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The Ashen One vs The Bloodborne Hunter

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Ghosts are literally just intangible beings. So any attack that can touch intangibles can harm ghosts.

Just look at Mob from Mob Psycho 100. He fights spirits for a living with just his telekinesis. No soul manipulation required.
 
Hitting a Ghost:

1. Soul Manipulation- Assumes all Ghosts are souls

2. Ability to harm Incorporeal, Intangible, etc beings

3. Ability to harm beings across dimensions (often times the "Spirit world" is just another dimension, so this could fit)
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Hitting a Ghost:

1. Soul Manipulation- Assumes all Ghosts are souls

2. Ability to harm Incorporeal, Intangible, etc beings

3. Ability to harm beings across dimensions (often times the "Spirit world" is just another dimension, so this could fit)
Click to expand...
In the hunters case it would probably be soul manipulation considering there is a clear difference between soul and incorporeal in Bloodborne (I have to go to bed right now so I won't be able to respond to anything till later) good night.
 
It could be Soul Manipulation, but it would mean nothing in context to this thread as the Ashen One has durability equatable to his/her own (their Soul is used to power the First Flame).

So... sort of a dead end conversation, really.
 
Are you counting votes? I said inconclusive due to the nature of both characters being able to utilise Resurrection the same way, assuming that the Hunter has a form of Resurrection that is combat applicable. The Ashen One has two forms of Resurrection listed on the profile, and one is definitely combat applicable, and the other's is similar to the Hunter's.
 
Yes, I am counting. For reference, it currently stands at this:

The Hunter (Bloodborne): 3 (Bambu, Thereifir, Keeweed)

The Ashen One: 0

Inconclusive: 1 (TheHadouCyberspaceWitch)
 
Throughout fiction, ghosts are notable for being immune to physical attacks as they just phase through them.

In those same verses, that's all they are shown to be immune to. Magic, psychic abilities, anything that are not solely physical are shown to be able to harm ghosts and spirits. To say that harming ghosts is a form of soul manipulation is to say that all magic users and espers have soul manipulation since they can harm ghosts.

Because again, although ghosts lack a physical body, they are intangible. The ability to touch intangible beings is an ability in of itself. A character cannot have soul manipulation unless they are explicitly stated to have it.
 
@Arid Youre gonna have to make a CRT if you think so because there are a LOT of major characters on the wiki who have soul manip for harming and killing ghosts, including the Terrarian and Beerus
 
When you do, link it to me. I'll be very interested.
 
I have asked several times if the Resurrection method that is shared by the Ashen One and the Hunter is combat applicable. The Ashen One has two different methods of Resurrection, and the one that is not shared by the Hunter, I know is combat applicable.
 
Nevermind, I was misinterpreting how the Darksign worked. I don't even know why it counts as resurrection on his page. Okay, so are the resurrection methods used by either of them combat applicable? If so, then my vote remains inconclusive.
 
Well... I guess?

They can both get back to the battlefield within 24 Hours, so it technically counts.
 
Of course The Hunter could just pretty much cause him to hollow out with The Bloodletter, as it drives him completely insane.
 
Darksign causes the user to eventually lose their mind, anyway... Wait, if the Ashen One can use Darksign without losing their mind, would that not warrant a resistance to mind manipulation?
 
I would say that for the sake of this fight, no, resurrection is not combat applicable. They technically "died". that's good enough.

Few things.

The Ashen One is able to negate the healing of the Hunter (via Hunter Charm).

The Ashen One has a much more varied moveset than the Hunter due to access to more types of weapons and spells, and most weapons have their own unique inherent magical abilities. This would mean that the Ashen One could bypass Hunter's armor by using spells that go against its weakness.

I would agree with the logic that if the Ashen One can go fully Hollw (and they can) and retain their goals and memories, then that would signify a tendency to resist Mind Manip (as being Hollow is nearly the definition of insanity for an undead). I'm not saying Frenzy guaranteed won't hurt him, because it does harm the Hunter who would be acclimated to it, but it wouldn't be as severe as people seem to think, and remember that the Hunter's mind manip DOES hurt the Hunter as well.

AP wise, the two are essentially deadlocked. Hunter has the advantage to some degree, but that's with their biggest attack (Call Beyond) which has limited amounts of uses (namely, without specific runes, 2).

Ashen One is able to disrupt any boosts the Hunter applies to themselves via Silence or whatever that spell is called (makes a big circle and enemies cannot use stat boosts within range).

Remember that the Ashen One DID defeat the Soul of Cinder, an amalgamation of potentially hundreds of thousands of years (at least 9 Lords of Cinder, likely hundreds more) of experience. It out-classed something that vastly above it in skill.


My vote still goes towards the Hunter, but the Ashen One isn't as weak as many think. It has other advantages, so... keep in mind.
 
@Hadou That's fine, the point was that there are viable ways for the Ashen One to win. My vote is with high-diff anyways.
 
So. We now stand at this...

The Hunter (Bloodborne): 3

The Ashen One: 1

Inconclusive: 0

It should be noted that the Ashen One has defeated beings with better agility before. In fact, the same boss is often compared to Bloodborne by the saying of something along the lines of "She's in Dark Souls but moves like a Bloodborne boss." I'm speaking, of course, of Sister Friede. She is far more agile than the Ashen One and can go invisible, among other abilities.

So... keep in mind.
 
The hunter also has ways to cancel healing. I will give the ashen one mind resistance though he can die hundreds and not go insane even after going hallow from the power boost pilgrim guy. I still have to give this to the hunter, he is both more agile and has defeated more agile opponents (sister Friede and Geal vs Gehrman, OoK, Maria, most hunters, and many others). The hunter also has more opponents at the start of the fight due to his weapons being two in one and he should have the intelligence advantage. But I think this fight would be harder then I orginal thought, the ashen one has more versatility over all and has a giant experience and lifting strength advantage.
 
My point wasn't to say that the Ashen One had more agile enemy kills, just that they did exist- there is a premise for the Ashen One being able to fight the Hunter and deal with their agility. As for an intelligence advantage... I'd say inconclusive on that end, as 99 Intelligence and 99 Faith should equate to basically the same thing as 99 Arcane (equal intelligence). No real reason to assume otherwise.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
My point wasn't to say that the Ashen One had more agile enemy kills, just that they did exist- there is a premise for the Ashen One being able to fight the Hunter and deal with their agility. As for an intelligence advantage... I'd say inconclusive on that end, as 99 Intelligence and 99 Faith should equate to basically the same thing as 99 Arcane (equal intelligence). No real reason to assume otherwise.
Click to expand...
1: when I was talking about agility; I know the ashen one has defeat agile opponents but the hunter is both agile and has defeated agile opponents meaning he both has experienced with it and has it, which is better then the ashen one just having experience with it. 2: The main plot point of bloodborne is trying to become smart enough to understand the great ones, who are above all of humanity in intelligence, meanwhile the ashen one is only at peak human intelligence in his games universe
 
Humans are blatantly superhuman in Dark Souls anyways, but... I see your point. That said, the Hunter is intelligent but I still wouldn't say it is vastly superior to the Ashen One. Still, I see what you mean.
 
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