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Super Smash Discussion 5

Also I don't know about you guys but I managed to get regular blastline KOs with Hero even in stamina mode. That can't be normal.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Also I don't know about you guys but I managed to get regular blastline KOs with Hero even in stamina mode. That can't be normal.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by Blastline KOs?
 
By that I mean that I launched them beyond the blastlines instead of just depleting their HP. Despite, y'know, it being Stamina mode and thus almost no knockback being a thing.
 
36 damage with neutral B seems excessive but beyond that nothing seems too crazy tbh. Side B stage 2 is really good at 25 damage, but has a bit of start up to it and most of his normals do too. Imo with down B the melee options kinda suck because why would you pull that out in melee and gamble on it as opposed to arial/smash, projectiles decent but what's really good there is the buffs besides metal. I got oomph and 0 deathed my brother, up throw into a few up airs into a crit Fsmash.
 
His projectiles are really good, however, his moves are kind of laggy - which sucks.

The passive buffs and reflector are definitely his best Down B options. Magic Burst is also like a Final Smash, its crazy.

He looks crazy fun and I can't wait to play him.


Kind of wish he gets a buff to his frame data though.
 
He feels like such a cheese character, like Ridely, Piranha Plant or G&W. Definitively up my alley.

Also I spent like 4 times trying to beat the last DQ spirit with G&W and a shield spirit. Then I switched to Ridley with a grab spirit and I utterly destroyed it in one try. Guess typing really goes a long way.
 
I included reflector as a buff

Magic Burst nice if you're in disadvantage or last stock to get something done really early, but the 0 mana hurts quite a lot.

I don't think he needs a frame data buff, having played him. Sure you can't play him like zamus or fox or joker but you can still zone people out with neutral and side B in tandem with his arials, and characters having weaknesses is fine.

Up B is a nice little out of shield and kinda crazy offstage with edgeguarding. Side B isn't technically a projectile so you can't reflect the huge ranged poke, and neutral B does a ton of damage and kills really early. Between that and buffs I think some start up lag is fine since not everyones gotta be top tier
 
Eh, Magic Burst usually kills so I feel like a stock is more than worth losing all your magic - the only time it isn't when you get hit and lose all your magic anyway, and the fact that Bowser can Tough Guy through it.

I just really want my sword hits to connect with one another like most other sword characters. And you're right, not every character needs to be Top Tier, but I want MY characters to be Top Tier.

And besides, even with a frame data buff I don't think it would make him Top Tier.


What I think would make him Top Tier (or just broken) is a frame data buff AND an alteration in how his Down B works.

Instead of just having Down B just open the command menu, the command menu should only activative if you hold down b like the Monado Arts Wheel does for Shulk.

And after you pick a magic spell - lets say Oomph, it gets set to the down b button until you pick another spell to replace it. Just taping the down b button to use the move you set.


Making this change would give Hero so many combos and follow ups that he would be unstoppable. Not to mention he can spam certain moves to win match ups - like reflector againsts Zoners, or just spam heal.
 
I think not being able to pick down B is sorta the entire point

I also disagree that a frame data buff wouldn't gdt him there. Dude can kill at like 50 with a relatively quick move with a massive hitbox just because you read someone's air Dodge after conditioning them with a different version of the same move. Let's say he had Joker's frame data (he's not as fast as people like Pikachu and fox, but still rather quick and can play rushdown easy). He'd usually have better damage, and even with Arsene in the mix his would be comparable due to magic, he'd have better range via sword instead of knife, he'd be absurdly dificult to approach because on top of all the magic he can just whip out a super fast Ike Nair if someone gets by it, he could easily combo off a simple tilt or throw far into double digits, he could wall people out with Nair and fair and just approach for free by using buffs in tandem, the only thing that joker (generally considered top 3) has decisively over this hypothetical hero is disadvantage state (and Jokers is generally amazing, between gun down and down B) and maybe edgeguarding (though hero up B does some serious work near the ledge, and fast arials gives him what joker already does, so idk). It'd def at least get him into the general area of top tier, it'd be better than Pichu.

His stuff doesn't seem to have much endlag, it seems like it's more noticeable because it's start up. It causes some issues up really close, especially for OOS, but ideally they gotta work to get in therr as well abd maybe the punish characters'll just do well here. High tier's not exactly unviable especially for a dude with heavyweight style damage and kill percents.
 
Having good frame data and being physically strong are great and all - and definitely would solidify Hero as a high tier, but it wouldn't consider Hero top tier for one reason just because of that said buff.


Consistency.

Consistency is key in to do well in Smash, and even with faster frame data - that doesn't change his absurd levels of RNG he has on all of his specials makes him to inconsistent to be a reliable character and thus wouldn't be top tier.

For example, look at Marth. Marth has all of the same moves as Lucina, a top tier, but because of the extremtly small hitboxes and inconsistency in his tippers - he isn't a top tier, there is a big difference between them.

If Hero had better frame data AND a more consistent way of accessing his spells, then he would be a top tier - he might even be broken.
 
He doesnt actually rely on down B that much. I've only really been using it when in advamtagr or opponent's dead to buff and it goes so much better than trying to toherwise. The fireball and lightning spells on their own are great with super high damage for what they are, and his smashes kill at a below average percent even when they don't crit. There's consistent timings for the different levels of the other 3 smashes that it took me a couple mins to get down easily, idk where you're getting rng un "all his specials" from.
 
I honestly don't want any more fighting game characters in smash. Ryu and Ken were one thing because they're so iconic but I'm not really interested in Tekken or anything like that. Except maybe soul caliber.
 
My guess is that it's going to be Terry, just a personal hunch.

But the more people remind me of Metal Slug, the more I want it to be someone like Marco. So that's my biased hope.
 
2hu would be interesting but what about Cadance from crypt of the Necrodancer? She was in a Zelda crossover so she was already recognized by Nintendo.
 
So far, the DLC characters is mainly focused on relatively unconventional playstyles or skills (B&K may contradict this due to little knowledge on their moveset, but meh). Hero has RNG, Joker has Arsen, Piranha Plant has stage control mixed with raw damage.

We should assume the SNK character would follow suit. Terry would likely have a mechanic based on Ergokinesis (maybe something similar to good with enogh energy, weak without it but Down-B recharges it, maybe like Hakkan (oil wrestler guy) from Street Fighter IV. Mai would probably be like Shiek or Greninja but more cannon, and way more glass, but with ranged fire attacks to compensate.
 
Maybe he could bring mechanincs from KoF adjusted to fit into smash? Kinda what Ryu did but not quite on a basic level, maybe the combo system, Super Move System of KoF or Fatal Fury... I dunno.
 
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