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The other final bosses also took a entire game to built as well Cal, the Eclipse Cannon does have a piercing the stars feat, Wiindii's translation proves that
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Super Sonic Rebuff
- Thread starter The_Smashor
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@Shadow, there's no proof that Eggman only had one emerald. But that's still a main plot point because Eggman literally has all 7 in his possession which Sonic began collecting them. The fact that they still needed all 7 to undo it also shows a connection that Chaos Emeralds shouldn't be 5-A unless all 7 of them are together. The Gaia Temples probably still have powers of their own with or without Chaos Emeralds given they're used to seal Dark Gaia.
Base Sonic still struggles to fight enemies less than Tier 5 and doesn't really have many feats or reason to be Tier 5. "Piercing the Stars" is also not even Tier 5 if all it means is put a whole through them. It's also derived from the Japanese Word "Hoshi" which can mean planet or star; and it's more consistent to actually mean planet. If it said suns, then it would be a different story since that's what most fictions call stars. But Japan often calls planets stars.
Base Sonic still struggles to fight enemies less than Tier 5 and doesn't really have many feats or reason to be Tier 5. "Piercing the Stars" is also not even Tier 5 if all it means is put a whole through them. It's also derived from the Japanese Word "Hoshi" which can mean planet or star; and it's more consistent to actually mean planet. If it said suns, then it would be a different story since that's what most fictions call stars. But Japan often calls planets stars.
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Shadow used the Eclipse Cannon to destroy the Black Comet because that's why it was built for, the Chaos Control was just to teleport It to space.
The emerald was in a cage, no alien were using it's power
The emerald was in a cage, no alien were using it's power
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Piercing the stars at the highest extrapolation is 4-C. And while I don't have a problem with 4-C, that isn't the feat to get him there.
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True, but the Eclipse Cannon wasn't even built by Eggman and the reason it needs all seven emeralds was because the Black Arms wanted them, Gerald says this at the end of Shadow the Hedgehog.
DDM I trust Wiindii's translation they are extremely knowledgeable into translating Sonic games, both him and the oficial game use star, Wiindii would have know if it meant planet, they are extremely knowledgeable on the japanese language
DDM I trust Wiindii's translation they are extremely knowledgeable into translating Sonic games, both him and the oficial game use star, Wiindii would have know if it meant planet, they are extremely knowledgeable on the japanese language
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I think the FEB calc is iffy to be honest, the whole process of the stars being destroyed wasn't directly shown, are we certain that the stars were taken out by a single omnidirectional explosion rather than multiple direct blasts from a single source?
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The FEB needs to charge to fire one shoot, Eggman's fires it and them says that all the stars of the area have been destroyed
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Where was it stated or shown that Eggman had all 7?
Them needing 7 Emeralds to restore it doesn't mean that one wasn't used to split it. A bomb can destroy a city but it can't restore it.
There are better reasons for tier 5 base characters than using single emerald feats, but that's another topic.
Them needing 7 Emeralds to restore it doesn't mean that one wasn't used to split it. A bomb can destroy a city but it can't restore it.
There are better reasons for tier 5 base characters than using single emerald feats, but that's another topic.
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They needed all seven to restore all seven continents, only one restored a continent, but that's off-topic
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Shadow still used all 7 Chaos Emeralds to destroy the Black Comet since he instantly reverted back into his base form after using it. Also the fact that he used the Cannon rather than smashing it himself or the fact that Eggman or Doom literally needed all 7 just to destroy the planet says something.
I trusts Sera's translation more given she's a knowledgeable member here. I recall her saying that Piercing Planets makes more sense then Piercing stars given that he literally used it on planets rather than stars. Same reason Boros was going to shave the planet rather than shaved the star. Sera also actually lives in Japan so she would know.
There was no reason for the cage to be there, and it was stated that black alien was carrying it by Sonic. The cage was probably a game mechanic since the Chaos Emerald was supposed to be unskippable.
I trusts Sera's translation more given she's a knowledgeable member here. I recall her saying that Piercing Planets makes more sense then Piercing stars given that he literally used it on planets rather than stars. Same reason Boros was going to shave the planet rather than shaved the star. Sera also actually lives in Japan so she would know.
There was no reason for the cage to be there, and it was stated that black alien was carrying it by Sonic. The cage was probably a game mechanic since the Chaos Emerald was supposed to be unskippable.
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Again, I don't care about the level of base Sonic. I don't know nor care if he's High 6-A or 5-B. Y'all can decide that one, and I'm not saying that as bitter old Cal. I am curious on what the specific feat are though.
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It fired once and Eggman says "Look! All the stars over there have been destroyed!"AguilaR101 said:
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Because that's what Gerald wanted, the Black Comet also has shields, both Black Doom and Eggman's didn't want to destroy the planet in that game, Doom needed it to teleport the Black Comet
She did that a long time ago and Wiindii's has tranlated Sonic games for years, Black Doom sayed that quote to show how powerful the Eclipse Cannon was, how he intended to use it isn't important, also being a member in this wikia doesn't mean that you are a good translator, this isn't a translator wikia, I also think that they live on Japan as well
Sonic never says that the Black Arms were carrying it, he says that it was on the cage, also the Black creatures are mindless, they probaly don't even know how to use it, the emerald is also unskippable in gameplay as well
She did that a long time ago and Wiindii's has tranlated Sonic games for years, Black Doom sayed that quote to show how powerful the Eclipse Cannon was, how he intended to use it isn't important, also being a member in this wikia doesn't mean that you are a good translator, this isn't a translator wikia, I also think that they live on Japan as well
Sonic never says that the Black Arms were carrying it, he says that it was on the cage, also the Black creatures are mindless, they probaly don't even know how to use it, the emerald is also unskippable in gameplay as well
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@Cal, High 6-A comes from multiple sources; this includes Eggrobo absorbing the Earth's Geothermal energy, Emerl's destroy the World statement which is akin to destroying all life on the Earth as opposed to dispersing the GBE, and fighting a weakened Ifrit; who at his prime was powerful enough to scorch the Earth's surface.
@User, also; there's also Rouge's Mission in Sonic Adventure 2. There was the mission where you had 5 minutes to find 3 Chaos Emeralds and it's random where they are. But sometimes, their literally inside one of the fodder Gun Mechs.
@User, also; there's also Rouge's Mission in Sonic Adventure 2. There was the mission where you had 5 minutes to find 3 Chaos Emeralds and it's random where they are. But sometimes, their literally inside one of the fodder Gun Mechs.
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There's no proof that those Gun mechs were using the power of the emeralds though, having one doesn't mean that you are using their power, also the 5- B discussion should be saved for another thread
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Sonic feats varies depending on the writer, he varies from High 6-A as Medeus explained to 5-B or 5-A since he staggered Dark Gaia/easily defeated Perfect Chaos/maybe the black holes stuff? to Low 2-C by defeating Void and Erazor Djin.The real cal howard said:
About Battle, Ultimate Emerl was said that he could destroy the planet and he can even as rated as at least High 6-A since attacks on that scale can destroy it with little time. It absorbed the residual energy of the FEB, yes but was overloading due to not being able to contain it.
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The Black Hole calc was rejected due to not being real black holes; and said black holes one shot Sonic anyway, so he doesn't scale. Emerl also basically just looked at the FEB's effect which caused him to overlord and attempt to destroy the planet; he never scales from the full power at all.
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Theuser789 said:
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I feel Sonic is very much like Superman and DC comics in general and is super duper inconsistent, and we should just find a consistent rating for both, base and Super.
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The variable tier for Super Sonic is fine as it is.
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That's the point, Mario and Sonic are both like Marvel and DC Comics that there's all these inconsistencies all over the place. Super Sonic's variable from 5-A to 2-C I also think is fine as it is with Sera also agreeing.
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TBH I think there's more universal feats than planetary for Super Sonic, there's at least 4 of them, meanwhile the 5-A all scale to each other from one feat, it was also said that emeralds turn thought into power so regular people using the emeralds would be more powerful than machines, but the Varies is already good enough ( and I really don't want to lose 2-C)
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Even though bringing back 4-A would be pretty good
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With Marvel and DC, you get a bunch of different writers who will disagree with each other on how the characters should be portrayed. In one panel, they can blow up whole universes but in the next, they're getting beat up by street thugs.
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@Theuser789 Yeah Super Sonic has 4 tier 2 feats and other than Dark Gaia, he doesn't really struggle with the tier 5 threats as they can't even hurt him.
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Super Sonic is more consistent with Tier 5 or less than he is Tier 2, but 2-C is at his peak is still fine. And there's a bunch of statements that range from Tier 6 to Tier 5 for nearly every end game Sonic boss; Metal Overlord, Final Hazard, Perfect Chaos, Black Doom, but 5-A is still the reasonable consistent low end.
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TBH not really, the only I can renember that has a statment like that is Chaos and the Final Hazard, but anyway I still think that bringing 4-A back should be resonable, especialy since we went off-topic for a moment.
Black Doom and Metal Overlord are only 5-A via scaling to Super Sonic
Black Doom and Metal Overlord are only 5-A via scaling to Super Sonic
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Yeah I do recall Tikal stating that Perfect Chaos could destroy the world. Super Sonic though is outright superior to Perfect Chaos because he could only harness the negative energy, and Super Sonic's positive energy is stated to be superior to it.
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That's not what I was trying to imply but yes.
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I still think that the machines that Eggman built who could fight Super Sonic should also be 4-A, It would make sense for they have similar power as Eggman's strongest inventions and they had similar amount of prep time to be built
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That's still not really how basic weapon/vehicle scaling works. We don't assume every vehicle we built is on par with Warheads and satellite weapons even if it took as much time to built. FEB is just one random weapon designed for it's very short lived purpose and very inconsistent with Eggman's regular inventions with or without Chaos Emeralds. Chaos Emeralds being superior to FEB is covered by the Tier 2 stuff. And even Eggman's other inventions that are special literally struggle to do Tier 6 or even Tier 5 stuff with or without Chaos Emeralds.
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But the diference is that Eggman would have to use his most powerful inventions to fight Super Sonic, I am not saying that every robot is 4-A, only the ones that fought Super Sonic since It would make sense that Eggman uses his strongest machs to do so, he still managed to built a 4-A machine, it's purpose isn't relevant
Those other machines are beatten by base Sonic, I am refering to the ones that fight Super Sonic
Those other machines are beatten by base Sonic, I am refering to the ones that fight Super Sonic
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3. Egg Salamander imo was pure chain reaction.ShadowWarrior1999 said:
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I think Executor had the right idea regarding the Egg Salamander.
"No, a chain reaction is when something starts a cycle of destruction when something when destroyed lead to another thing begin destroyed and so on. Like when a atom colapse and then the reamins lead to the colapse of another atom and this repet. So the only thing that needs to happens is the frist colapse, all the others will happen without any amount new amount of energy.
Emeralds attract, and this also affects the original reality of each, making as the emeralds attract, the universes also attract because of the power of the emeralds. This ends up generating a collapse in continuous space-time that would destroy everything.
The same power of the emeralds that could destroy the universes, could also be used to create new universes like Eggman and Eggman Nega would do. So there's no way to fit into "chain reaction," unless you wanted to say that there is some sort of chain reaction to creating new universes, which has never been said within the Sonic franchise (at least not a universe that would be greater than two other universes)"
"No, a chain reaction is when something starts a cycle of destruction when something when destroyed lead to another thing begin destroyed and so on. Like when a atom colapse and then the reamins lead to the colapse of another atom and this repet. So the only thing that needs to happens is the frist colapse, all the others will happen without any amount new amount of energy.
Emeralds attract, and this also affects the original reality of each, making as the emeralds attract, the universes also attract because of the power of the emeralds. This ends up generating a collapse in continuous space-time that would destroy everything.
The same power of the emeralds that could destroy the universes, could also be used to create new universes like Eggman and Eggman Nega would do. So there's no way to fit into "chain reaction," unless you wanted to say that there is some sort of chain reaction to creating new universes, which has never been said within the Sonic franchise (at least not a universe that would be greater than two other universes)"
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What's happening here?
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I have no idea, I am just trying to argue for 4-A to be brought back
ShakeResounding
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4 Tier 2 feats it is, then?ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Executor's good at that "wall of text" stuff, but geez does it give me a headache after a while.
@Mav I'd like to know too. The original intent of this thread is being tossed around like a hot potato.
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I'll still contest that. As much as nobody says it, Ex isn't always right, yet everyone (including me) treats his word as law for both, Sonic and Digimon.
The Emeralds didn't do anything. They didn't fuse the universes, they were doing that on their own. Blaze's world just followed the Sol Emeralds. At the absolute best, the feat is Low 2-C, not 2-C.
The Emeralds didn't do anything. They didn't fuse the universes, they were doing that on their own. Blaze's world just followed the Sol Emeralds. At the absolute best, the feat is Low 2-C, not 2-C.
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The Egg Salamender was using the Sol emeralds to merge both universes after stealing it from Blaze, also this is off-topic
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