tensura translation issue

[Reiner04]

I don't think staff aware of this.



Someone comes up with an idea and the majority follow it without question.

I am very well aware, though. I was under the impression that Astral was speaking on behalf of all supporters, claiming that fan translations are of bad quality, which forced him to use MTL. This is considering that those and many other threads were accepted. If fan translations were never of bad quality, then basing one's argument on that itself would be a rule violation. I wasn’t aware nor was I supposed to be that fan translations are usable when arguments have been made based on the claim that they are bad. It's on supporters to clarify why it is otherwise which @PrimeHydra64 already did previously. It's better to let translations helpers do their work and move on than go stick on samething sorted out way b4.

 

[RoninSlayer200]

Question: Since it seems like everyone decided to translate WN stuff instead of completely removing the verse, will the profiles be reverted since the staff agrees with reverting them so far?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I am very well aware, though. I was under the impression that Astral was speaking on behalf of all supporters, claiming that fan translations are of bad quality, which forced him to use MTL. This is considering that those and many other threads were accepted. If fan translations were never of bad quality, then basing one's argument on that itself would be a rule violation. I wasn’t aware nor was I supposed to be that fan translations are usable when arguments have been made based on the claim that they are bad. It's on supporters to clarify why it is otherwise which @PrimeHydra64 already did previously. It's better to let translations helpers do their work and move on than go stick on samething sorted out way b4.

It is not bad quality, but rather most scaling terms and such have been removed due to focusing on the story. This does not mean it was changed in any way, shape, or form, but rather phrased in a way that can't be used for scaling. (This is not always true)

Though it's been years since I read the WN, so I may be extremely wrong in this claim that it can't be used for scaling, but I can say it's by no means "bad quality"

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Someone comes up with an idea and the majority follow it without question.

It's almost like this info came up thanks to asking for stuff be rechecked, huh

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

It's a common assumption made due to the relations between god and Veldanava in the LN, many assume they are the same in the WN as well, but that is not true.

Let's get some facts straight.

True dragons are also known as "Holy Spirits."
Great Spirits are the foundation of the world, the so-called 8 pillars of the Great Holy Spirit

Using this translation for now

The Great Holy Spirit is the God.

The main misconception here is that "holy Spirit" refers to Veldanava or the great Holy Spirit, but in truth, it just means True Dragons.

So yes, Veldanava is a True Dragon, He is a Holy Spirit, but not the Great Holy spirit. He also helped shaped the world due to his participation of creating beings


Also, in the WN, It's Ramiri's that's God's avatar or apostle or whatever you wanna call it.

Blud genuinely yapping. Veldanava true form is the great Holy Spirit and the rest of the true dragons are holy spirits. In both LN and WN ramiris are apostles responsible for blessing people. Just entirely ignored the thread, hop on discord, just blatantly spreading misinformation

 

[Reiner04]

It is not bad quality, but rather most scaling terms and such have been removed due to focusing on the story. This does not mean it was changed in any way, shape, or form, but rather phrased in a way that can't be used for scaling. (This is not always true)

Though it's been years since I read the WN, so I may be extremely wrong in this claim that it can't be used for scaling, but I can say it's by no means "bad quality"

I will still prefer them being used over MTLs, but not more than what our translation helpers have translated, obviously.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I will still prefer them being used over MTLs, but not more than what our translation helpers have translated, obviously.

Same, the biggest example of it messing up scaling are the following explanation for "turn null"
raw
Energy beyond dimension
otl (fan translation)
Super tier ability
(I wish I could provide the raws, but I don't have access to them)

Blud genuinely yapping. Veldanava true form is the great Holy Spirit and the rest of the true dragons are holy spirits. In both LN and WN ramiris are apostles responsible for blessing people.

We have discussed and debated this repeatedly, and we have come to the conclusion that we disagree with each other. You are the one who refuses to accept anyone disagreeing with you.

Just entirely ignored the thread

Peak argument

hop on discord, just blatantly spreading misinformation

I do hope You realise, their is a reason why I left the servers you were in and you were kicked from the main scaling server.
When someone disagrees with you, they are always wrong and ignoring/misinterpreting things.
I won't bother debating with you since it will go nowhere.

 

[MrTayman616]

It is not bad quality, but rather most scaling terms and such have been removed due to focusing on the story. This does not mean it was changed in any way, shape, or form, but rather phrased in a way that can't be used for scaling. (This is not always true)

Though it's been years since I read the WN, so I may be extremely wrong in this claim that it can't be used for scaling, but I can say it's by no means "bad quality"

There is a statement that says "Holy Spirit created the world".

Is there any statement in the web novel that says the creator of the world is "The great Holy Spirit"

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Same, the biggest example of it messing up scaling are the following explanation for "turn null"
raw
Energy beyond dimension
otl (fan translation)
Super tier ability
(I wish I could provide the raws, but I don't have access to them)



We have discussed and debated this repeatedly, and we have come to the conclusion that we disagree with each other. You are the one who refuses to accept anyone disagreeing with you.

Haven’t debated you on this topic.

Peak argument

A thread is there for a reason..

I do hope You realise, there is a reason why I left the servers you were in and you were kicked from the main scaling server.

I was kicked in reference to talking about a different verse. (And I was literally added back)

When someone disagrees with you, they are always wrong and ignoring/misinterpreting things.
I won't bother debating with you since it will go nowhere.

I never claimed I am always right, simply your reasoning isn’t what was proposed nor accepted. And was not at all what was happening.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I was under the impression that Astral was speaking on behalf of all supporters, claiming that fan translations are of bad quality, which forced him to use MTL

Realistically, I think what drives Astral to use MTL is not so much the translation errors, but the idea that the expressions can be translated differently depend on context and these translations will make will help him in revisions.

If fan translations were never of bad quality, then basing one's argument on that itself would be a rule violation. I wasn’t aware nor was I supposed to be that fan translations are usable when arguments have been made based on the claim that they are bad

The fact that the translations are not bad does not prevent a better translation or a different translation depending on the context. That is why Astral resorted to MTL/its own translations sometimes in these revisions.

It's almost like this info came up thanks to asking for stuff be rechecked, huh

What does what I say have to do with checking translations?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

There is a statement that says "Holy Spirit created the world".

Is there any statement in the web novel that says the creator of the world is "The great Holy Spirit"

I thought this was already talked about here

Post in thread 'Official Translation Requests Thread (New forum)'
https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translation-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-7006963

 

[MrTayman616]

I thought this was already talked about here

Link's wrong.

 

[Reiner04]

Realistically, I think what drives Astral to use MTL is not so much the translation errors, but the idea that the expressions can be translated differently depend on context and these translations will make will help him in revisions.

What he said is clearly what he said. There is no "depends of context" here. So we do not need to discuss something very obvious.

The fact that the translations are not bad does not prevent a better translation or a different translation depending on the context. That is why Astral resorted to MTL/its own translations many times in these revisions.

We prefer "reliable fan translations over MTLs", so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Moreover, Astral is banned for using his own translations, which makes this conversation pointless, to say the least. As I said, it’s derailing the thread from its original intentions. Moving on.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Link's wrong.

I edited it

 

[MrTayman616]

I edited it

That absolutely means nothing.

just because you added "great" there didn't make it an entirely new existence.

"God, Oh great God.". same in japanese as well.

Also like i said, the statement is that "Holy Spirit created the world". Not "The great Holy spirit"

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

There is a statement that says "Holy Spirit created the world".

Is there any statement in the web novel that says the creator of the world is "The great Holy Spirit"

I am guessing you mean this?

The biggest issue is that "Holy Spirit" in this case refers to the Great Holy Spirit and not True dragons...

I am not sure how much we have, since been a while since I read it, I have asked someone more knowledgeable about the WN than me if we have more such statements.

But yeah, the scan I sent shows the Great Holy Spirit giving birth to the world, and the 8 Great Spirits. (and existed before it)

 

[MrTayman616]

I am guessing you mean this?

The biggest issue is that "Holy Spirit" in this case refers to the Great Holy Spirit and not True dragons...

I am not sure how much we have, since been a while since I read it, I have asked someone more knowledgeable about the WN than me if we have more such statements.

But yeah, the scan I sent shows the Great Holy Spirit giving birth to the world, and the 8 Great Spirits. (and existed before it)

There is a religious about Holy spirit, right? is that religious accurate or etc.?

Also that line there is the only time they used "the great holy spirit" in the entire web novel. (as far as i know)

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

That absolutely means nothing.

just because you added "great" there didn't make it an entirely new existence.

"God, Oh great God.". same in japanese as well.

Also like i said, the statement is that "Holy Spirit created the world". Not "The great Holy spirit"

The fact great holy spirit exists there and is literally the source of holy spirits means they are two different things, they are literally different things in verse as well.

I don’t know what you are trying to say.

Great Holy Spirit is the source of power.

Holy spirits are power itself. They obviously cannot be the same

 

[CodeCCLL]

What he said is clearly what he said. There is no "depends of context" here. So we do not need to discuss something very obvious.

We prefer "reliable fan translations over MTLs", so I don’t know what you’re talking about. Moreover, Astral is banned for using his own translations, which makes this conversation pointless, to say the least. As I said, it’s derailing the thread from its original intentions. Moving on.

Did you actually read what I said in your first comment? Yes, Astral is not a good translator and everyone here knows that Astral banned for that reason. That's exactly why no one should have jumped to the conclusion that "fan translations are not reliable" just because Astral said "fan translations are bad".

That's exactly my problem. There's a translation that's been around for many years and everyone is jumping to the conclusion that fan translations are not reliable based on the comment of someone who is not knowledgeable about translations.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

There is a religious about Holy spirit, right? is that religious accurate or etc.?

I don't fully understand what you mean by this.

Also that line there is the only time they used "the great holy spirit" in the entire web novel. (as far as i know)

Don't remember the Web novel well enough to say how many times it was used, but I do remember being annoyed how so many different interpretations were possible, just like the Fluid definition of a "world" in Tensurra...


But speaking about religion, in Tensura, everything has a "soul", and everything is part of the "great spirits", which are the so-called "pillars" of the Great Holy Spirit.

Here is the Wiki's definition of the Great Holy Spirit and Veldanava. (Web novel edition of course)
Not gonna claim that it is 100% facts due to being on the wiki, but what I do claim is that it will bring a much better understanding of how we treat the 2 beings.

 

[Worthless]

I know I'm not the only one who saw that post where Fuse answered the question about whether the Great Holy Spirit is Veldanava and he said no

 

[PrimeHydra64]

I know I'm not the only one who saw that post where Fuse answered the question about whether the Great Holy Spirit is Veldanava and he said no

That is the point of the first thread https://vsbattles.com/threads/tensura-wn-major-revision-part-1.169675/

 

[MrTayman616]

Holy Spirit is the source/origin of the world. Holy spirit created the world.

"Belief in Holy Spirit", "Blessing of the Holy Spirit" "Loved by the Holy Spirit" , "---- only god equivalent to the Holy Spirit ...."

True Dragons are lumps of holy spirit's energy.
-----
Veldora isn't a holy spirit or god by the way. At least not based on this since this is wrong.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Holy Spirit is the source/origin of the world. Holy spirit created the world.

Great Holy Spirit = the Holy Spirit ≠Holy Spirits

"Belief in Holy Spirit", "Blessing of the Holy Spirit" "Loved by the Holy Spirit" , "---- only god equivalent to the Holy Spirit ...."

True Dragons are lumps of holy spirit's energy.
-----
Veldora isn't a holy spirit or god by the way. At least not based on this since this is wrong.

veldora ≠ veldanava. Also what about it is wrong?

 

[Reiner04]

Did you actually read what I said in your first comment? Yes, Astral is not a good translator and everyone here knows that Astral banned for that reason. That's exactly why no one should have jumped to the conclusion that "fan translations are not reliable" just because Astral said "fan translations are bad".

That's exactly my problem. There's a translation that's been around for many years and everyone is jumping to the conclusion that fan translations are not reliable based on the comment of someone who is not knowledgeable about translations.

https://images-ext-1.**********.net/external/n6Bn9ko4Je9Zn1u7oYEQ8YQx7wi9ZzZZHE-ZXTiPx0A/https/cdn.**********.com/emojis/957849085707186217.png
You don’t need to be a 'translation expert' to make such a statement. I don’t know why he made that statement, okay? Whether it was because he asked some of his friends or all the supporters reached that conclusion after finding continuous issues (from whatever source). I don’t know, okay? So, I didn’t draw any conclusions based on Astral’s statement.

We reached that conclusion because it was unanimously accepted that fan translations are not reliable and bad by all supporters present there. If they were reliable and Astral was still using MTL to satisfy his upgrade hunger, then someone should have reported him. If the supporters were fine with it, what could I do? I don’t see any point in this. Reading that thread it also seems that all supporters rather agree with Astral that Raws needs to be rechecked b4 being used due to so called Translation issues so if supporters who are contributing to the upgrades are saying there are Translation issues, then they must have a reason? Thats the very obvious judgement one can come across. unless they all blindly agreed which is not my fault. So, claiming that we reached a conclusion based solely on Astral's comment is obviously baseless here. Why is this even being argued. No more comments on this. Threads has moved way ahead to argue smth left way behind. You can continue on my wall if u wish.

@Worthless Everyone is trying their best to help out here, one more insult to members here and I might hand out a thread ban.

 

[Worthless]

It's my honest opinion with not a single bit of malice or anything behind it but okay

 

[MrTayman616]

veldora ≠ veldanava. Also what about it is wrong?

I know. also nvm, the wrong thing.

Great Holy Spirit = the Holy Spirit ≠Holy Spirits

Thx.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Astral was still using MTL to satisfy his upgrade hunger, then someone should have reported him If the supporters were fine with it,

I can't speak for the others, but rest assured I've warned Astral about their translations many times. However, it didn't seem like something to report to me in that times because the fan translations were always linked as well and the staff could see how it was translated in the fan translation as well.

I won't comment further because it really doesn't go anywhere.

I know I'm not the only one who saw that post where Fuse answered the question about whether the Great Holy Spirit is Veldanava and he said no

Sure, but for some reasons it is still a topic of discussion even in 2025.

 

[Amalyris]

All depends on how you make a context or internal meaning(idk if that is what it is called since I forgor)

How everyone understand things is dependant on how others understand it, just like how some people think

World=Planet

 

[Fixxed]

I think fan translation can be used honestly, but yeah it better for asking our tl helper for translate it

As for astral translation, i already say in some of his thread that his translation are not only a misstranslation or an mtl but a manipulating translation, he literally manipulating the translation for make people follow what he want to argue

For example this
He translate this "虚無に力が満ちている" as "The void is fully embraced with Power" for lead people to think "the power" encompassing the void

Even if you translate that with MTL that will say
"The void is full of power" google translate
"The emptiness is filled with power" deepL
Our tl helper literally saying the same
"Nihility/Nothingness is brimming with power."

Soo the context mean the power being full inside the nothingness but astral leads people to think the power or he say as the holy spirit encompassing even the nothingness

So what i think here this is just not about MTL, but a dishonest and misslead translation

...

...

...

...

...

What you guys think?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

What you guys think?

I do hope you realize that all of this has already been reported, investigated, and judged by staff members. (Led by @Agnaa )

So can you stop trying to divert the current discussion and blame Astral and tensura more?

 

[Fixxed]

I do hope you realize that all of this has already been reported, investigated, and judged by staff members. (Led by @Agnaa )

So can you stop trying to divert the current discussion and blame Astral and tensura more?

No they just report a MTL not a dishonest tl

Bruh i just blame astral, where you get i blame tensura there? And this thread is about astral translation soo i just comment on the main topic of this thread, the current discussion is your own topic i dont really care about that

 

[CodeCCLL]

I do hope you realize that all of this

You can't say that all of this has come to the fore.

No they just report a MTL not a dishonest tl

Yes, you need to prepare a different report at this point.

TenSura WN Major Revision - Part 2

Introduction Hello everyone, hope ya'll are doing good. This is the continuation to the previously accepted thread, Part 2 to be exact. This thread will be focusing on abilities for True Dragons, and on a minor side, an ability for Demons. As always, please refrain from any toxic behavior and...

vsbattles.com

For example, I didn't report it at the time, but the point I made here could also possibly be an example of misleading translation.

 

[Reiner04]

I think fan translation can be used honestly, but yeah it better for asking our tl helper for translate it

As for astral translation, i already say in some of his thread that his translation are not only a misstranslation or an mtl but a manipulating translation, he literally manipulating the translation for make people follow what he want to argue

For example this
He translate this "虚無に力が満ちている" as "The void is fully embraced with Power" for lead people to think "the power" encompassing the void

Even if you translate that with MTL that will say
"The void is full of power" google translate
"The emptiness is filled with power" deepL
Our tl helper literally saying the same
"Nihility/Nothingness is brimming with power."

Soo the context mean the power being full inside the nothingness but astral leads people to think the power or he say as the holy spirit encompassing even the nothingness

So what i think here this is just not about MTL, but a dishonest and misslead translation





What you guys think?

I have already seen enough to know how manipulative Astral has been across his threads, going as far as to invalidate a reliable fan translation just so he could replace it with his own MTL-based translation, where he could insert words that may favor his objective. However, you would need to make a separate report about this in RVR or a private report. This issue is extremely serious if it happened the way I understand it.

 

[Reiner04]

I think fan translation can be used honestly, but yeah it better for asking our tl helper for translate it

As for astral translation, i already say in some of his thread that his translation are not only a misstranslation or an mtl but a manipulating translation, he literally manipulating the translation for make people follow what he want to argue

For example this
He translate this "虚無に力が満ちている" as "The void is fully embraced with Power" for lead people to think "the power" encompassing the void

Even if you translate that with MTL that will say
"The void is full of power" google translate
"The emptiness is filled with power" deepL
Our tl helper literally saying the same
"Nihility/Nothingness is brimming with power."

Soo the context mean the power being full inside the nothingness but astral leads people to think the power or he say as the holy spirit encompassing even the nothingness

So what i think here this is just not about MTL, but a dishonest and misslead translation





What you guys think?

Actually I'll direct it to RVR rn.

 

[Robo432343]

Actually I'll direct it to RVR rn.

no

 

[Lycoris4812]

Actually I'll direct it to RVR rn.

Would Astral get the chance to defend himself.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

How the **** did popular Japanese LN/WN verse are this ******?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Get back on track, people.

 

[Reiner04]

bump

TLHs stay busy since there are a lot of translations to work on. I’d suggest bumping these kinds of threads after the same amount of time as a TL thread, at least 7 days (or maybe longer, considering the workload here).