Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Eikichi_Sensei]

High humans are spiritual lifeforms

Even if he uses it, that guy never actually died

 

[Mizuki67]

to some extent

Even if he uses it, that guy never actually died

Jahil can't die, lol.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Guys I have noticed many slight issues with the Slime verse that I feel like might be wanking the verse a bit.

I have some concerns but I will start with some minor things that have been bugging me.

• Why do Spiritual Lifeforms have type 5 immortality? Overcoming death via willpower is supernatural willpower, not existing outside the concept of death itself.

• Why does LN Rimiru have high regeneration in slime key? He has not demonstrated anything above Low-High, and the statements used do no support molecular regeneration.

• Why do you guys treat Information Particles as genuine Info Type 2 when they seem to have measurable, physical mass and size as said in the very scans you guys use to say they have Information Type 2? This just seems like Quantum manipulation to me tbh. I recall seeing in another thread that they had an actual finite value (Something like 0.000001 or whatever) ascribed to them as well. I will try and find that.

• Why is magic treated as this extremely esoteric law and concept warping ability in the verse. Just being able to bypass "laws" doesn't mean you have law manipulation. The magic page describes magic as being "The ability to allow manipulating aspects of reality (or all of them), bypassing the known laws of physics." I haven't seen anything in Tensei Slime that actually goes outside of that definition so far. Magic is literally inherently the ability to manifest things that break the laws of worlds.

• Generally I'd also like to specifically see the evidence for Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation because I have some concerns.

That's all for now! I just wanted to see if you guys could explain some things.

• General Concepts in Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (Light Novel)
• Skills and Magic (Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken) (Light Novel)
• Spiritual Lifeform Physiology (Light Novel)

First of all, have you read the description pages we make for this sort of thing? There is a purpose for creating such pages.

About the first question

I said in the thread where this upgrade was accepted that I did not accept immortality type 5 for all Spiritual Lifeforms, that it should be listed as just supernatural willpower, but I guess I'll be playing the devil's advocate here.

Of course, I'll wait for you to take a look at the description pages first, because it sure looks like you haven't.

About the second question

I'll be clear here, yes actually looking at the scans there is no conclusive proof that Ultraspeed Regeneration is at the molecular level and therefore it needs to be revised at some point, but based on the scans I see no reason to object to a possible rating as well and so if a content revision is created that is what I would support there will still be at least Low-High, possibly High regeneration.

About other questions

If you ignore some dead links on the pages that need to be fixed, and the incorrect statements made during the application of type 1 conceptual manipulation as a result of the last accepted content revision, I think the explanation pages explain your remaining questions very well. If there are places where you have difficulty connecting even after reading all the pages, feel free to ask.

 

[Digital_Franz]

It doesn't. It just says they can overcome death via will. That's supernatural willpower.

More than that, there are scans that actually contradict Type 5. For example, this scan, this scan, and this scan refer to them being killed or dying. If they can normally just die then they don't exist outside of life and death. That's contradictory.

For the first scan it is true that it is quite relevant but for the other scans it is not specified how they died. The alter ego's death is not described in the second scan. He may have been a victim of existence erasure. Guy also killing the high human can also be through existence erasure. Demons have a wide range of skills like Diablo who completely canceled the reincarnation of the demon Orthos

My point is that all magic manipulates physical laws to some extent. So I wanted to see if there are any particular scans where someone changes a law in such a way that it affects the laws areas of influence.

The problem is that in the majority of anime, magic is just used without explanation so it just seems that they make phenomena appear through magic. In the justification you see that law manipulation is done thanks to the insertion of the will into the magicules. I have seen other verses where there was mana and other types of energy and law manipulation was accepted for the fact that these energies allow one to break laws or manipulate them to create phenomena in the world

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I think even Demi-Spiritual Lifeforms who have the "Ultraspeed Regeneration" skill can get Low Godly Regeneration.

Ultraspeed Regeneration: Provides the user with incredible regenerative properties far superior to those offered by self-regeneration. Any injuries and damage that do not instantly kill the user can be regenerated very quickly.

Demi-Spiritual Lifeform: Although semi-spiritual lifeforms are extremely close to spiritual lifeforms in nature, they are still inferior in one key aspect: their mortality. If the spiritual body of a semi-spiritual life form is destroyed, then they die forever, having failed to escape the limitations of their body and cheat death.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Can you explain how that works with scans?

Immeasurable speed for Tensura

vsbattles.fandom.com

You can also take a look at this blog to understand the nature of the information particles.

 

[Phoenks]

I will double check the pages. Also, I am not planning a CRT I am simply curious about some things. So no need to be hostile or anything I'm just checking stuff.

 

[Mizuki67]

I will double check the pages. Also, I am not planning a CRT I am simply curious about some things. So no need to be hostile or anything I'm just checking stuff.

Yeah, we arent hostile, just wanted to point out some stuff, i know you only had questions, but just saying, we have a general explanation page for misconceptions

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Please someone respond to my comment and tell me: No, it doesn't work like that, tell me

 

[Phoenks]

Which CRT concerned the concept type 1?

 

[CodeCCLL]

So no need to be hostile or anything I'm just checking stuff

You may have been tagged a little too many times, there's nothing we can do about it, but apart from that, I haven't seen anyone take a hostile attitude.

Also, I am not planning a CRT I am simply curious about some things.

Even if you're not planning on crt, don't hesitate to talk about things you find questionable, my first priority right now is really to clear the verse from wank and increase the credibility of profiles.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

You may have been tagged a little too many times, there's nothing we can do about it, but apart from that, I haven't seen anyone take a hostile attitude.

Even if you're not planning on crt, don't hesitate to talk about things you find questionable, my first priority right now is really to clear the verse from wank and increase the credibility of profiles.

Please someone respond to my comment and tell me: No, it doesn't work like that, tell me

I want you to stop my mind...

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

By the way, can you tell me what things seem questionable to you to see if we have the same coincidence?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Which CRT concerned the concept type 1?

Upgrade for Spiritual Lifeforms [TenSura]

Lets get straight to the point this time, and avoid derailing the thread with useless arguments or comments. With that done, lets begin Concept Type 1 Upgrade Currently, we have Spiritual Lifeforms as Type 2 Concepts based of this : Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Concept (Type 2) - Elemental...

vsbattles.com

TenSura Revision [LN]

This thread will be a series of upgrades[as well as degrades] from small changes to major ones. Please keep the discussion civil, avoid toxic behavior as well as derailing! With that, lets begin with the proposals --Upgrades-- Change of wording for Regeneration So, I've noticed that Rimuru...

vsbattles.com

These two are important for the Type 1 Concept.

 

[CodeCCLL]

By the way, can you tell me what things seem questionable to you to see if we have the same coincidence?

I can't compile them all right now. If you take a look at the history of the general discussion thread, you can see that talks about things that I and many others are not happy with.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Ok, but please respond to my comment about Ultraspeed Regeneration.

I think even Demi-Spiritual Lifeforms who have the "Ultraspeed Regeneration" skill can get Low Godly Regeneration.

Ultraspeed Regeneration: Provides the user with incredible regenerative properties far superior to those offered by self-regeneration. Any injuries and damage that do not instantly kill the user can be regenerated very quickly.

Demi-Spiritual Lifeform: Although semi-spiritual lifeforms are extremely close to spiritual lifeforms in nature, they are still inferior in one key aspect: their mortality. If the spiritual body of a semi-spiritual life form is destroyed, then they die forever, having failed to escape the limitations of their body and cheat death.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Ok, but please respond to my comment about Ultraspeed Regeneration.

I think even Demi-Spiritual Lifeforms who have the "Ultraspeed Regeneration" skill can get Low Godly Regeneration.

Ultraspeed Regeneration: Provides the user with incredible regenerative properties far superior to those offered by self-regeneration. Any injuries and damage that do not instantly kill the user can be regenerated very quickly.

Demi-Spiritual Lifeform: Although semi-spiritual lifeforms are extremely close to spiritual lifeforms in nature, they are still inferior in one key aspect: their mortality. If the spiritual body of a semi-spiritual life form is destroyed, then they die forever, having failed to escape the limitations of their body and cheat death.

We've discussed this before as far as I remember and I had no problem with this.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

So Rimuru slime key needs a CRT

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Now that I see conversations from the past of this Thread...

What happened to all those people?

I see that the Thread was previously friendly.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Now that I see conversations from the past of this Thread...

What happened to all those people?

I see that the Thread was previously friendly.

Some are still here, some are not much interested in the verse anymore, some have left the wiki, eventually, our conversations will become history like theirs.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

At least I'll keep them from wanking the verse for them.

 

[Mizuki67]

At least I'll keep them from wanking the verse for them.

Veldanava nigh omnipresence and Nonexistent creation needs to be removed

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Non-existent creation? What? Does that even exist in the verse?

 

[Mizuki67]

Non-existent creation? What? Does that even exist in the verse?

The end, sub space, nothingness
It comes with several names, i believe nothing was there before Veldanava, and exist as part of God, Veldanava didn't create nonexistence, its been there since the beginning, so it should be removed
Turn null is also derived from that place so...

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

I see, I think you have to do it yourself since you made a CRT for that, right? Ulitma Reality (Jozaysmith?), but I think Rimuru can still maintain those things because he can create everything

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Guys I have noticed many slight issues with the Slime verse that I feel like might be wanking the verse a bit.

I have some concerns but I will start with some minor things that have been bugging me.

• Why do Spiritual Lifeforms have type 5 immortality? Overcoming death via willpower is supernatural willpower, not existing outside the concept of death itself.

They cannot experience normal death

https://gyazo.com/f90db331bf4a5798ab0dc547059cdd9c

• Why does LN Rimiru have high regeneration in slime key? He has not demonstrated anything above Low-High, and the statements used do no support molecular regeneration.

First off, around this much temperature is required to disintegrate even atoms, and it was basically stated that even if Rimuru's underlings[Ogres] combined all their abilities, it still wouldn't be enough to kill the Orc Lord off, where Benimaru's[one of the ogre] hell-flare can reach temperatures up to hundreds of millions of degrees, yet the orc lord still wouldn't have been defeated, and Rimuru stated his Ultra-speed regen was at least comparable, if not better, since he'd win in the end if they started consuming each other

• Why do you guys treat Information Particles as genuine Info Type 2 when they seem to have measurable, physical mass and size as said in the very scans you guys use to say they have Information Type 2? This just seems like Quantum manipulation to me tbh. I recall seeing in another thread that they had an actual finite value (Something like 0.000001 or whatever) ascribed to them as well. I will try and find that.

A photon is considered massless, yet an Information Particle's mass is even smaller than a photon and are the very foundation of the world, and they store one's information so no, its not actually finite value, it'll be 0, especially when the verse follows the theory of relativity that nothing can exceed the speed of light, yet Information particle travel anywhere at 0 time[i.e., faster than light]

• Why is magic treated as this extremely esoteric law and concept warping ability in the verse. Just being able to bypass "laws" doesn't mean you have law manipulation. The magic page describes magic as being "The ability to allow manipulating aspects of reality (or all of them), bypassing the known laws of physics." I haven't seen anything in Tensei Slime that actually goes outside of that definition so far. Magic is literally inherently the ability to manifest things that break the laws of worlds.

• Magic is the ability to interfere with the set of Laws governing the World, the World Language
• Magic rewrites the Laws of the World
• Again stated it is the ability to rewrite the Laws of the World, and using magic requires one to decipher these Laws

Generally I'd also like to specifically see the evidence for Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation because I have some concerns.

It can harm Spiritual Lifeforms that are such concepts, which are type 1 concepts. additionally, Spiritual Lifeforms like Elementals are basically an off-shot of a higher concept called Great Spirits/Attributes, which are the Laws governing the principle of the world in tensura, additionally, here's a more direct statement implying Spiritual lifeforms are literal concepts
So we have a direct Concept : Law co-relation here

That should be enough, I suppose?

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

They cannot experience normal death

First off, around this much temperature is required to disintegrate even atoms, and it was basically stated that even if Rimuru's underlings[Ogres] combined all their abilities, it still wouldn't be enough to kill the Orc Lord off, where Benimaru's[one of the ogre] hell-flare can reach temperatures up to hundreds of millions of degrees, yet the orc lord still wouldn't have been defeated, and Rimuru stated his Ultra-speed regen was at least comparable, if not better, since he'd win in the end if they started consuming each other

A photon is considered massless, yet an Information Particle's mass is even less than a photon and are the very foundation of the world, and they store one's information so no, its not actually finite value, it'll be 0, especially when the verse follows the theory of relativity that nothing can exceed the speed of light, yet Information particle travel anywhere at 0 time[i.e., faster than light]

• Magic is the ability to interfere with the set of Laws governing the World, the World Language
• Magic rewrites the Laws of the World
• Again stated it is the ability to rewrite the Laws of the World, and using magic requires one to decipher these Laws

It can harm Spiritual Lifeforms that are such concepts, which are type 1 concepts. additionally, Spiritual Lifeforms like Elementals are basically an off-shot of a higher concept called Great Spirits/Attributes, which are the Laws governing the principle of the world in tensura, additionally, here's a more direct statement implying Spiritual lifeforms are literal concepts
So we have a direct Concept : Law co-relation here

That should be enough, I suppose?

In your same scan it says that Benimaru couldn't create something like Rimuru so you chose a bad example...

 

[Mizuki67]

I see, I think you have to do it yourself since you made a CRT for that, right? Ulitma Reality (Jozaysmith?), but I think Rimuru can still maintain those things because he can create everything

I am not ultima reality, neither am i jozay smith, how did you even come to all this conclusion

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Mizuki67: I was told to give input on this. I am back again ig sigh.​

Upgrade for Spiritual Lifeforms [TenSura]

Lets get straight to the point this time, and avoid derailing the thread with useless arguments or comments. With that done, lets begin Concept Type 1 Upgrade Currently, we have Spiritual Lifeforms as Type 2 Concepts based of this : Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Concept (Type 2) - Elemental...

vsbattles.com

 

[Mizuki67]

Mizuki67: I was told to give input on this. I am back again ig sigh.​

Upgrade for Spiritual Lifeforms [TenSura]

Lets get straight to the point this time, and avoid derailing the thread with useless arguments or comments. With that done, lets begin Concept Type 1 Upgrade Currently, we have Spiritual Lifeforms as Type 2 Concepts based of this : Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Concept (Type 2) - Elemental...

vsbattles.com

Ig

 

[Digital_Franz]

The end, sub space, nothingness
It comes with several names, i believe nothing was there before Veldanava, and exist as part of God, Veldanava didn't create nonexistence, its been there since the beginning, so it should be removed
Turn null is also derived from that place so...

I see what you mean but I don't think that's the case. Subspace is a space that separates worlds and extends to infinity. If it hadn't been created and was a part of God from the start then that would mean the worlds are directly in the multiverse and not in separate dimensions.

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

This matter of Veldanava needs to be explained again.

Did Veldanva create everything that exists after the Void World?

It is said that he created the Worlds, ok, this may be related to him creating everything else except Subspace and Void World, but...

In volume 21 it is said that Veldanava lost Turn Null when creating the World, so?

 

[Mizuki67]

I see what you mean but I don't think that's the case. Subspace is a space that separates worlds and extends to infinity. If it hadn't been created and was a part of God from the start then that would mean the worlds are directly in the multiverse and not in separate dimensions.

Isn't that the case?
The universes were placed there, its like a river and universes are bubbles, it also mentioned how each universes met their beginnings and end there
So yes.

 

[Mizuki67]

This matter of Veldanava needs to be explained again.

Did Veldanva create everything that exists after the Void World?

It is said that he created the Worlds, ok, this may be related to him creating everything else except Subspace and Void World, but...

In volume 21 it is said that Veldanava lost Turn Null when creating the World, so?

Its more like he stopped using it and became satisfied after creating all the other ideal worlds, void world is subspace and turn null probably originated from there
The other universes being born are born because of leftover turn null energy Veldanava used

 

[Digital_Franz]

Isn't that the case?
The universes were placed there, its like a river and universes are bubbles, it also mentioned how each universes met their beginnings and end there
So yes.

This seems to be the case

 

[Digital_Franz]

Its more like he stopped using it and became satisfied after creating all the other ideal worlds, void world is subspace and turn null probably originated from there
The other universes being born are born because of leftover turn null energy Veldanava used

It's a rather plausible thought

 

[Eikichi_Sensei]

Also, does anyone know how the verse is set up?

Dimensions>Spiritual Realms>Physical Worlds

Or...

Spiritual Realms>Physical Worlds=Dimensions?

 

[Mizuki67]

Also, does anyone know how the verse is set up?

Dimensions>Spiritual Realms>Physical Worlds

Or...

Spiritual Realms>Physical Worlds=Dimensions?

Spiritual realms=Dimensions>other universes

 

[Phoenks]

They cannot experience normal death

"natural death," meaning death via aging. The context suggests this. They were just talking about lifeforms not really aging.

Nothing there suggests Type 5. And again, there were multiple statements that showcased they are able to "die."

First off, around this much temperature is required to disintegrate even atoms, and it was basically stated that even if Rimuru's underlings[Ogres] combined all their abilities, it still wouldn't be enough to kill the Orc Lord off, where Benimaru's[one of the ogre] hell-flare can reach temperatures up to hundreds of millions of degrees, yet the orc lord still wouldn't have been defeated, and Rimuru stated his Ultra-speed regen was at least comparable, if not better, since he'd win in the end if they started consuming each other

This argument doesn't work because both Rimuru and Orc Disaster Geld possess significant fire and heat resistances. So the fire was not even affecting them to that extent in the first place.

For you to argue for High regeneration you'd need to showcase that they are able to regenerate from molecules.

Also, trying to use Quora for an argument is pretty bad. It doesn't really matter here since there are issues in the first place but try and get better sources if you can.

A photon is considered massless, yet an Information Particle's mass is even smaller than a photon and are the very foundation of the world, and they store one's information so no, its not actually finite value, it'll be 0, especially when the verse follows the theory of relativity that nothing can exceed the speed of light, yet Information particle travel anywhere at 0 time[i.e., faster than light]

Photons are still considered Macro-Quantum. Being significantly smaller than that would be quantum level. I never argued with that.

My main concern whether or not these spiritual and information aspects were entirely metaphysical. Cause from the descriptions they seem more like pseudo-physical quantum stuff.

IT's fine though, I don't really have much else to say on this for now. It probably works.

• Magic is the ability to interfere with the set of Laws governing the World, the World Language
• Magic rewrites the Laws of the World
• Again stated it is the ability to rewrite the Laws of the World, and using magic requires one to decipher these Laws

Upon looking through other pages this is probably fine.

 

[Mizuki67]

"natural death," meaning death via aging. The context suggests this. They were just talking about lifeforms not really aging.

Nothing there suggests Type 5. And again, there were multiple statements that showcased they are able to "die."

May i?
Yep, everyone can die, even High 1-A characters can die, saying they can die dont really do anything here, the question is, how hard is it for them to die?
They can't age, they can't be diseased, they are resistance to SEI, unaffected by all kinds of damages, regen from that damage, posses people, escape people, etc, the overcomed death means they literally can't be killed, even if you try, however its true they can be killed, but only if you get their core destroyed, the core is information and exist conceptually and blah blah blah, you get my point by now right?
Thats the reason for their several immortality.

This argument doesn't work because both Rimuru and Orc Disaster Geld possess significant fire and heat resistances. So the fire was not even affecting them to that extent in the first place.

For you to argue for High regeneration you'd need to showcase that they are able to regenerate from molecules.

Also, trying to use Quora for an argument is pretty bad. It doesn't really matter here since there are issues in the first place but try and get better sources if you can.

I am not sure myself as rimuru can even get low godly regen from ultra speed regeneration as high is lowball, but this is a discussion for another time, its night afterall, we wouldn't want to waste it trying to find scans (the novel of slime is long asf)