Tekken: 5-B upgrades for Jin, Jinpachi, & Azazel

[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

Interesting Planetary statements for Jinpachi & Azazel I've come across while scaling Tekken.

During Lei Wulong's Tekken 5 story mode, defeating Jinpachi will get you some interesting dialogue. Jinpachi tells Lei that if he's defeated, he'll tell Lei the truth. He then proceeds to tell Lei all of his backstory and how whatever is possessing him is telling him destroy the world. Although Lei defeating Jinpachi is obviously non canon, everything Jinpachi says in this dialogue is.

For Azazel, Zafina's prophecy states that when two evil stars come into contact, the seal of the tomb will be broken and the one held captive will be released, inevitably bringing about the destruction of the world. Along with Wang Jinrei stating a clash between Jin and Kazuya could destroy the world , Azazel is consistently planetary.

Jin Kazama of course has canonically defeated both Jinpachi and Azazel who both have planetary statements.

I have also looked at all the calculations for the Tekken page and I can safely say that these 3 statements couldn't be an outlier as opposed to the evidence for anything lower.

 

[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

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[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

bump

 

[Dark649]

Sorry for the wait, i just noticed this thread:

Saying destroy the world is Ôëá immediate planet busting, also since if it is not backed by very high tier feats of them.

Jimpachi was possessed by a seemingly nearly mindless vengeful spirit with the only one thought of destroying the world, these statements about it said by Raven and Jimpachi himself refers and implies that if he is not stopped he will undergo a final transformation as seen in the game over cutscene, which will make him far stronger however its not necessary to add since he is featless in that form and as such we don't know exactly its scale of destruction, also since Jin canonically stopped him before he assumed his final form.

About Azazel, the prophecy known by Zafina, Wang and likely Nina is false as stated in Raven reports: Its because it says that Azazel will be awaken and bring the destruction of the planet if Kazuya and Jin fights with eachother [also says that the world will be destroyed if they fight], but these two did not fought in the game and they previously fought in 4 but nothing happened [they are also destinied to fight eachother in the future 8 title], Azazel in 6 was awaken as mentioned by Jin himself in campaign because said being telepathically talked with him, telling him that he would awaken if the world is brought into chaos. Jin knew that said being was the origin of the devil gene and by killing him he would be free from it [however he thought wrong] and by using the resourches of the Zaibatsu, he started to ruin the planet and making suffer as many people possible [tekken 7 narrator reporter is one of them].

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

I agree with Dark649. Although Tekken 8 seems promising. I hope the Mishimas would be able to show above City Level feats and even mountain level ones just to show why they can stand up against Akuma and scale to that Jack 6 meteor feat.

 

[Dark649]

Jack 6 meteor feat is from tag 2, so its not canon. I hope better feat will be for them in 8, Jimpachi made a storm in 5 which i need to recheck its intensity, if it is a strong storm there is the possibilty that Jinpachi, Base Jin, Lars and Golden Azazel to become 7-B.

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

Is Base Jin gonna be upgraded to 7-B if he is seen to destroy or lift a skyscraper tho?

 

[Dark649]

It's not that impressive as defeating someone who can cause a storm, the only time i remember him destroying a skyscraper is in this trailer, but its not canon since Jin did not fought Kaz. in 6 story campaign.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You have too high expectations for them in tekken 8 to bring anything else at this point, Jinpachi storm feat needs a calc, Gun Jack satellite feat for destruction needs to be looked at again, mountains in the background are damaged compared to the view before the laser strikes, as well as the reaction speed of Gun Jack towards the laser, not to mention the laser feats in tekken 7 which are legit reactions, they moved after its fired and close to them

 

[BlackDarkness679]

And the statements mentioned arent to be disregarded, its mentioned throughout 2 games and recalled in tekken 7, also counting Raven journal as counter argument is fine but in tekken 5 with Jinpachi being stated to be a humanity wiper isnt, not all franchises show things, most are stated

 

[Dark649]

Jimpachi storm just ranges from Low 7-B to 7-B depending on the storm intensity, which i will have to analyze with other users.

Well i also think that Narutoforum calc might need an evaluation.

Gun Jack was able to react and put the forcefield yes, but Jack's in general are seen as common fodders.

Note: It might have been Gun Jack defense system to automatically put a barrier whatenever they are being threatened or simply Gun Jack had Jack-2 memories and was programmed to know and set up that to prevent the same outcome as before, so that might just scale to the Main Jack's [Gun, 5, 6 and 7] due to retaining the old memories.

I think laser reactions are aimdodging since there was a small gap of time for Heihachi to dodge the beams, he was unable to dodge a direct laser from Kazuya.

Jinpachi being a lifewiper comes from his final form, which prevented by Jin from happening.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Only the Mishimas and those comparable to them or below them by some bit should scale to Gun Jack, the rest should remain as they are for speed

BrainSword(i believe was the name) adressed that thing long ago, Kazuya made a triangle with the lasers around Heihachi, making him unable to go anywhere the only thing he could do was tank it, it doesnt contradict his speed, every speed feat the Mishimas had involving bullets and rockets are done casually or with ease, even the characters below them like bob can dodge these with ease, its not hard to see them have speeds higher then hypersonic

 

[Dark649]

Kazuya beam is Sub-Relativistic which is far higher than Hypersonic, also the speed was performed due to Kazuya firing at a long distance, the speed might be have been lower by being fired on a regular distance, so the lower beams would need to be calced and the dodging feats being proved as being not aimdodging.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You assume things now, why would the laser speed be slowed down when fired at short distances compared to the one against the satellite

Its already clear its not aim dodging, Heihachi vs Kazumi, Heihachi moves only after Kazumi fired the beam already and the scene looks like it was fairly close to him, Akuma vs Kazuya, Akuma moves only when the laser was already pretty close to him, the Gun Jack feat backs up that, along any other feats by Mishimas being done very casually, they are scaled from characters they can easily put down without struggle, their speed are clearly above the rest by a wide margin

 

[Dark649]

About Gun it might be the things i described, for example i don't see King having massive attack speed since Jack 7 [Far upgraded from Gun] was unable to react to his attacks.

Well, if more users/admins agrees its not aimdodging i will apply that.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Most character episodes are clear plot for whoever you play, Miguel beats Jin in his story, Shaheen beats Kazuya in his, Bob beats Bryan in his story, such things shouldnt be taken in consideration at all

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

In Tekken 2, didn't Heihachi outrun Devil Kazuya's laser? Applying his fight with Kazumi, I think Heihachi was faster when he was young. Maybe apply it to be around Massively Hypersonic at least.

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

And didn't Jinpachi have a final form as well? Couldn't we have that final form to be around At least 7-B, possibly 5-B or just At least 7B, likely much higher?

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

Now that I've thought about it more, I think you should apply Heihachi to be At least Massively Hypersonic.

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

Bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Jinpachi should still have on his profile from the statements a new key, even if not planet level, at least a multi continent level one, just cuz it comes from his final transformation that power, doesnt mean Jin or others comparable wouldnt scale, Azazel was also counted as a planetary threat by the lore, tekken 7 says too when recalling events, the major reason thats not counted is cuz he never displayed that power, that would mean Azazel had to destroy the world in order to see that and that wasnt gonna work for the story since he wouldnt have any other sequel after

Jin said even the newer comic books that his power would destroy the world and also in Devil Within that Ogre shook the Earth by mere foot steps, not to mention jack 6 meteor feat which calcs put it at multi continent, before any reply to my last sentence, i realize the 3 things mentioned are from non canon, but they support the power given in canon when it comes to world destroying statements, its not far fetched, its very possible

 

[BlackDarkness679]

In Tekken 2, didn't Heihachi outrun Devil Kazuya's laser? Applying his fight with Kazumi, I think Heihachi was faster when he was young. Maybe apply it to be around Massively Hypersonic at least.

He did, although him being MHS only cuz of age doesnt sound as a good reason, the only time he didnt dodge Kazuya laser was when Kazuya shot it around Heihachi forming a triangle shape, with lava erupting around, then he proceeded to shoot him, its not that he couldnt dodge it, he didnt had anywhere to move away from the shot

 

[Dark649]

- Devil Within Ogre [A stronger cloned Ogre] steps likely referred to just the ground of the ruins rather than the entire earth [also since they were underground and Ogre wanted to rise], non-canon Ogre has the Tag 2 feat of destroying a city with just a step.

- Jinpachi final form is featless, it has only statements so we can't exactly quantify its specific level of destruction.

- Azazel was hyped in the story, but did not shown himself that much. Yes, he was said to be rensposible of disasters around the planet but the planet himself was already ruined by Jin fulfilling Azazel request to ruin the planet so he could awaken him and the battles between Zaibatsu [Wang said that Zaibatsu has enough firepower to ruin over time the planet, Lars and Jin is aware that he throwed the planet to hell] and G. Corp. already heavily supplemented that. I recall that according to Mokujin non-canon campaign Azazel is a godly being that ruled the heavens, so its possible that he originally had a godly form and his game physical form is heavily nerfed, that is because Azazel believes to be a higher dimensional being but statements like that are viewed by Lars to be delusions of a monster and that form is not necessary to add.

- Devil Within, Blood Vengeance, SFxT, Comic Books, Most stuff from the Tag Games [Tag primise is to have non canon characters like Angel and Unknown in, Jack-6 feat is not multi-continental as i recall it being small country level], TK2 Kazuya ending [since that ending assumed that Kazuya espelled and killed the Devil being and not the stuff about the D.Gene] are not canon.

Here i'm fine about Gun Jack reactions and the Mishima's if its calced or just proved as not aimdodging.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Nowhere is mentioned it was a stronger Ogre and i dont remember anywhere saying it to be cloned or anything

Stated as a life wiper and world destroyer if he won and no one else defeated him, statemets like this lean towards multi continental if planet level isnt accepted, i asked others about what level would statements like this put a character, thats High 6-A at minimum

Lars opinion holds no weight, just cuz he thinks Azazel is delusional doesnt make his words more believable at all, especially others familiar with Azazel say otherwise and know more of him then Lars does, using that as an argument is not even legit

Azazel suffered of shitty writting when it was time to show off, such instances again shouldnt be used, thats like saying Shao Kahn shouldnt be X tier cuz in the story has bad showings

Blood Vengeance is half canon, we saw the devil forms in the ganes too from that movie, but changed a bit more, Harada already answered the question of were it falls in the series, you counted the tag 1 intro as canon in your blog last i recall btw

Jack 6 feat is multi continental, not small country, you went by the statement of being like the one that killed the dinos, yet it got calculated by people, it falls under the continental range of power

 

[BlackDarkness679]

@Dark649 what else you need for the laser reactions in the Mishimas?its been already proven its not aim dodging, you keep saying they saw the attack and moved a bit to avoid it, its not aim dodging if they react after its fired, which in both cases its done as that, Heihachi avoided Kazumi laser after she fires and it was close to him in the scene of the dodge, Akuma stood there after Kazuya fired the laser, he didnt move until the beam was already close to him

The page on this wiki also says its not aim dodging if the character moved after whatever attack launched was fired already, nome of the characters moved before the beams

 

[Dark649]

Its stronger since he survived a long a battle with Jin the first time and later took a beatdown from him before transforming, its likely a clone since the original Ogre died in 3 and that mode even had Heihachi as being cloned.

Jimpachi was possessed by an evil spirit bent with the only will of destoying and lifewiping humanity, the being just wanted to fucus just on pure destruction regardless of intelligence and power as such it was viewed as a threat by Raven and etc., unless he had shown feats in his final form we cannot assume he automatically attacks with High 6-A power, same for Azazel.

No, Azazel has unreliable statements like stating to be a higher dimensional being, he has not tier 2 or 1 stuff to back it up. Shao Kahn had feats like fighting with Raiden, who fought Shinnok and shock the earth, Algol from SC had him controlling a realm with planets, DMC has legit universal creation, separation and merging feats for examples. Azazel feats are only causing a geological impossible event like causing lava to rise from the ground in the sorroundings close to the temple, awakening said temple and for about ruining the planet, it was already as such due to Jin fullfilling Azazel order to ruin it, and the war with G.Corp. made things worst.

It would be better to not accept such statement from Harada since the movie ends up contraddicting the main canon.

It would just scale to non-canon Jack-6, bosses and the Mishima's.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Being stated he existed on a higher plane of existence doesnt lead to tier 2 or anything, that just means he is of supernatural origins and not earthly ones, you tried to use that long ago for me that i claimed such tiers as well, which is false, that statement only indicates about his origins, nothing more

Geoligical event caused by Azazel when he was likely still not fully awakened, you act like that feat took all his power, the story already said Azazel was a threat to humanity and that the planet was saved by Jin, Azazel needed just negative energy to return to our world, Jin war didnt destroy the planet or anything, he just caused a not scale war with other nations

Jinpachi power was stated by Raven corporation, Agency or whatever he works for, Raven had no idea of Jinpachi or that Heihachi didnt die at Honmaru, they knew, along how Jinpachi got chained down years ago, life wiping is multi continental in power, DMUA told me as well life wiping is multi continental level power, nothing else it could be, plus his storm feat is done by simply transforming into his demonic form, casual feat at its finest

Both Jinpachi and Azazel feats are done with very little of theor power, while at their strongest they are stated to be planetary level beings, 3 games straight kept saying statements of such power, at this point saying its just hype and hyperbole aint an option

Once again, not all events from the movie happened, he also said it himself, you keep saying no as if he said the movie is canon entirely, he said half canon, meaning those things you say are contradicting the games are out of the question, remaining only the ones that go well with what we seen later on in the series

 

[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

I just noticed this thread got replies lol

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I just noticed this thread got replies lol

Because the profiles need changes, especially the Mishimas and those comparable to them, they are way more powerful then just small city and city and clearly more faster then just hypersonic

 

[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

Oh did anything happen on this page at all? I'm kind of in the middle of a bigger thread right now lol.

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

Yep lol

 

[The_Web_Adventurer]

Do you agree we should make changes though? Because I do.

 

[JaJasBizarreAdventure]

Depending on what happened in this thread while I was gone, that's the mods' decision

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Well on another thread i discussed about these things for the verse

Anyway, thats a subject for another time, for now we need the next things done:

-the Gun Jack and Kazuya laser speed feats need to be counted for the characters that are comparable to mishimas or were shown to be above the robots in the series

-Paul profile needs to have the tier changed since he was a mishima tier character in the past games, until the power levels between him and the mishimas changed in tekken 4, Bryan, Yoshimitsu and Feng who you mentioned earlier would scale from the tekken 4 till tekken 7 version of him, it would likely still be the same tier but more weaker then before, we dont know by how much he got weak

-the laser feats also need the destruction calc another look, the Gun Jack one clearly destroyed some parts from the Alpin range they were nearby, comparing the image of before and after of the mountains, as for the Kazuya one, i saw someone that calced it somewhere, it was above City i think, Heihachi who took 6 lasers plus a charged one from the Super Devil form, that would be something important for the durability of Full Power Heihachi

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There are other feats that needs to be looked at and but for now these things shpuld be the main thing for speed and tier, it should make them sub relativistic and mountain level honestly

 

[Dark649]

Since the weakest volcano eruption should produce over 7 megatons megatons, Kazuya should scale to it since his body was still intact and was recovered when all the lava was gone, this also scales to T1-3 Paul since he struggled with Base Kazuya [said Kaz. defeated Heihachi without amps and the latter previously killed Devil Kazumi] for a long time, and Base Ogre since he fought said Paul.

After 3 Paul is described at 5:25 as you're not what you used to be by Kazuya in his campaign [implying that he actually considered him as rival] in 6 if he's the leader, but Paul still trained and tried to recover after 4 so he should be not that weaker, as such his Post 3 Key, Feng, Bryan and Yoshimitsu would be likely 7-B, those like Marshall Law will be scaling to at least Low 7-B from Nina and Claudio, who both somewhat held their own against a casual Heihachi.

I also think that Jinpachi feat is easily 7-B since sounds of rain and thunder are heard in the distance.

For the Sub-Relativistic dodging feats done by Heihachi/Akuma they should be talked with other users knowledgeble of the series/or just Redgrave in the verse page to have their/his opinion of the feats, also it should be discussed to an user that knows dodging feats to also have his opinion if possible, all those comparable to them might scale.

For the Laser Calc, i agree it should be evaluated with a user knowledgeble in calcs also with showing footage of T3-7 or if you can just post and ask for an evaluation about the upgraded calc you mentioned, it scales to those on D.Kazuya level.

I'm currently rewatching 5 and 6 to see again and in more details the statements about F.Jinpachi and Azazel, so they should be resolved for last.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I can agree with the scaling for the characters

There is needed to know how many tornadoes were made by Jinpachi, also i remember clouds were moved pretty fast by the storm made, those might yield even higher results possibly

Seems fair i suppose for speed

I forgot from where it was that calc i saw, but i could try to look around and see if i can find it

Those should be the last thing to discuss till everything else is done and see what we got by then

 

[Dark649]

Another thing to point out is that the volcano where Kazuya was thrown was canonically showed to bigger than originally in 4, upon drowning in the lava Kazuya in a nearly dead status due to receiving a heavy beatdown from Heihachi caused the volcano to erupt which is impressive.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Besides the feats we need to look over, there are also some abilities and resistances to talk and include to some profiles too, the Mishimas shown resistance to electricity manipulation, from both natural one and one from them, like when Kazuya and Lars shown in tekken 6 campaign, Kazuya and Heihachi in tekken 7 and Kazumi with that lightning strike during the boss fight scene before the devil transformation

 

[Dark649]

Seems fine, Heihachi intros and moves like Auger allows him to sorround his whole body in electricity and the concept behind his throws has him paralyzes the opponent, other mishimas can take it.

Active Devil Gene owners can sense eachother, Devil's also have enhanced senses and there is also the Devil Fist that allows D.Kazuya to go through the opponent.