is being able to actually threaten the main cast on some occasions. A big example of what I mean is in Sonic Lost World, where a group of Buzz Bombers and Snail Blasters were capable of damaging Eggman’s Eggmobile, as well as being a threat to Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Orbot, and Cubot (as the five of them had to retreat due to being overwhelmed by the barrage of Badniks). The Badniks have also threatened the main cast in the IDW comics as well (mainly in larger groups but still), such as in the "Urban Warfare" arc where Sonic had to retreat from numerous Badniks before his friends came to save him. In the "Familiar Territory" story from the fifth anniversary issue, two Shellcrackers were capable of knocking down and injuring Sonic before being destroyed themselves. While the Badniks in these examples never fully defeated Sonic and his friends, it is shown that even standard Badniks can be a threat to the heroes if they are not prepared (either due to sneak attacks or being in large groups), which should at the very least scale them slightly below the main cast. Considering that in these examples that most of the Badniks shown are just the standard models, most Badniks should scale to these feats. It should also be noted that this quote from the Nintendo DS version of Sonic Colors suggests that the Badniks have gotten more powerful overtime, which could possibly make them scale even higher (this could explain why stronger Badniks such as Egg Hammers still pose a threat to Sonic and his friends even long after their debut).
As for more powerful Badniks, it really depends on the model. On the more light scaling, the Giant Chopper is capable of destroying part of a mountain, which should scale to at least Mountain level. More importantly however is the fact that there are some Badniks that have shown to be a threat to Sonic and his friends on a more consistent scale (most of those examples can be found in the Egg Fleet page). I won’t delve into too many specific examples, but those Badniks should scale much higher compared to the standard models and their feats could be noted on their pages.
Speed:
Now it is time for some speed, and oh boy this one is interesting. Most Badniks would likely have around Immobile-Superhuman speed, as they typically either do not move at all (Bloominator, Toxomister, Elephant Mecha, etc), or just move at an average or above average speed. However, some Badniks have been shown being able to keep up with Sonic (such as the Moto Bugs in Sonic Colors and a group of Caterkillers and Batbrains in the IDW comics), so I think those Badniks could range from Superhuman-Massively FTL+ depending on the situation.
Lifting Strength:
Not too much to discuss here, but there have been some interesting strength feats for the Badniks. In the opening for the original Sonic the Hedgehog from Sonic Origins, we can see that two Buzz Bombers are capable of carrying large capsules, Batbrains are also capable of carrying Caterkillers, and standard Badniks have been shown to be capable of carrying large crates. There are probably other examples, but this is another case of a stat varying depending on the Badnik.
Durability:
While most standard Badniks are typically easily destroyed fodder for Sonic and his friends, it doesn’t mean that the Badniks are completely lacking in the durability department. In Sonic Superstars, there is a large drone-like Badnik called the Tick-Tock Drone that can one shot Sonic (or another playable character) by detonating the factory. Notably, while the player does immediately die from the Tick-Tock Drone, none of the Badniks in Press Factory Zone Act 2 are seen being affected by the Tick-Tock Drone’s attack (as they are never seen being destroyed). Considering that the Badniks in Press Factory Zone are just standard models, it could be inferred that other Badniks should scale to this feat as well. Additionally, most 3D games between Sonic Heroes and Sonic Unleashed had most Badniks in certain areas being capable of tanking hits from Sonic and his friends before being destroyed, which should scale the Badniks to have even higher durability. Some other interesting standard Badnik durability feats include the metal variants of Spinner in Sonic Colors being capable of tanking Sonic’s Homing Attack multiple times without being harmed and the Crabmeats in Sonic Lost World being capable of counterattacking Sonic’s Homing Attack (though it only applies for this game) and being able to tank his Flying Kick attack (unlike most other Badniks).
As for Badniks who either take multiple hits to destroy, are near or completely indestructible, or can easily tank some attacks from the main cast before being fully destroyed, they would vastly outscale the standard Badnik models and have their durability likely scale to around the AP of the characters they can tank attacks from.
Intelligence:
While the Badnik pages say that the Badniks are at least Animalistic, I actually think they have better intelligence than just that. Starting with the biggest example of all, in the Sonic the Hedgehog 30th Anniversary Special issue from the IDW comics, we can clearly see the Badniks going out of their way to celebrate Dr. Eggman’s birthday each year during the "Dr. Eggman’s Birthday" story (even going out of their way to make special gifts based on Dr. Eggman’s interests). While you could argue that Dr. Eggman programmed his Badniks to do this, he himself has stated that he constantly told the Badniks to cut it out and yet it only encouraged them to celebrate his birthday even more (showing that the Badniks are celebrating Dr. Eggman’s birthday due to genuinely caring about him rather than being programmed to do so). Badniks have also shown being capable of feeling emotions in various other games and media, either in descriptions or in small animations, though these examples are not as major as the birthday one. One thing that is notable is the fact that the IDW comics showcase other Badniks outside of the classic era being capable of feeling emotions, which shows that the intelligence for most Badniks throughout the eras should be comparable to the classic Badniks. Despite this, the Badniks do have limits in their programming, as Dr. Eggman states in The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog that the Badniks capabilities are usually rather simple (mainly attempting to kill Sonic), so I would say that most Badniks should have High Animalistic intelligence (due to their nature and behavior usually paralleling more intelligent animals such as primates rather than basic killing machines).
Despite this, there are Badniks that have shown much more sentience and intelligence than the standard models (mainly more important members like Metal Sonic, the E-Series, and the Mirage Express), which I think should scale much higher compared to the standard models (who are High Animalistic).
Conclusion:
I hope that this thread helped shine light on the Badniks more impressive and overlooked feats, as I hope that this can help update the Badnik pages to place them in a more higher tier. If you have any questions about what tier the Badniks should be in or if you can note any other feats that I missed in this thread, please let me know in the replies.
