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Superman (Rebirth) 2-A removal

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I mean I don't believe we've restricted making Prime 1 Million page altogether, unless I'm mistaken.
 
I think that he was deemed to have too uncertain statistics and too few appearances, but may misremember.
 
I agree with Confluctor.
 
Prime One Million never appeared in the 6th Dimension, nor did he absorb upper dimension hydrogen; he absorbed energy from the regular Yellow Sun. And in he's mostly featless as well as the story making it obvious there are a lot of things that other characters (Including other Supermen) can do but he can't. So he has a different issue altogether.

So the poll we were discussing has less to do with outcome but how we treat the feat in question. Option A just saying "It's an outlier" with Option B saying "It's a legit feat done with a very specific circumstance that legit gives him an upgrade so it's a legit feat". Which most agree in lack of better options. But Imp-ress said we got that out of the way.

The poll that was on my mind happens after all that.

The_Impress said:
Option A: Key is too minor to be listed given the number of appearances it has, that being, the lone comic, alongside having certain fixed conditions like the realm Superman is in, something we don't list, supposedly.

Option B: Key is relevant to be listed because it's greatly important in-verse, given it leads to a repeatedly referenced event that serves as a basis for most modern DC cosmic storylines, and these finale keys are commonly listed on the files

In the former option, given vs. debating notability, we'll have to word a note stating while we acknowledge the feat as valid, it was too specific and minor to be relevantly listed on the file, and in the latter case it gets listed as a separate key.
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Yeah, that does sound about right. Option A is dependent on multiple conditional branches for a one time event, and is more so via a realm that could make anybody 1-A, which I don't think we normally give keys if specific to a realm that makes anybody like that which they cannot access to normally.

Though, I don't really see how it's a Final Boss situation. It seems Option B here appears to be comparing it more so when some RPG protagonist had the strongest version of their legendary weapon to take on the final boss; which the difference is that is still via a personal weapon that they were more or less destined to use. Where as here, Superman and Batman are borrowing powerups from Mister Mxy, then entering a realm that isn't their dominion. And then they worked together to prep amp Superman some more using upper dimensional stars Batman moved using upper dimensional technologies.

But as I said, I would definitely make this a range feat for Mister Mxyzptlk.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, that does sound about right. Option A is dependent on multiple conditional branches for a one time event, and is more so via a realm that could make anybody 1-A, which I don't think we normally give keys if specific to a realm that makes anybody like that which they cannot access to normally.
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I mean I think we haven’t given keys in these scenarios because it’s extremely rare for any of these to happen to begin with, I don’t think appeal to tradition is valid here.

A similiar case to recall here may be of Man-Thing however, who does have powers granted to him by a location, Nexus of All Realities, on his file. Of course the cases aren’t 1-to-1, Man-Thing’s connections to the Nexus are extremely relevant, but it does hit similiarity in the sense that it is a location which amps the user, just that it happens to amp the relevant user greatly within it, so that is listed on files.

Man-Thing page has been on for a long while, its mechanics should very well have been noted, and there have been threads regarding the character, so for all intents and purposes wiki does allow these mechanics.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Though, I don't really see how it's a Final Boss situation. It seems Option B here appears to be comparing it more so when some RPG protagonist had the strongest version of their legendary weapon to take on the final boss; which the difference is that is still via a personal weapon that they were more or less destined to use. Where as here, Superman and Batman are borrowing powerups from Mister Mxy, then entering a realm that isn't their dominion. And then they worked together to prep amp Superman some more using upper dimensional stars Batman moved using upper dimensional technologies.
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I just think this distinction is arbitrary, there are still amping and the degree of amps Superman gets, is irreplicable by anyone else.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But as I said, I would definitely make this a range feat for Mister Mxyzptlk.
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I mean two aren’t mutually exclusive, so sure.
 
Considering that Superman needs to be in a location dimensions away from Earth to reach the high tier to begin with, I think it would be like giving DC characters 4th World keys due to Boom Tube changes and what not.
 
Firestorm makes a valid point.
 
We normally don't give keys location based power up unless it's either their personal location/home or a place they have access to on a regular basis. The 5-D Imps returning to the 5th dimension is an example, but the 4th World/Boom Tube as well as the 6th dimension I do not think qualify.
 
Thank you for the evaluation.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Could both sides please calm down?

Anyway, I don't think appeal to popularity or appeal to authority are particularly the best practice compared to pointing out genuine facts combined with our main policy on keys. Most option B supporters believe option A is appeal to authority where as the other option A supporters could see option B as appeal to popularity. But here's the main recap.

It's a 1-A feat as opposed to 2-A, but the feat is due to the nature of the realm rather than a power up Superman can regularly give himself access to. And the realm is something only Mr Mxy is able to amplify others to reach, so it's definitely a range upgrade for him. And this is a realm where even Batman level characters become 1-A when entering. Meaning we might need to give Batman a key too if we go with option B.

But anyway, I personally think Option A should be reworded that instead of labeling it as an extreme outlier, I would prefer to label it as an extremely situational requirement to the point where I wouldn't really give a key for. It's not like it was some transformation he tapped in when desperation requires, nor is it due to some personal weapon, it's getting amplified by Mr Mxy + being teleported to a realm. And it's not like Post-Crisis Superman has a Boomtube key for much of the same situations. This isn't really something that highlights Superman as being special, as anybody would be 1-A if they were amped by Mr Mxy + teleported to 6th dimension. Which any DC Superhero or even characters outside of DC would have been amped the same way. It's just a feat for Mxy and no one else really. So I'd rewrite it as this.

Option A: This is a range feat for Mister Mxyzptlk, in which he has the power to grant any character access to the 6th dimension; a realm that amplifies characters to 1-A. But we do not give out keys just because they entered the realm before.

Option B: Same as above, except we do give keys to each and every single character who has ever stepped foot in the 6th dimension and we acknowledge they only become this strong when amplified by Mister Mxyzptlk and taken there. Which includes Superman and Batman.
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Medeus being spot on. Thank you for clearing up this thread. I’d like to note that World Forger is probably one of the stronger guys in the 6th dimension, so while Batman is 1-A in this realm, Superman has some decent scaling above that in the realm. Making it a bit more worth of a key. Aside from that I’m neutral really.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
We normally don't give keys location based power up unless it's either their personal location/home or a place they have access to on a regular basis. The 5-D Imps returning to the 5th dimension is an example, but the 4th World/Boom Tube as well as the 6th dimension I do not think qualify.
Click to expand...
This is a made-up rule though, Boom Tube keys aren't notable enough to be listed but the 6th Dimension is, given in-verse notability.
 
The_Impress said:
This is a made-up rule though, Boom Tube keys aren't notable enough to be listed but the 6th Dimension is, given in-verse notability.
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People do actually have some good stuff in the sphere of the gods. Like Superman being capable of destroying the Phantom Zone, so I’d say they’re both pretty notable.
 
Yeah fair, maybe certain characters who are dead (and it being a key part of their character) could qualify for a 4th world key.
 
I don't think human souls in the afterlife are supposed to be on the level of New God Emanations or Godheads.
 
That's correct. Same way you don't need a boom tube or some form of amp to reach Bleed.

But anyway, that's rather irrelevant to the overall discussion. This thread has already been derailed enough as it is.
 
So what are the staff conclusions here regarding which of Medeus' options that we should use?
 
We agreed that the old option B is better in lack of options; it's a very situational amp and not an outlier.

But I already said my thoughts that I don't think we normally give keys for amps that are a multi step situational practice that has only ever been set foot once. And Firestorm also seemed to show agreement that we normally don't give keys for being teleported to a specific realm by another character, much like Post-Crisis Superman's Boomtube.
 
Medeus makes some good points above.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But I already said my thoughts that I don't think we normally give keys for amps that are a multi step situational practice that has only ever been set foot once.
Click to expand...
As stated before, the sole reason the key existed was to scale SMP1M to it. Once that profile was deleted there's no reason to keep it around. We can just remove it and note later on its just a one time amp and none of our profiles are meant to cover those.
 
That seems fine to me as well.
 
Yeah, we nuked Prime One Million. And even before then, more details confirms the opposite is true and One Million has like 0 right to scale. We might as well get rid of the key outright and leave a foot note about it being it being too situational.
 
Seeing as how there was alot of support (pretty much a landslide) for Option B, let's wait and see supporters for Option B to make a case before we do any hasty decisions
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, we nuked Prime One Million. And even before then, more details confirms the opposite is true and One Million has like 0 right to scale. We might as well get rid of the key outright and leave a foot note about it being it being too situational.
Click to expand...
Okay. Would you or Qawsedf234 be willing to handle it please?
 
SPOM is 100000% irrelevant to the discussion. But ye, might wanna add a note at the bottom about it being not an outlier and one time amp thus can't be added as a straight up tier.


Also we agreed somewhere in the thread he will get "higher with absorption" - PC but applies to this Kal too.
 
Would you be willing to adjust the page Confluctor? I can unlock it for you.
 
Thank you for helping out. I made some structural changes to the footnote explanation though:

vsbattles.fandom.com

Superman (Rebirth)

Superman, also known as Clark Kent and Kal-El, is a Kryptonian superhero. Though born of the planet Krypton, he was sent away in a spaceship as a baby to save him from his home planet's destruction. His spaceship landed on Earth in Smallville, Kansas where he was found and adopted by Jonathan...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
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