Tensura - Some more Speed stuff

[EldemadeDityjon]

I literally asked for either you or Tatsumi to provide evidence, even a single scan, that the transmission of information between Information Particles can happen without direct contact between particles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're the one claiming that information particles can travel between different time periods, yet you haven't provided a single scan to support that claim. So how does the burden suddenly fall on everyone else to disprove an unsupported assertion? Don't misunderstand—I understand your argument about characters potentially achieving immeasurable speed through movement and your interpretation of the SOL statements, even though I disagree. That's not the issue here. The issue is the additional claim you're making that by touching information particles, characters can interact with different points in time. Where is that actually stated or demonstrated? What scan explicitly supports that interpretation?

Even Astral's scan only shows information transfer, not Digital Lifeforms themselves touching different points in time. You should also know that Rimuru and Ciel were only able to send information to Shuna because they were connected through the Soul Corridor while Rimuru had been BFR'd into the future. That's a very specific circumstance.

Nothing in the series shows Rimuru remaining in the present and freely sending information to events that have already happened in the past, nor does it show him communicating with arbitrary points in time at will. More importantly, where is the evidence that every other Digital Lifeform can do this? Even if you grant Rimuru's feat, it's tied to his Soul Corridor connection, not to a general property of information particles. And even then, none of this demonstrates that their physical bodies can move to different time periods or that they can inherently perceive the past or future. The series consistently shows that characters require temporal coordinates or a specific method to travel back and forth through time, which directly contradicts the idea that merely interacting with information particles grants unrestricted access to different points in time.

If you can provide that, please do so; if not, then I have no other explanation for how two Information Particles in different times are able the 'touch' each other.

Regardless of the distance between them, as long as the 'information particles' exist within a perceptible space, the transfer happens instantaneously. In other words, 'information particles' transcend spacetime.

(Sir Rimuru, I have connected my thoughts to Ultima. I will send her coordinates over to Sir Veldora immediately.)

Whoa! Diablo, of all people, had just interrupted us.

No matter the distance, Spatial Transport is possible even in suspended space if you have the right coordinate data. Since Ultima is in the area, I shared in her senses and had her acquire the needed data.

Um, okay? So, like, that was possible because of our soul corridor connections?

Yes, exactly.

Sharing vision or transmitting information doesn't automatically mean the character themselves can travel to a different point in time or a different location. Those are two separate abilities. Based on the scans, the movement speed of information particles is still stated to be constant, while the transfer of information is instantaneous once the required conditions are met.

To make you understand more easily, consider information particles as a bridge where information transfer is instantaneous, while the characters themselves still move at a constant speed that doesn't surpass FTL.

From what I'm seeing, that information transfer is limited to skills or harmless thought-based communication. I don't see any evidence that it applies to actual combat.

To themselves to move they need teleportation or time travel if they want to go to different time period even with acquiring the data.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I think Infinite Attack Speed & Combat Speed is fine based off of the scans you sent me, but I'm iffy about Movement Speed and the rest.

Yeah. I'll just say the same I said on discord in case the other staff want to know or have a different opinion.

It was brought up that the Speed of Infons isn't infinite, reason being because apparently the conversation between Chloe and Rimuru happening through IP transfer had a time lag while between him and Ciel there was no lag. This is the scan.

It was addressed using the idea that the lag wasn't caused by data particles themselves but due to Rimuru at the time not having enough processing speed to not cause lag (as their speed is repeatedly stated to be constant even in the last volume). In the same scan, Rimuru specifically points out why there's lag between his convo with Chloe and himself but not between Ciel and himself.

The reason is cuz Ciel is a part of Rimuru. Since the entire emergency response mode (which allows rimuru to perceive suspended world in this specific scan) is actually managed by Ciel, not Rimuru himself (he isn't a dlf yet), Ciel can see everything at infinite speed and share it with rimuru instantly. But if Rimuru wants to send out his own thoughts to someone else and process their thoughts as well, he has to think by himself, instead of relying on Ciel. This need to process information at finite speed for himself is what causes the lag, not the movement of data particles.

Otherwise, there's no way to explain why emergency mode's reaction and perception speed is uniform.
Think of it like this. When we see the sun, we are not actually seeing the "present" Sun but a sun that's 8 minutes in the past. So if the sun disappeared, we wouldn't know for 8 minutes (this is a pretty popular topic and yt shorts related to it come often, so I assume I don't need to explain this in more details). Likewise, let's say there's a 5 second lag in information particle movement, that means whatever Rimuru perceives happens 5 seconds in the past. He won't be able to see the actual present. But then how would he respond to an attack?? I mean, 5 seconds is more than enough to slash someone with a sword, so by the time Rimuru himself receives info about a sword coming his way, it would have already... sliced him 0_0

This is also why Rimuru couldn't process when Chloe kissed him even during emergency mode. Chloe has infinite speed spatially, but Rimuru's mind by itself can't process things at infinite speed. It took him time to process that chloe kissed him. It's also why Rimuru could perfectly perceive michael's attack live (as it happened) and Chloe could respond to defend rimuru without any delay.

I would say assuming that data particles require time to travel long distances causes inconsistencies (besides, it is literally said they can travel any distance without time lag). Since IP have a constant/fixed/unchanging speed (to the point where they can go from rest to maximum speed instantly), for them travel speed = movement speed = combat = reaction = perception etc etc.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Snip

By the way, could you please ping the other staff that have participated so far (Data, Elizhaa and KingTempest) in case they changed their vote or if their opinion is
different?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

@SomebodyData @Elizhaa @KingTempest

What do you think about the conclusions we've reached?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

@SomebodyData @Elizhaa @KingTempest

What do you think about the conclusions we've reached?

oof, forgot raiki and ddm

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're the one claiming that information particles can travel between different time periods, yet you haven't provided a single scan to support that claim. So how does the burden suddenly fall on everyone else to disprove an unsupported assertion? Don't misunderstand—I understand your argument about characters potentially achieving immeasurable speed through movement and your interpretation of the SOL statements, even though I disagree. That's not the issue here. The issue is the additional claim you're making that by touching information particles, characters can interact with different points in time. Where is that actually stated or demonstrated? What scan explicitly supports that interpretation?

All I said was that Information Particles can interact with different points in time; how that affects characters is up to what's been shown in the novel.

Even Astral's scan only shows information transfer, not Digital Lifeforms themselves touching different points in time. You should also know that Rimuru and Ciel were only able to send information to Shuna because they were connected through the Soul Corridor while Rimuru had been BFR'd into the future. That's a very specific circumstance.

What I said above.

Nothing in the series shows Rimuru remaining in the present and freely sending information to events that have already happened in the past, nor does it show him communicating with arbitrary points in time at will. More importantly, where is the evidence that every other Digital Lifeform can do this? Even if you grant Rimuru's feat, it's tied to his Soul Corridor connection, not to a general property of information particles. And even then, none of this demonstrates that their physical bodies can move to different time periods or that they can inherently perceive the past or future. The series consistently shows that characters require temporal coordinates or a specific method to travel back and forth through time, which directly contradicts the idea that merely interacting with information particles grants unrestricted access to different points in time.

Astral already covered this, saying it will be listed as a weakness that they require coordinates.

Sharing vision or transmitting information doesn't automatically mean the character themselves can travel to a different point in time or a different location. Those are two separate abilities. Based on the scans, the movement speed of information particles is still stated to be constant, while the transfer of information is instantaneous once the required conditions are met.

I told Astral this one discord, that just because Information Particles have Immeasurable Speed properties doesn't mean I think they can run to the past, or send attacks into the future.

Spatially, I still believe Information Particles have a finite movement speed.

To make you understand more easily, consider information particles as a bridge where information transfer is instantaneous, while the characters themselves still move at a constant speed that doesn't surpass FTL.

Which is why I disagreed with Infinite Movement Speed.

From what I'm seeing, that information transfer is limited to skills or harmless thought-based communication. I don't see any evidence that it applies to actual combat.

To themselves to move they need teleportation or time travel if they want to go to different time period even with acquiring the data.

I adressed this already.

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

What do you think about the conclusions we've reached?

oof, forgot raiki and ddm

On the matter of Immeasurable speed, I'm of the same opinion as Spaceman here. They should have Immeasurable Speed, but whether they can attack the past or future should be judged case by case (including during a versus thread itself) since that requires them knowing the coordinates of those points in Space-Time. It's best added as a Note next to their speed rating.

However, on the other hand, I think they should have a general speed instead of only combat and reaction speed. Astral's explanation on time lag makes more sense to me.
@DarkDragonMedeus what do you think?

 

[Vietthai96]

Isn't sending information to different points in time just range + time travel feat?. How do you even get immeasurable speed from that?

Speed is how fast you can do something, if the verse narratively capped speed at SoL with some FTL reaction then there should be no Immeasurable speed. There is no such a thing as moving at finite speed but still immeasurable speed due to travelling through time, that just finite speed plus time travel

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

All I said was that Information Particles can interact with different points in time; how that affects characters is up to what's been shown in the novel.

What I said above.

Astral already covered this, saying it will be listed as a weakness that they require coordinates.

I told Astral this one discord, that just because Information Particles have Immeasurable Speed properties doesn't mean I think they can run to the past, or send attacks into the future.

Spatially, I still believe Information Particles have a finite movement speed.

Which is why I disagreed with Infinite Movement Speed.

I adressed this already.

Okay, correct me your whole point comes from the idea that Information Particles that interacting instantly grants this speed. However, that doesn't mean every verse has the same setup. Even then, versus matches are usually conducted under neutral ground, where this specific mechanic shouldn't automatically apply. So, I'd like clarification on this case to prevent supporters from misusing this.

So this supposed reading different coordinates in different time and transmitting information shouldn't be logically possible unless match is set up in Tensura or similar cased verses or you specify the ground the give them advantage. So what are limitations you are proposing?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

On the matter of Immeasurable speed, I'm of the same opinion as Spaceman here. They should have Immeasurable Speed, but whether they can attack the past or future should be judged case by case (including during a versus thread itself) since that requires them knowing the coordinates of those points in Space-Time. It's best added as a Note next to their speed rating.

However, on the other hand, I think they should have a general speed instead of only combat and reaction speed. Astral's explanation on time lag makes more sense to me.
@DarkDragonMedeus what do you think?

Sounds good to me.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Isn't sending information to different points in time just range + time travel feat?. How do you even get immeasurable speed from that?

From what I've observed, Information Particles can only transmit Information to one another by touching one another. By touching, I mean moving and touching one another.

So for Information Particles in different periods to touch one another, they must be moving through time and 'touching' one another.

Speed is how fast you can do something, if the verse narratively capped speed at SoL with some FTL reaction then there should be no Immeasurable speed. There is no such a thing as moving at finite speed but still immeasurable speed due to travelling through time, that just finite speed plus time travel

Immeasurable speed can work more like a special property added to movement, not just raw speed.

Being able to move through time does not automatically mean someone can travel any distance instantly. A character might be able to walk into the past or future, but their actual movement through space could still be normal.

They can choose when they appear, but not necessarily where they appear.

So it is possible to have SoL Spatial Speed, but Immeasurable Speed temporally.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Isn't sending information to different points in time just range + time travel feat?. How do you even get immeasurable speed from that?

┐⁠(⁠ ⁠∵⁠ ⁠)⁠┌

Digital Lifeforms in Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken, are Spiritual Lifeforms that transformed their material body into Information Particles and they can purely exist in information form.

Species (Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken)

Spiritual Lifeforms are characters in Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken, they are almost god-like existences that need only their mind to remain alive. They're a step above Demi-Spiritual Lifeforms and have transcended the body entirely, making them effectively immortal they are also known as...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Tatsumi504]

Immeasurable speed can work more like a special property added to movement, not just raw speed.

Being able to move through time does not automatically mean someone can travel any distance instantly. A character might be able to walk into the past or future, but their actual movement through space could still be normal.

They can choose when they appear, but not necessarily where they appear.

So it is possible to have SoL Spatial Speed, but Immeasurable Speed temporally.

It's honestly not, there's a distinction for a reason. A time manipulator that can send attacks into the past wouldn't get immeasurable attack speed. This is because the target of the attack in the past or future will still be able to react to the attacks finite speed regardless. True immeasurable movement, combat or attacks cannot be reacted to without the same level of speed.

The purpose of immeasurable speed is to violate linear time through sheer speed alone. What you're proposing is a new standard where every lower speed can be faster than immeasurable speed

 

[Vietthai96]

From what I've observed, Information Particles can only transmit Information to one another by touching one another. By touching, I mean moving and touching one another.

So for Information Particles in different periods to touch one another, they must be moving through time and 'touching' one another.

That is still time travel, or at best you can stretching it to immeasurable travel speed

Immeasurable speed can work more like a special property added to movement, not just raw speed.

Being able to move through time does not automatically mean someone can travel any distance instantly. A character might be able to walk into the past or future, but their actual movement through space could still be normal.

They can choose when they appear, but not necessarily where they appear.

So it is possible to have SoL Spatial Speed, but Immeasurable Speed temporally.

No, that not how standard work, you are practically inventing a completely new standard in this scenario, speed is how fact you do something, it is the notion of "before" and "after", causality.

The reason Immeasurable speed is fastest speed rating is because it is allows to act beyond linear causality, if you can travel through time yet being bound by linear causality in spartial movement then you aren't even immeasurable speed. Unless you want to say to me time < space

What you are suggesting is separating Immeasurable speed from the rest of speed rating, and a person with finite speed can be faster than immeasurable speed if said person is faster in spartial movement. And we literally have Time Travel as an ability for these cases