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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 4
- Thread starter Celestial_Pegasus
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I find the contents of that link VERY disturbing.Sheska444 said:
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Asain posted some new chapters for the afterstories.
It was stated power null of the magic canceller doesn't work on Rimuru, but we already knew that.
Also vol 14 of the ln is coming out on the 29th of this month.
It was stated power null of the magic canceller doesn't work on Rimuru, but we already knew that.
Also vol 14 of the ln is coming out on the 29th of this month.
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Why would it grant that? All it does is give complete control over causality.
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It does a bit more over that. In stopped time, it essentially trumps all other forms of Causality Manipulation. If being able to resist Causality Manipulation is a result of Causality Manipulation (Excluding Causality Resist due to Acausality), then Tyrant King Susanoo, which in stopped time gives the user's will Absolute Priority over Cause and Effect and trumps all other forms of causality manipulation, means it negates the resistance since it should just be an extension of the user's causality manipulation.Celestial Pegasus said:
We can see an example right as Shion defeats Dagurel.
"Toward the blade which was swinging upwards in his direction, Dagruel extended his left hand out to nullify it ―― only to show confusion when that very blade disappeared. Right after, the burning sensation of pain ―― pain, which he has not felt in a few millennia ―― reached his brain. Shion's finishing attack slipped through Dagruel's cognizance, and reached his body."
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- #248
It said nothing about trumping causality manipulation though, just that in stopped time shion's ability to manipulate causality is absolute.
I think this is due to the fact that while in stopped time, nothing is happening, think of it this way, when time isn't stopped a bunch of stuff is happening, billions of ppl are living their lives doing whatever, the laws of physics are in effect, the weather is changing etc etc.
When time is stopped though, nothing is happening, thus Shion's ability takes priority, thus she is absolute in manipulate causality to make what she wants happen happen. It's the only cause that is happening while time is stopped contrasted to the billions that would be happening when time isn't stopped.
I think this is due to the fact that while in stopped time, nothing is happening, think of it this way, when time isn't stopped a bunch of stuff is happening, billions of ppl are living their lives doing whatever, the laws of physics are in effect, the weather is changing etc etc.
When time is stopped though, nothing is happening, thus Shion's ability takes priority, thus she is absolute in manipulate causality to make what she wants happen happen. It's the only cause that is happening while time is stopped contrasted to the billions that would be happening when time isn't stopped.
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Except its specifically defined as Shion's Will being given the highest Priority. Due to how its defined, it should trump all other causality manipulation skills in stopped time.Celestial Pegasus said:
Dagrule's abilities are stated to be simlar to Shion's although weaker than Tyrant King Susanoo, but because of him being able to output more power, they only reached a stalemate where they both nullified each others attacks.
"But, the ability『Tyrannous Lord Susanoo』that Shion awakened to, gave Shion the means to stand against Dagruel. Which meant, the ability is capable of something similar(to Dagruel)."
"In terms of Max Energy, Dagruel had many more times the amount Shion had, but Shion was able to stand toe to toe against him because of that fact. However, even with Shion's new abilities, it is impossible for her to overpower Dagruel. That, was proof of the similitude between Shion and Dagruel. If you were to compare their abilities, Shion is superior. But, the two of them are on par with each other if you take the overall power into account."
In an instance where Rimuru uses this skill, the power output would be infinitely higher, and would overpower essentially all other forms of causallity manipulation.
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Except its specifically defined as Shion's Will being given the highest Priority. Due to how its defined, it should trump all other causality manipulation skills in stopped time.
Dagrule's abilities are stated to be simlar to Shion's although weaker than Tyrant King Susanoo, but because of him being able to output more power, they only reached a stalemate where they both nullified each others attacks.
"But, the ability『Tyrannous Lord Susanoo』that Shion awakened to, gave Shion the means to stand against Dagruel. Which meant, the ability is capable of something similar(to Dagruel)."
"In terms of Max Energy, Dagruel had many more times the amount Shion had, but Shion was able to stand toe to toe against him because of that fact. However, even with Shion's new abilities, it is impossible for her to overpower Dagruel. That, was proof of the similitude between Shion and Dagruel. If you were to compare their abilities, Shion is superior. But, the two of them are on par with each other if you take the overall power into account."
In an instance where Rimuru uses this skill, the power output would be infinitely higher, and would overpower essentially all other forms of causallity manipulation.
hmmn, it's Irregular Causality indeed
Dagrule's abilities are stated to be simlar to Shion's although weaker than Tyrant King Susanoo, but because of him being able to output more power, they only reached a stalemate where they both nullified each others attacks.
"But, the ability『Tyrannous Lord Susanoo』that Shion awakened to, gave Shion the means to stand against Dagruel. Which meant, the ability is capable of something similar(to Dagruel)."
"In terms of Max Energy, Dagruel had many more times the amount Shion had, but Shion was able to stand toe to toe against him because of that fact. However, even with Shion's new abilities, it is impossible for her to overpower Dagruel. That, was proof of the similitude between Shion and Dagruel. If you were to compare their abilities, Shion is superior. But, the two of them are on par with each other if you take the overall power into account."
In an instance where Rimuru uses this skill, the power output would be infinitely higher, and would overpower essentially all other forms of causallity manipulation.
hmmn, it's Irregular Causality indeed
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- #251
Yea her will is given the highest priority cause there are no other causes, when time is stopped everything is stopped, the laws of motion, gravity etc etc.
The only one causing anything is Shion, thus what she causes gets the highest priority.
Assuming somehow Shion has type 4 acausality and resistance negation is just speculation imo.
Even then i still don't see how that would give her those abilities, other abilities weren't mention just that manipulating causality in stopped time means becoming unrivaled, and her will is given the highest priority, at best you could chalk it to really good causality manipulation.
The only one causing anything is Shion, thus what she causes gets the highest priority.
Assuming somehow Shion has type 4 acausality and resistance negation is just speculation imo.
Even then i still don't see how that would give her those abilities, other abilities weren't mention just that manipulating causality in stopped time means becoming unrivaled, and her will is given the highest priority, at best you could chalk it to really good causality manipulation.
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The web novel states that Dagruel's abilities are essentially the same as Shion's Ultimate Skill. If that isn't stating out right that Dagruel uses Causality Manipulation, I honestly don't know what you would consider proof.
I mean they were both nullifying each others attacks while time is stopped therefore they were both manipulating cause and effect.. The only reason why Dagruel wasn't stomped when Shion got Tyrant King Susanoo was because of Dagruel just having more raw power than Shion.
When Shion and Dragruel are fighting, the only reason why Shion is able to bridge the gap and beat his abilities(Which are stated to be similar to Shion's ultimate skill), is through her Ultimate Skill, which while superior, is still weaker than all of the skills Dragruel uses because of his raw power.
I mean they were both nullifying each others attacks while time is stopped therefore they were both manipulating cause and effect.. The only reason why Dagruel wasn't stomped when Shion got Tyrant King Susanoo was because of Dagruel just having more raw power than Shion.
When Shion and Dragruel are fighting, the only reason why Shion is able to bridge the gap and beat his abilities(Which are stated to be similar to Shion's ultimate skill), is through her Ultimate Skill, which while superior, is still weaker than all of the skills Dragruel uses because of his raw power.
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First, from what I know, none qualify for Acausality Type 4.
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
From what I remember, Dagruel's major ability is Magic Nullify which is nowhere near Shion's Causality abilities
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
From what I remember, Dagruel's major ability is Magic Nullify which is nowhere near Shion's Causality abilities
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I will reiterate again, Dagruel himself specifies that:
"Dagruel has noticed, that his abilities were being nullified. That, was caused by an ability[Tyrant King Susanoo] that was similar to Dagruel's true nature. Which was why they rejected each other, and both sides were nullified. In this『Suspended World』where all forms of disaster causing supernatural powers are sealed, Shion and Dagruel lacked the power to deal a decisive blow to either side and were locked in an unending brawl. Attacks which were supposed to ignore defense and cause damage, were being completely evaded so fatal damage is avoided. Both sides nullified the opposition's attacks, and simply consumed their Energy."
As for skills: Hardened DefenseÒâ╗Weapon DestructionÒâ╗Existence DestructionÒâ╗Magic ImmunityÒâ╗Neutralize AttributeÒâ╗Ignore Defense (And that's only to name a few)
In this case, Ignore Defense is being described as a form of causality manipulation. In his profile, Dagruel is described as having Causality Manipulation Resistance, which both of Shion's previous Causality Manipulation Skills did not work (Cook and chaotic fate), while Tyrannous Lord Susanoo could only affect him when time was stopped. After time resumed, it did not affect him at all. This demonstrates that it at least negates Causality Resistance.
"Dagruel has noticed, that his abilities were being nullified. That, was caused by an ability[Tyrant King Susanoo] that was similar to Dagruel's true nature. Which was why they rejected each other, and both sides were nullified. In this『Suspended World』where all forms of disaster causing supernatural powers are sealed, Shion and Dagruel lacked the power to deal a decisive blow to either side and were locked in an unending brawl. Attacks which were supposed to ignore defense and cause damage, were being completely evaded so fatal damage is avoided. Both sides nullified the opposition's attacks, and simply consumed their Energy."
As for skills: Hardened DefenseÒâ╗Weapon DestructionÒâ╗Existence DestructionÒâ╗Magic ImmunityÒâ╗Neutralize AttributeÒâ╗Ignore Defense (And that's only to name a few)
In this case, Ignore Defense is being described as a form of causality manipulation. In his profile, Dagruel is described as having Causality Manipulation Resistance, which both of Shion's previous Causality Manipulation Skills did not work (Cook and chaotic fate), while Tyrannous Lord Susanoo could only affect him when time was stopped. After time resumed, it did not affect him at all. This demonstrates that it at least negates Causality Resistance.
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- #255
No Dagruel doesn't have causality manipulation... I think you're looking into this too deep, ignore defense doesn't manipulate causality, it as its name says, ignore defenses.
When it says it causes damage that doesn't mean it manipulates causality, it's the same as if i said fire causes heat.
Dagruel's ability is to basically negate everything, thus he can negate Shion's causality manipulation.
When it says it causes damage that doesn't mean it manipulates causality, it's the same as if i said fire causes heat.
Dagruel's ability is to basically negate everything, thus he can negate Shion's causality manipulation.
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You were saying Shion has acausality in stopped time for having superior causality manipulation or something but Dagreul's ability isn't causality manipulation but really power nullification.
All this means is in stopped time her causality manipulation is stronger, no need to over complicate things.
All this means is in stopped time her causality manipulation is stronger, no need to over complicate things.
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That doesn't change the fact that he previously resisted causality Manipulation, but when in stopped time, he couldn't resist it. In unpaused time, he was able to resist Tyrant King Susanoo.
too deep son... it looks like everyone agrees that you stick your **** for far too deep
too deep son... it looks like everyone agrees that you stick your **** for far too deep
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- #260
Diablo showed up, didn't expect that.
And hinata is in the background following rimuru, no rimuru vs hinata though, just means when season 2 happens it will stat right from there.
And hinata is in the background following rimuru, no rimuru vs hinata though, just means when season 2 happens it will stat right from there.
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- #262
There is still 2 episodes left, ep 24 which is about diablo meeting shizu and ep 25 which is veldora diaries.
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That doesn't change the fact that he previously resisted causality Manipulation, but when in stopped time, he couldn't resist it. In unpaused time, he was able to resist Tyrant King Susanoo. too deep son... it looks like everyone agrees that you stick your **** for far too deep
Sheska444, this comment was unecessary
ah.. ok
Sheska444, this comment was unecessary
ah.. ok
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- #264
Ep 24 will probably give some more info on the primordials, also curious what Diablo was doing before meet Shizue, in the wn he just went around beating up ppl, wonder if he was doing the same, and was also wondering earth.
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I'm actually hoping that season 2 covers the skipped material and some stuff from the Slime Diaries. The way I'd frame would be Rimuru narrarating his life up to "this point", with "this point" being his duel with Hinata. A sort of, "in media res" if you will.Celestial Pegasus said:
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I'm actually hoping that season 2 covers the skipped material and some stuff from the Slime Diaries. The way I'd frame would be Rimuru narrarating his life up to "this point", with "this point" being his duel with Hinata. A sort of, "in media res" if you will.
Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane
Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane
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- #267
So, think everyone with space-time control might have resistance to bfr, either that or time manipulation:
Zero took over the labrinth and made it into a subspace, where you can't move in without space-time control:
"ÒÇîThe only members here who can move in that space are Diablo, Zegion and Benimaru. Benimaru, you can use 『Space-Time Control』properly right?ÒÇì ÒÇîCertainly, Ramiris-sama. Although I only just got the hang of it.ÒÇì"
Ramiris telling Dino to protect his companions inside his barrier or they would get sent away:
"『Good, protect them with your barrier properly, okay? Otherwise, they would get swallowed up by the subspace and get blown away to no one knows where!ÒÇì Dino nodded to Ramiris' warning. Aside from Zegion who was connected via "Soul Corridor", Dino and co who didn't have firm bonds, had no foothold inside the subspace. Still, Dino could manage it somehow, but he predicted that Pico and Garasha would get swept away easily by the subspace. If they were swallowed up by the phase fluctuation inside the subspace, it would be impossible to predict what kind of different dimension and space they would get blown into. Because it was a different space where the flow of time could get distorted, it would be hopeless to return to the same spot once you got swept away. Even for Pico and Garasha who were of the awakened demon lord class, it would be difficult for them to maintain their existences inside the subspace. The minimum requirement for that was to own the『Space-Time Control』skill. It was an ultimate ability that nobody else had apart from Diablo, Zegion and Benimaru, who finally could use it."
The subspace also has a distorted flow of time, yea this looks like both resistance to time manipulation and bfr to me.
Zero took over the labrinth and made it into a subspace, where you can't move in without space-time control:
"ÒÇîThe only members here who can move in that space are Diablo, Zegion and Benimaru. Benimaru, you can use 『Space-Time Control』properly right?ÒÇì ÒÇîCertainly, Ramiris-sama. Although I only just got the hang of it.ÒÇì"
Ramiris telling Dino to protect his companions inside his barrier or they would get sent away:
"『Good, protect them with your barrier properly, okay? Otherwise, they would get swallowed up by the subspace and get blown away to no one knows where!ÒÇì Dino nodded to Ramiris' warning. Aside from Zegion who was connected via "Soul Corridor", Dino and co who didn't have firm bonds, had no foothold inside the subspace. Still, Dino could manage it somehow, but he predicted that Pico and Garasha would get swept away easily by the subspace. If they were swallowed up by the phase fluctuation inside the subspace, it would be impossible to predict what kind of different dimension and space they would get blown into. Because it was a different space where the flow of time could get distorted, it would be hopeless to return to the same spot once you got swept away. Even for Pico and Garasha who were of the awakened demon lord class, it would be difficult for them to maintain their existences inside the subspace. The minimum requirement for that was to own the『Space-Time Control』skill. It was an ultimate ability that nobody else had apart from Diablo, Zegion and Benimaru, who finally could use it."
The subspace also has a distorted flow of time, yea this looks like both resistance to time manipulation and bfr to me.
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Is this about Rimuru Tempest not resisting BFR for his last key? Honestly, it highly unlikely that during the TIme that Rimuru Tempest was asleep for the countless of years at the end of time that Ciel didn't analyze the ability to gain resistance. A possible Resistance to BFR can work for me.
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If this is about the Pokemon God Tiers fight, their BFR looks based on asotoric energy from move like Roar of Time which Rimuru Tempest should still be able to absorbs and gain resitance like he did for Hinata's Sword based Soul Manipulation.
But. Arceus's BFR is difference since it Banished Giratina, in the Pokemon Platinum pokedex. So, it is basically sealing which Rimuru Tempest doesn't resisted
But. Arceus's BFR is difference since it Banished Giratina, in the Pokemon Platinum pokedex. So, it is basically sealing which Rimuru Tempest doesn't resisted
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Yuuki's BFR is way above what Zero's is, Yuuki's BFR uproots you and any other version of yourself within the space-time continuum and sends you to the end of space-time. Zero's just BFR to another dimension.
So i wouldn't say Rimuru being BFR by Yuuki was part of Ciel's plan, more like Yuuki's BFR was above his resistance. Though Ciel did say the reason Rimuru got BFR was cause she was busy analyzing primitve magic.
So i wouldn't say Rimuru being BFR by Yuuki was part of Ciel's plan, more like Yuuki's BFR was above his resistance. Though Ciel did say the reason Rimuru got BFR was cause she was busy analyzing primitve magic.
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Yea as i said before he said it worked cause Ciel was busy with analyzing primitive magic:
"ÒÇîWell, let's finish this. I have accompanied you in your foolish game for some time. But it's time for the game to end, don't you think?ÒÇì ÒÇîI-Impossible!? Rimuru-san, I should have sent you to the "End of Time and Space" without fail!!ÒÇì
Yuuki began to shout with bloodshot eyes, as if he didn't want to accept it. I could understand that feeling. However, he just faced the wrong opponent. If he fought someone else other than me, his eyes might have looked triumphant..
ÒÇîYeah, you've sent me there. I fell for your plan because my partner was engrossed in the analysis of the Primitive Magic. Oh well, your plan was very impressive, but, unfortunately, it's useless against me.ÒÇì
I told Yuuki that as if it was nothing.
《It upsets me that you said it's my fault you fell into his plan. However, it's true that I had interest in Primitive Magic. It's vexing, but I can't refute it.》"
"ÒÇîWell, let's finish this. I have accompanied you in your foolish game for some time. But it's time for the game to end, don't you think?ÒÇì ÒÇîI-Impossible!? Rimuru-san, I should have sent you to the "End of Time and Space" without fail!!ÒÇì
Yuuki began to shout with bloodshot eyes, as if he didn't want to accept it. I could understand that feeling. However, he just faced the wrong opponent. If he fought someone else other than me, his eyes might have looked triumphant..
ÒÇîYeah, you've sent me there. I fell for your plan because my partner was engrossed in the analysis of the Primitive Magic. Oh well, your plan was very impressive, but, unfortunately, it's useless against me.ÒÇì
I told Yuuki that as if it was nothing.
《It upsets me that you said it's my fault you fell into his plan. However, it's true that I had interest in Primitive Magic. It's vexing, but I can't refute it.》"
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- #276
Upgrade thread for the resistances
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I have a few questions. The way that the WN uses "resistance" and "nullification" kinda confuses me. I remember seeing Rimuru stating that one of the skills he obtained was Physical Attack Nullification. Wouldn't that be Invulurability?
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- #279
@Milly I think physical attack nullification is power nullification, basically it nullifies all physical attacks used against them, so you have to infuse your attacks with some sort of energy or aura for it to work.
Rimuru has physical attack immunity though, obviously cause he is a spiritual lieform thus has no physical body so of course he is immune to physical attacks.
The other ones like mental attack immunity, or abnormal status immunity are just nlf's though. But yea overall the wn doesn't really go into details about what the resistances actually do.
Rimuru has physical attack immunity though, obviously cause he is a spiritual lieform thus has no physical body so of course he is immune to physical attacks.
The other ones like mental attack immunity, or abnormal status immunity are just nlf's though. But yea overall the wn doesn't really go into details about what the resistances actually do.
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Mental Attack Immunity could be about Mind Manipulation Resistance. Abnormal Status Immunity is most likely Resistance to all the verse status effects also since the incorpeal, this is most likely as status effect like poison or disease manipulation don't affect incorpeal/Intangible (ghost based) unless done with Non-physical interaction.
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