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The #1 secretary quote when she fights the Holy Knights is a really good one.NeoSuperior said:
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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 9
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
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@Neo Not really, either way is fine with me.
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Great to see the Diablo profile is here (why does he have immortality type 1 though? I haven't seen that issue being addressed anywhere in the LN/manga/anime canon yet).
But now here is an issue: How do we explain the extreme discrepancy between Arch Daemon Diablo being High 7-A fighting "somewhat equally" against At least 7-C Peak Shizue? I mean yes, Shizue and all of Rank A+ are in general rather low-balled here due to the lack of destructive feats and escpacially the rather vague and at times inconsistent classification of "A+".
Do we just assume that Diablo held back extremely? In that case Shizue should get "High 7-A with Inferno Flame", since she was able to actually hurt Diablo. Or do we assume that Diablo was significantly weaker in comparison to when Rimuru summoned him, due to his "offering" only being able to sustain him for 3 days in the material world?
But now here is an issue: How do we explain the extreme discrepancy between Arch Daemon Diablo being High 7-A fighting "somewhat equally" against At least 7-C Peak Shizue? I mean yes, Shizue and all of Rank A+ are in general rather low-balled here due to the lack of destructive feats and escpacially the rather vague and at times inconsistent classification of "A+".
Do we just assume that Diablo held back extremely? In that case Shizue should get "High 7-A with Inferno Flame", since she was able to actually hurt Diablo. Or do we assume that Diablo was significantly weaker in comparison to when Rimuru summoned him, due to his "offering" only being able to sustain him for 3 days in the material world?
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By virtue of the fact he is extremely old.
As i already said, the fact her sword could pierce an Arc Demon, peak Shizue should be upgraded, and this was a named Arc Demon so superior to regular ones.
Inferno flame is clearly her strongest ability which left her drained afterwards, so she should scale to Diablo with it i think.
As i already said, the fact her sword could pierce an Arc Demon, peak Shizue should be upgraded, and this was a named Arc Demon so superior to regular ones.
Inferno flame is clearly her strongest ability which left her drained afterwards, so she should scale to Diablo with it i think.
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"extremely old" =/= immortality type 1, as it could just be very high Longevity instead. I mean, isn't that why we didn't add that immortality type 1 to anyone else like Rimuru yet either?
If we scale Shizue up like that, then Shizue with unleashed Ifrit (i.e. "White Flame Mode") would be stronger than when Ifrit took over control of Shizue's body. I mean she kind of has to, otherwise her peak form would scale to Ifrit and "Shizue with Ifrit", which was shown to be definitly stronger than just herself, would somehow have the exact same AP due to her Peak form only being able to scale to Ifrit's 7-A "half as strong as Orc Disaster" scaling.
If we scale Shizue up like that, then Shizue with unleashed Ifrit (i.e. "White Flame Mode") would be stronger than when Ifrit took over control of Shizue's body. I mean she kind of has to, otherwise her peak form would scale to Ifrit and "Shizue with Ifrit", which was shown to be definitly stronger than just herself, would somehow have the exact same AP due to her Peak form only being able to scale to Ifrit's 7-A "half as strong as Orc Disaster" scaling.
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Rimuru isn't old though, but Longevity is a pretty common thing for high magic born, so you have a point, it should just be longevity for now.
Well yea, this is for her peak so don't really see the issue. I mean unless we say Ifrit is exactly the same as before when she was in her peak? Wouldn't it make more sense if Ifrit also got weaker?
Otherwise it is indeed a major issue. Ifrit being weaker when she is retired is the only way to explain the discrepancies.
Well yea, this is for her peak so don't really see the issue. I mean unless we say Ifrit is exactly the same as before when she was in her peak? Wouldn't it make more sense if Ifrit also got weaker?
Otherwise it is indeed a major issue. Ifrit being weaker when she is retired is the only way to explain the discrepancies.
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Another alternative would be to assume that Shizue is just simply better/more effective/more efficient at using Ifrit as a source of power than Ifrit is at using Shizue's material body, i.e. that
Shizue with Ifrit > Fire Giant Ifrit
Actually not too far fetched based on Ifrit's own account (Veldora's Slime Observation Journal) how he used to just throw fire at all his problems with a bit of small scale tactics here or there. But obviously Shizue would be much better in that regard.
Shizue with Ifrit > Fire Giant Ifrit
Actually not too far fetched based on Ifrit's own account (Veldora's Slime Observation Journal) how he used to just throw fire at all his problems with a bit of small scale tactics here or there. But obviously Shizue would be much better in that regard.
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Well either explanation works.
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This is sorta redudant, and likely... pretty stupid, but shouldn't Rimuru get Social Influncing? I mean, he runs an entire country...
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I'm curious a out the Ainz vs Rimuru thread myself.GLHF22 said:
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Don't.GLHF22 said:
Ainz still got a CRT going, and the Overlord side will likely argue that we should "wait until the CRT is done", so there is no point until they finish.Doomrider7 said:
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Okay, this is something me and CP were talking about in the Vol.7 Revisions thread. Since magic sense involves you seeing light and such, and at one point someone was blitzed in the LN, that'd make them FTL.
I have the feats for WN magic sense, but I need scans of a blitz. Can anyone help me find some? The direwolf one was rejected.
I have the feats for WN magic sense, but I need scans of a blitz. Can anyone help me find some? The direwolf one was rejected.
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Milly, Spiritual Beings are said to be escpacially suceptible to Veldora's Aura and despite being a Special A Rank existence (far higher than the neccessary A Rank) he still gets affected by Veldora's aura to the point of almost being erased completely. Hence I don't think he should have Death Manipulation Resistance, which is why I removed it earlier.
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Oh, sorry. Forgot about that.
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@Milly Searched through my compilation of LN feats, Hakurou was mentioned to be too fast for Gobta and co to see but Mjurran could see him with magic sense, so pretty much that disproves any character before Hinata and Rimuru being FTL in the LN.
Haven't seen anything in my compilation for WN feats. Basically what you need is something that says their speed surpasses the magic sense of someone, statements of being faster than the eye isn't enough, cause magic sense isn't the eye. Another thing is that magic sense isn't necessarily always on, you have to activate it, hence why i said magic sense needs to be mentioned to be proven the character is FTL.
Anyway i am gonna go create some profiles now.
Haven't seen anything in my compilation for WN feats. Basically what you need is something that says their speed surpasses the magic sense of someone, statements of being faster than the eye isn't enough, cause magic sense isn't the eye. Another thing is that magic sense isn't necessarily always on, you have to activate it, hence why i said magic sense needs to be mentioned to be proven the character is FTL.
Anyway i am gonna go create some profiles now.
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By the way, Laplace, Footman and Tear are NOT Daemons. They are Majin (or "Magic-Born") like Gelmud, just considerably stronger.
It's just that you can technically translate almost any magical Japanese mythological creature as "Demon". Heck, even translating "Mamono", which we usually see translated as "Monster" could also be translated as "Demon". Even Oni could be legit translated as "Demon". You get my point.
I mean considering "Maou" which consists of the Kanji for "Magical/Demonic" and "King" being translated as "Demon Lord", we might as well just categorize all magicule-based creatures under the umbrella term "Demons". Not to be confused with Daemons who come from the Daemon Realm, like Diablo, Guy, Beretta, etc., though they are also part of the magicule-based category, so Daemons are Demons but not the other way around.
It's just that you can technically translate almost any magical Japanese mythological creature as "Demon". Heck, even translating "Mamono", which we usually see translated as "Monster" could also be translated as "Demon". Even Oni could be legit translated as "Demon". You get my point.
I mean considering "Maou" which consists of the Kanji for "Magical/Demonic" and "King" being translated as "Demon Lord", we might as well just categorize all magicule-based creatures under the umbrella term "Demons". Not to be confused with Daemons who come from the Daemon Realm, like Diablo, Guy, Beretta, etc., though they are also part of the magicule-based category, so Daemons are Demons but not the other way around.
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Nope, can't find anything yet, sadly. I thought Magic Sense was always passively on, though? Ever since Rimuru got it, he had never had to turn it on again.
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So yea, WN Laplace needs to be downgraded and lose all his Daemon traits and abilities.
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How are they Majin?
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@Milly Don't remember it being said to be passive, for Rimuru it is but don't know if that's the case for everyone, he was literally born without his other senses so magic sense is more natural for him to use.
Regardless we would still need a statement which says they can't see the attack even with magic sense, just not being able to react to an attack isn't enough.
@Neo Ok.
Regardless we would still need a statement which says they can't see the attack even with magic sense, just not being able to react to an attack isn't enough.
@Neo Ok.
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Well, I haven't really seen it being activated for anyone else. But I'll continue to look.
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What do you mean by "how"? He is refered to as a Majin in the anime (even the subs say so), for one. You can literally hear the term being used there. Daemons are also called Daemons in the anime (though the subs translate it as Demons).Milly Rocking Bandit said:
Also:
Claude ground his teeth at the situation. The enemy's force seemed to be stronger than he thought. Among the four people, excluding Claude and Alrose, Fran was the one who had the highest fighting power. Yet, she was unable to land even a single hit on the devil called Laplace. And, the knights were useless against that devil called Footman. Claude judged that he and Alrose had no choice but to move. He was worried about Leon, but even if he worried about his master who was far stronger than himself, there would be no point, as there was an even stronger collaborator, Mizari. What he had to do now was to support Fran who was his comrade, he renewed his readiness. | ||
~ WN ch. 202 |
Òé»Òâ¡Òâ╝ÒâëÒü»þèµ│üÒü½µ¡»ÕÖøÒü┐ÒüÖÒéïÒÇé µÇØÒüúÒüªÒüäÒüƒõ╗Ñõ©èÒü½ÒÇüµòÁÒü«µêªÕèøÒü»Ú½ÿÒüäÒéêÒüåÒüáÒÇé Òé»Òâ¡Òâ╝ÒâëÒü¿ÒéóÒâ½Òâ¡Òé╣ÒéÆÚÖñÒüäÒüƒ´╝öÕÉìÒü«ÕåàÒÇüÒâòÒâ®Òâ│Òüîµ£ÇÒééµêªÚùÿÕèøÒüîÚ½ÿÒüäÒÇéÒüØÒéîÒü¬Òü«Òü½ÒÇüÒâ®ÒâùÒâ®Òé╣Òü¿ÒüäÒüåÚ¡öõ║║Òü½Òü»µ¡»Òüîþ½ïÒüƒÒü¬ÒüäÒéêÒüåÒüáÒÇé ÒüØÒüùÒüªÒÇüÒâòÒââÒâêÒâ×Òâ│Òü¿ÒüäÒüåÚ¡öõ║║Òü½Õ»¥ÒüùÒüªÒü»ÒÇüÚ¿ÄÕú½ÚüöÒüºÒü»Õ¢╣Òü½þ½ïÒüƒÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé Þç¬ÕêåÒü¿ÒéóÒâ½Òâ¡Òé╣ÒüîÕïòÒüÅÒüùÒüïÒü¬ÒüäÒÇüÒüØÒüåÕêñµû¡ÒüÖÒéïÒé»Òâ¡Òâ╝ÒâëÒÇé Òâ¼Òé¬Òâ│ÒüîÕ┐âÚàìÒüºÒü»ÒüéÒüúÒüƒÒüîÒÇüÞç¬ÕêåÒéêÒéèÒééÚüÑÒüïÒü½Õ╝ÀÒüäõ©╗ÒéÆÕ┐âÚàìÒüùÒüªÒééõ╗òµû╣ÒüîÒü¬ÒüäÒüùÒÇüÒâƒÒéÂÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü¿ÒüäÒüåÕ╝ÀÕèøÒü¬ÕìöÕèøÞÇàÒééÕ▒àÒéïÒÇé õ╗èÞç¬ÕêåÒüîþé║ÒüÖÒü╣ÒüìÒü»ÒÇüõ╗▓ÚûôÒüºÒüéÒéïÒâòÒâ®Òâ│Òü«µÅ┤Þ¡ÀÒüºÒüéÒéïÒü¿µ░ùµîüÒüíÒéÆÕêçÒéèµø┐ÒüêÒüƒÒÇé | ||
~ WN ch. 202 RAW |
Ú¡öõ║║ = Majin = "Magic-Born" - it refers to any intelligent humanoid magicule-based species. Guro chose to translate it as "devil" in this case.
µé¬Ú¡ö = Akuma = "Daemon" - this refers to the likes of Diablo, Guy, Beretta, etc. as well as the fodder type "Lesser Daemon" Oxheads that Rimuru defeated in the B-Rank Adventurer Exam.
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Ohh, I see. So is there a difference between Daemons and Demons?
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Gonna add some tabs to these characters.
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Most translators call the Daemons as Demons, because the transliteration is a bit confusing. But there's a major problem that almost any creature can be translated as "Demon". The following things refer to different things but can be all technically be translated as "Demon" if the translator was lazy:
µé¬Ú¡ö = Akuma = Demon/Daemon/Devil/Evil Demon
Ú¡öõ║║ = Majin = Demon/Magic-Born/Magic-Man/Demon-Man/Demon-Humanoid
Ú¡öþë® = Mamono = Demon/Monster/Magic-Spawn/Demon-Spawn
Ú¡öµùÅ = Mazoku = Demon/Demon-Race/Magic-Race/Intelligent Demon
Ú¼╝ = Oni = Demon/Oni/Ogre
õ║║Ú¡öµùÅ = Hitomazoku = Demon-Human/Demonoid/Demi-Demon (this refers to Leon, btw)
Ú¡öþÄï = Maou = Demon Lord/Demon King
See? I am sure if I digged deeper then I'd be able to find several other races/terms that could legit be translated as "Demon" too. And all these terms exist the Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ke franchise. Got to be hell for the translators, but the ironclad rule should be not to ever use the term "Demon" for anything and instead look for alternatives for everything (aside from Demon Lord, since that kind of "established language" already).
But incase it wasn't obvious, the main troublemaker here is the Kanji Ú¡ö which can be found in most words dealing with Demons or Magic, which is why in Japanese works "Magic" in general is often strongly associated with "Demons", more so than in Western works.
This is also why Shizu's/Rimuru's Mask is called "Anti-Demon Mask" in the WN and "Anti-Magic Mask" in the LN. They are actually the same words in the RAWs, the TLs just made a different translation choice each.
µé¬Ú¡ö = Akuma = Demon/Daemon/Devil/Evil Demon
Ú¡öõ║║ = Majin = Demon/Magic-Born/Magic-Man/Demon-Man/Demon-Humanoid
Ú¡öþë® = Mamono = Demon/Monster/Magic-Spawn/Demon-Spawn
Ú¡öµùÅ = Mazoku = Demon/Demon-Race/Magic-Race/Intelligent Demon
Ú¼╝ = Oni = Demon/Oni/Ogre
õ║║Ú¡öµùÅ = Hitomazoku = Demon-Human/Demonoid/Demi-Demon (this refers to Leon, btw)
Ú¡öþÄï = Maou = Demon Lord/Demon King
See? I am sure if I digged deeper then I'd be able to find several other races/terms that could legit be translated as "Demon" too. And all these terms exist the Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ke franchise. Got to be hell for the translators, but the ironclad rule should be not to ever use the term "Demon" for anything and instead look for alternatives for everything (aside from Demon Lord, since that kind of "established language" already).
But incase it wasn't obvious, the main troublemaker here is the Kanji Ú¡ö which can be found in most words dealing with Demons or Magic, which is why in Japanese works "Magic" in general is often strongly associated with "Demons", more so than in Western works.
This is also why Shizu's/Rimuru's Mask is called "Anti-Demon Mask" in the WN and "Anti-Magic Mask" in the LN. They are actually the same words in the RAWs, the TLs just made a different translation choice each.
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I see. Would Ramiris's keys be "Child" and "Adult"?
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Question, why doesn't Apito have her unconvential resistances on her first key? Did she really have not one skill until she became a Demon Lord?
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Should be in her first key.
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I'll add it.
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Sorry, was my mistake. The "|" is sometimes hard to see. Thanks for fixing it.
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Welcome, here to help.
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So which would you all prefer? "Magic-Born" (official LN translation) or "Majin" (official manga/anime translation)? It'd be better if the terminology remains consistent going forward, but even LN and manga are split in this instance. And I must say that the manga actually feels a bit more accurate and the official manga volumes even have translator's notes where they explain terms like Majin.
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Prime Shizue maybe At least High 7-A comparable to Celestial Sage:
Ln Volume 7
Chapter 3 A Saint's Goal
Shizue comparable to Celestial Sage:
Hinata personally thinks these three are the most corrupted of the seven. Especially one of them——The fire-wielding ÒÇîSage of FireÒÇì Azu, who can hardly even reach Shizue Izawa in terms of power. There was nothing worth learning from him. Hinata didn't even need to use ÒÇîUsurperÒÇì to pass his trial.
Seven Celestial Sage:
——They are the great sages known as ÒÇîSeven Celestial SagesÒÇì.
Each one them have surpassed the average "Sage". They are legendary figures who have even trained Chosen Heroes in the past. They have completely masked their presence from the public eye and become legends that only live in fairy tales or folk lores. Even the Holy Knights- are unaware of their actual existence.
Average Sage:
People such as the Ten Great Saints, people who've reached the level of ÒÇîSageÒÇì. Arno, Reynald and Grigori. The three would stand a chance against a Special Rank A monster.
Among the Ten Saints, Sare is undoubtedly the strongest next to Hinata. He wouldn't do too bad if he fights against a Demon Lord. A duel between a Saint and Demon Lord like the legends tell is unlikely to occur. But if it really comes to that, we can have a good fight with our enemies then——Hinata thinks.
They have a rather good chance to win against opponents such as Demon Lord Clayman who's been tempting to make a move in the Western Nations.
Chapter 4
The sages of the ÒÇîTen Great SaintsÒÇì seem to have power to rival the likes of ÒÇîDemon Lord BreedÒÇì. They would have power to at least rival the Orc Disaster. It would be quite the heavy burden to place on Shuna.
Ln Volume 7
Chapter 3 A Saint's Goal
Shizue comparable to Celestial Sage:
Hinata personally thinks these three are the most corrupted of the seven. Especially one of them——The fire-wielding ÒÇîSage of FireÒÇì Azu, who can hardly even reach Shizue Izawa in terms of power. There was nothing worth learning from him. Hinata didn't even need to use ÒÇîUsurperÒÇì to pass his trial.
Seven Celestial Sage:
——They are the great sages known as ÒÇîSeven Celestial SagesÒÇì.
Each one them have surpassed the average "Sage". They are legendary figures who have even trained Chosen Heroes in the past. They have completely masked their presence from the public eye and become legends that only live in fairy tales or folk lores. Even the Holy Knights- are unaware of their actual existence.
Average Sage:
People such as the Ten Great Saints, people who've reached the level of ÒÇîSageÒÇì. Arno, Reynald and Grigori. The three would stand a chance against a Special Rank A monster.
Among the Ten Saints, Sare is undoubtedly the strongest next to Hinata. He wouldn't do too bad if he fights against a Demon Lord. A duel between a Saint and Demon Lord like the legends tell is unlikely to occur. But if it really comes to that, we can have a good fight with our enemies then——Hinata thinks.
They have a rather good chance to win against opponents such as Demon Lord Clayman who's been tempting to make a move in the Western Nations.
Code:
However, such judgement can only be made towards the (unawakened) ÒÇîDemon Lord BreedÒÇìChapter 4
The sages of the ÒÇîTen Great SaintsÒÇì seem to have power to rival the likes of ÒÇîDemon Lord BreedÒÇì. They would have power to at least rival the Orc Disaster. It would be quite the heavy burden to place on Shuna.
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Question is: Is the comparison made with peak-base-Shizue or peak-white-flame-Shizue (i.e. "with Ifrit"). Seriously, her power level is one incoherent mess.
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