Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 24,549
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Dr. Manhattan Durability is Unknown, so scaling his durability to superman's ap makes no sense when we see that his body has been destroyed by minors characters.
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Superman tier upgrade
- Thread starter DaReaperMan
- Start date
- Status
- 206
- 16
Implies will be need to defend himself if he gets in a brawl with superman. Despite his sins
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True tho
- 42,612
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- Thread starter
- #164
Remind me to never touch DC and Marvel like this again...
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Manhattan actually believes superman can destroy him.
- 42,612
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- Thread starter
- #166
Manhattan has been one-shot by basically fodder
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- Someone needing to defend themselves doesn't scale the other character.
- That's him threatening Superman if he doesn't try to take him out.
No he doesn't, again it's a generic "one of us has to win" here kind of thing. We also don't know the means of Superman's win, or its probability.
Regardless, it seems you dropped the point as you've agreed it's true that you can't scale to Manhattan off of his durability.
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Homie let’s just work on the low 2-C argument. One thing at a time.
- 42,612
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- Thread starter
- #169
Look, you can argue for tier 2 superman, but tier 1? We ain't scaling superman to Dr. Manhattan of all people
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This battle of DC scaling has being going on since the wiki started.
- 42,612
- 36,890
- Thread starter
- #171
I know lol
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,195
- 5,321
For f**k sake this crap again? It was already disprove that their clash wasn't destroying or threating any space-time continuum.
The entire universe was already tearing a part because of the previous actions of Superboy-Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr.
And the website never say that the fight between Post Crisis and Golden Age was the direct cause of all the destruction.
You forgot to mention that The Spectre also contribute, which it what trigger the new Big Bang to occur.
Was he capable to do that via his own sheer power or via preparation time and technology? Because that its pretty important.
Scaling Post-Crisis Superman to Silver Age Superman its utter absurdity that it shouldn't be considered, and Golden Age during Infinite Crisis should neither scale to Silver Age.
Again, you using Silver Age Captain Marvel to scale Post-Crisis Superman, which don't work because of the events in COIE.
Golden Age and Post-Crisis for defeating Prime where forced to send him first inside a red star (which take away his powers) and then to Oa where his surface was full of kryptonite.
You're ignoring the entire context of the fight, because if you did then you would have know that Prime was defeating everybody with ease, with the only exception of an Amped Flash.
Just because he fought him doesn't means that trully scale, unless he was trully show to be comparable.
Since as far i'm know Mordru its usually show to be far stronger than the likes of Superman.
Same as with Mordru.
Same as with Mordru.
And as far i'm remember Monarch stomped multiple versions of Captain Atom other to fight equally to Prime, so i have my serious doubt about this scaling.
That was Silver Age Superman, not Post-Crisis Superman.
Captain Atom its only proven to be weaker than Superman when he restrict himself from the Quantum Field, which he had to use to recreate the universe.
The scans never suggest that Rao created the universe, and Cythonna in the story was constantly beating Superman's ass.
Last time i check this story it isn't suppost to be canon.
Red King was using a piece of Materioptikon to perform those feats, that don't count as his own power.
Only when he upset the Matrix, and this power is not something that he can use in combat.
Nothing in that guy's statement indicate that he was referring to an actual universe, more like a metaphor than anything else.
The statement seen to suggest that Starman only conquered an universe, rather to become one.
Need more context for the guy holding the universe together and the Lasso of Truth, since i'm pretty sure there's more to this than meets the eye.
Yeah, there are plenty of problems with many of this supposed Universe level+ feats, especially when it involve scaling from Silver Age Superman and Superboy-Prime.
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- #174
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Only 14 or so, in fact there’s even a blog on why 4-B is actually the outlier.
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- Thread starter
- #176
actually its about 2-6 confirmed Low 2-C feats(from this batch), and more tier 5 feats then anything else, so i think 4-B is an outlier still but the tiering could be "Usually 5-B(or whatever tier 5 has the most feats),to 4-B, At most Low 2-C" make it a marvel deal
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The problem isn't that it's dubiously canon, but that it could be an illusion.
To further expand on a few things, as I noted in my post, Monarch stomped Superman (Countdown: Arena #1) and GA Supes was weakening with age (DC Comics Presents Annual 1 and 3). The stuff with Time Trapper might be inconsistent, but within the comic, Superman did fight him for a rather long period of time, unlike against Mordru. But yeah everything else is right, nice job on a few things I didn't catch.
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- Thread starter
- #178
of course my post above is just my two cents on this, I don't deal with big verses often at all, but I'm going off of what Marvel has going on for most of its cast on the wiki.
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So, wait... if 4-B is the outlier than this could probably end up going the opposite direction. Assuming Low 2-C is rejected, this might just put DC at 5-B.
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It isn't an outlier, there are enough 4-B feats to justify it and unlike with the 2-C stuff they aren't taken out of context or misinterpreted.
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- #181
It might be, but my two-cents is that we shouldn't ignore 14 or so 4-B feats, if Low 2-C is rejected it should be "Usually 5-B to 4-B" and if Low 2-C is accepted "Usually 5-B to 4-B, at most Low 2-C" to the end of that, but that is going off of how Marvel is handled so it maybe wrong
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....Let's just focus on the 2-C stuff for now. Any hypothetical 5-B downgrade should be its own thread.
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I can confidently say if I’m gonna be able to debunk 1 universal+ feat from Nia’s page against himself it’s gonna be a lot. Then again he isn’t bound by our standards. Which is also why this keeps being brought up probably.
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You can argue Supes holds back when performing the low 2-C feats as well.
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- #188
from what i've been reading there are about 2-6 confirmed Low 2-C feats, but considering this is DC we need more then that don't we?
yeah
I see that, and of course even though i do have the time to actually go through EVERY 4-B DC profile to apply things this is still changing DC tiering
without enough of that delicious solar energy Supes is probably in the tier 8 range funnily enough
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- #189
superman in-character basically holds back 24/7 unless he is seriously and utterly pissed
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Fanon was going to downgrade superman to High 4C or baseline 4B before the forum move. There was a blog about why 4B is wrong.
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Yup and even then he probably holds back.
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He was more gonna splice into keys, certain versions of Supes would stay 4-B. Others would go down to 5-B.
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Not all of them. Like, when destroying the Shadow Moon knocked himself out. A good bit of them are casual though.
Eh he still survived a nuke without it from what I recall.
Actually even when serious he holds back lol (Superman #217).
Anyways if Superman got a varies or possibly kind of tier, that'd be fine with me. Maybe we could give him something like Captain Atom's page with separate keys for holding back or going all out.
I think I have a vague memory of that. I did disagree with some of the points though, while the "50 supernovas" thing isn't truly Solar System level, the Sun-Eater was still the size of a nebula and was attacking multiple star systems.
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I love how people just say “lol can’t scale to Silver Age” when about 1/3 of the founding six weren’t reset by the COIE (Hal and Barry).
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I mean, Hal struggled to do things he could easily do before (The Green Lantern Corps #215) so I don't think we can just assume he was the same power level. Not sure for Barry though.
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There’s also the fact that Wally surpassed SA Barry, who scales to SA Supes. And people keep up with Wally.
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Yeah and Supes struggles to hold up buildings occasionally. Diana outright says that arrows eff her over more than Doomsday punches.
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The timestream got changed, not Hal’s abilities
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I just noticed what you meant. Time travel and raw power aren't one in the same. Just because one hax got harder (which eventually got rectified anyway) doesn’t mean that everything else went down the drain.
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