General DC Comics Discussion Thread

[Wirtzwest]

@PromptedElephant641 thanks for the input. From what l have seen the essential divinity is the only paraconsistent tier 0, what happens if there beings which do not fit such any kind of logical description or are absolutely ineffable like the overvoid, swirl of the root and dematteis god? Do they settle for type 2?

 

[PromptedElephant641]

@PromptedElephant641 thanks for the input. From what l have seen the essential divinity is the only paraconsistent tier 0, what happens if there beings which do not fit such any kind of logical description or are absolutely ineffable like the overvoid, swirl of the root and dematteis god? Do they settle for type 2?

By definition all Tier 0s have PP Type-3; however, as stated, when indexing their abilities only that which has been demonstrated is presented on the profile which is why all Tier 0 power and abilities sections say the following:

• Omnipotence, Omnipresence & Omniscience.
  
  Specific applications include: ………

The PP Type-3 is granted already within the power of being an omnipotent Tier-0 being; any particular powers are then provided in the “specific applications include:” section

The Overvoid and Swirl of The Root are only granted in their “specific applications include:” section that which they have shown. In The Overvoid’s case, that is PP Type-1 and with The Swirl of The Root and DeMatteis depiction of God in DC, these two have demonstrated PP Type-3.

Many verses have outdated PP statistics based on older versions of the power; however, there is an on going revision thread that is taking care of these issues. In general, PP Type-3 (having 5 or more logic states) is very very hard to obtain and only a few characters in a few verses actually meet those qualifications. Of those few that do have the ability, most are just the bare minimum with 5 truth / logic states, there are only a handful of characters that have more than 5 with some even having infinite.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Coming to this can an ineffable being be PP Type-3?

True ineffability, such as through the ultimate interpretation of Negative Theology, is by definition Tier-0. As such, yes they would have PP Type-3; however, like with the other Tier 0s mentioned, it would only have the powers it has actually demonstrated as part of the “specific applications include:” section so unless it has a specific statement(s) showing evidence of PP Type-3, that would not be put on the profile.

 

[Wirtzwest]

True ineffability, such as through the ultimate interpretation of Negative Theology, is by definition Tier-0. As such, yes they would have PP Type-3; however, like with the other Tier 0s mentioned, it would only have the powers it has actually demonstrated as part of the “specific applications include:” section so unless it has a specific statement(s) showing evidence of PP Type-3, that would not be put on the profile.

Okay l see.

 

[KirbyFan03]

Devilance vs Lan (DC vs HSR)

lets get it active again

 

[AndrewBennet]

I think that the people pushing so hard for Superman 1-A just like the rank more than the justification as to why he should be 1-A. At least that's the impression I'm getting.

Superman has High 1A outliers in demattis run . In the power of love arc with Nekron . The story is akin to Spiderman story

 

[DecisiveGoldfinch419]

Superman has High 1A outliers in demattis run . In the power of love arc with Nekron . The story is akin to Spiderman story

Which Issues are those?

 

[Asterotheology]

Which Issues are those?

Probably referring to the Superman run with Neron. Or the Where Thy sting, where Superman briefly connects with Lois using love and overcomes death. Not to be confused with Death of the Endless. But the martian god of death from DeMatteis Martian Manhunter run from the 90s. Otherwise, DeMatteis has never written a story with Nekron, as far as I'm aware.

The Issues are Superman: Man of Tomorrow #15 for the Neron comic. And the one shot Where Thy Sting for the Martian Death.

By the way, looking over the recent tier system thread. At least from my understanding of the changes. It's pointless to talk about High 1-A anything for any character or realm. Since the current High 1-A tiers are being moved down to 1-A and 1-A+. While High 1-A type 1 becomes just High 1-A and Type 2 becomes just High 1-A+. So the Creator would be High 1-A and Pralaya would be High 1-A+ after these changes. Nothing else in DC will be above 1-A. Outside of God, obviously.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

Probably referring to the Superman run with Neron. Or the Where Thy sting, where Superman briefly connects with Lois using love and overcomes death. Not to be confused with Death of the Endless. But the martian god of death from DeMatteis Martian Manhunter run from the 90s. Otherwise, DeMatteis has never written a story with Nekron, as far as I'm aware.

The Issues are Superman: Man of Tomorrow #15 for the Neron comic. And the one shot Where Thy Sting for the Martian Death.

By the way, looking over the recent tier system thread. At least from my understanding of the changes. It's pointless to talk about High 1-A anything for any character or realm. Since the current High 1-A tiers are being moved down to 1-A and 1-A+. While High 1-A type 1 becomes just High 1-A and Type 2 becomes just High 1-A+. So the Creator would be High 1-A and Pralaya would be High 1-A+ after these changes. Nothing else in DC will be above 1-A. Outside of God, obviously.

It wasn’t the Martian God of Death but Superman’s own personal death entity, which implies that each being has their own personal death entity. It is a strange story, while Superman experiences it all within his mind, it is also is confirmed to have actually happened. However, It is not really something that can be scaled from though.

 

[Kinggg121132]

6-A Tournament R1 – Match 4: Saxton Hale (Team Fortress 2) vs. Superman (All Star) 0-0-0

While we wait for the great Deku vs Magneto debate to end, I figured I'd start the next match. However, I think this is a stomp and was tempted to skip it, but I'll make this match anyway. If it's a hard stomp (Bracket put them together randomly so), I'll just auto-move Superman forward, but...

vsbattles.com

 

[Wirtzwest]

We like to talk about how any verse written by dematteis breaks the scaling. Though he has some of the best superman stories ever. He even wrote in my view the most op version of supergirl, superman, Franklin richards and spiderman to date. He manages to traverse across all of existence through limitless planes of existence where time, space, ego.He travels across more ontological realm where the previous is merely a dream of the higher plane. This literally means he speedblitz existence in realms beyond time and space into places that aren't places in non-time and non-space. He also survives that death of the Universe into the Void that enmanted all things.

 

[PromptedElephant641]

We like to talk about how any verse written by dematteis breaks the scaling. Though he has some of the best superman stories ever. He even wrote in my view the most op version of supergirl, superman, Franklin richards and spiderman to date. He manages to traverse across all of existence through limitless planes of existence where time, space, ego.He travels across more ontological realm where the previous is merely a dream of the higher plane. This literally means he speedblitz existence in realms beyond time and space into places that aren't places in non-time and non-space. He also survives that death of the Universe into the Void that enmanted all things.

DeMatteis has written some great stories for DC, though in the VS space, this is unfortunately overlooked and only the feats are noticed.

DeMatteis is quite consistent in writing the same depiction of a Tier-0 God across multiple DC comic series and even across different publishers such as the Divine Creator for Marvel or in creator owned publications such as Seekers into Mystery. However, while his Tier-0 depictions of God are consistent, unfortunately his writing of 1-A and High-1A realms is less so. This is because while he writes realms at these levels, he also writes characters from lower levels of reality, particularly from the material world, easily interacting with these higher levels of the metaphysical world which breaks the rules of qualitative and meta-qualitative transcendence. While this isn’t always the case, it happens quite frequently in his work. Yes he has written many high level characters and has described high tier metaphysical structures, he has also shown on many an occasion low tier characters traveling to, through, and beyond these realms so it is important to separate the real high tier DeMatteis feats from those that violate the rules of qualitative and meta qualitative transcendence.

 

[Wirtzwest]

DeMatteis has written some great stories for DC, though in the VS space, this is unfortunately overlooked and only the feats are noticed.

DeMatteis is quite consistent in writing the same depiction of a Tier-0 God across multiple DC comic series and even across different publishers such as the Divine Creator for Marvel or in creator owned publications such as Seekers into Mystery. However, while his Tier-0 depictions of God are consistent, unfortunately his writing of 1-A and High-1A realms is less so. This is because while he writes realms at these levels, he also writes characters from lower levels of reality, particularly from the material world, easily interacting with these higher levels of the metaphysical world which breaks the rules of qualitative and meta-qualitative transcendence. While this isn’t always the case, it happens quite frequently in his work. Yes he has written many high level characters and has described high tier metaphysical structures, he has also shown on many an occasion low tier characters traveling to, through, and beyond these realms so it is important to separate the real high tier DeMatteis feats from those that violate the rules of qualitative and meta qualitative transcendence.

This is due to how his cosmology works. The breaks and bypass in qualitative transcendence is due to consciousness, transcendence, self realisation and spiritual journeys. Remember everyone in Dematteis works has the seed of the absolute within them. That's why to be fair his stories are a bit repetitive when it comes to the cosmology because it's the same exact formula.