Super Smash Discussion 5

[The_real_cal_howard]

Paraglider's in his entrance animation. Link's got the ancient arrows as a final smash. The Spin Attack is a better move due to how it works in BotW. Link can pick up arrows now. He lost the Gale Boomerang.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I mean most Links plays the same in most games anyway. Just editing what isn't in the game and boom it's accurate BoTW Link.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

My dream is for a Digimon to make it in although that is only a 1.5% chance if that.

Waiting for Rex tho.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Rex assisted by Pyra kinda like the Ice Climbers would be neat, I dunno emulating the system of Xenoblade 2?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Paraglider's in his entrance animation. Link's got the ancient arrows as a final smash. The Spin Attack is a better move due to how it works in BotW. Link can pick up arrows now. He lost the Gale Boomerang.

Borderline cosmetic changes.

I meant real differences:

Revali's Gale should have been Link's Up B, which then lets Link glide with the paraglider.

His Down B should have been Daruk's protection. Could have been a counter like move.

His Side B should have been Urbosa's Fury. Similar to Robin's Lighting magic.

And his Neutral B should have Mipha's Grace - which could have been similar to Wii Fit's Deep Breathing in where Link heals a small amount of health and gets a stat buff.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I don't think that changing all of Link's moveset to fit BoTW would be reasonable nor would it really represent the character that well, especially since that Link is still partially a "Composite Link" rather than specifically just BoTW Link.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I don't think that changing all of Link's moveset to fit BoTW would be reasonable nor would it really represent the character that well, especially since that Link is still partially a "Composite Link" rather than specifically just BoTW Link.

I don't see why not? There are three Links in this game and they all play the same - don't people complain about the sameness of the characters?


Chaning things up to better represent their series would be completely reasonable.


And Smash Link stopped being a "Composite Link", the moment he got switched out with a specific Link from a specific game.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Perhaps Adult Link could represent the basics of the character, while Toon Link and Young Link more specific gimmicks from their games?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Perhaps Adult Link could represent the basics of the character, while Toon Link and Young Link more specific gimmicks from their games?

Young Link could of had the Masks from Majora, but I can't really think of anything unique for Toon Link, tbh.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I was more talking about how changing one character this heavily in one game isn't something that has been done before and IIRC something Sakurai deliberately want to avoid (hence why Ganon only gradually gets decloned).

 

[Warren_Valion]

I was more talking about how changing one character this heavily in one game isn't something that has been done before and IIRC something Sakurai deliberately want to avoid (hence why Ganon only gradually gets decloned).

Smash constantly does things that it hasn't done before.


I just get annoyed seeing new characters like Simon Belmont who are such a beautiful homage to Castlevania - and then I look back on to Falcondorf and I just cry at my favorite series not getting that level of care and accurate representation.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Smash breaking its own rules doesn't mean every rule has to be broken.

Not as bad as Pokémon, who's borderline an adaptation of the anime instead of the games.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

How so? Other than the inclusion of Jigglypuff and Lucario being a telepath, I don't see how the anime impacted anything. Even more so given how it's Red and not Ash in Smash.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Pokémon uses their name for their sounds, Jigglypuff is 100% anime, Lucario being pretty much the anime character, Ash Greninja (while yes he's in the game now, he's originally an anime creation), most moves following more their anime depiction rather than their game ones, etc.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Fair enough with the name sounds, but what else would they really use tbh. Besides the ones that already talk and Incineroar (who wouldn't really sound any different) and Zard, you really have no basis on their sounds besides their initial cries, which only go so far.

Only Jigg's inclusion in the first place and debatably Sing come from the anime. Rollout is like its game as JP never uses it in the anime. Pound is just Pound. Rest was completely made up. Everything else is based around its Pokédex.

Only thing Lucario has from the anime is being able to talk. Everything else exists in the games, thou Aura is far less explored. Besides, Lucario'd spam Bone Rush if it were like the anime.

The problem with Ash Greninja is that it's the only part of Greninja that's based around the anime. Remember the story behind Greninja's inclusion in the first place.

 

[XitSign]

I can sympathize with feeling like your series doesn't get the proper care and attention to detail it should in Smash.

-Every FE character uses the same general moveset with only minor tweaks and quirks

-The only ONE out of Five (Seven if you count Echoes) that really changed it up and actually uses the quirks to refrence FE's gameplay (having a durability and resource management playstyle) is considered pretty bad

-People who don't care about the franchise can't even tell them apart because most of the choices are the blue-haired sword lords so they genuinely blur together

-I can't even hold out hope for more unique and interesting FE characters joining smash anymore to change things up because even the HINT of a Fire Emblem character seems to get people's blood boiling before they even see the reveal (the Castlevania trailer and Dragon Quest trailer had a lot of people moaning and groaning because it vaugely looked like it could POSSIBLY be an FE character before Simon/The Hero showed up)

Conclusion: The FE roster sucks. And I'm saying that as a huge fan. There really is little variety, refrences to the actual games are pretty weak most of the time (Some of the costumes are good, and Robin's moveset tries really hard at least), and the community's run out of patience giving my fandom a chance, so even if we do get a really cool, unique FE character who does something compeltely new in the future, they'll probably still stir up the pitchforks and torches.

It's...disapointing. Seven characters to pick from and they barely feel all that special and my fandom gets ragged on for it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

At least Corrin's fully unique (besides having a counter like the rest of them). Also Ike imo is pretty darn unique. I remember back in the Brawl days when I thought he was a Marth clone but that's because I was a stupid kid. Besides Eruption and Shield Breaker needing to charge and a counter, they have no moves in common.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I wouldn't consider Ike or Corrin in the same boat with Marth, Roy, Chrom, and Lucina (and Roy and Chrom have noticeable differences form Marth and Lucina).

And I really like Fire Emblem characters, so I don't mind that much.


Personally, I don't get why people hate Fire Emblem characters, or sword characters for that matter.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

People are upset at FE because of the fact that despite it being a niche series until recently, it has 7 reps, which is more than any series besides the two highest grossing video game franchises of all time. To put it in perspective, it has more reps than Kirby and Donkey Kong combined, and those two have been there since the first game. Yoshi still only has one rep.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's because there are way too many of them and a lot of them feel the same. Like we have borderline 4 Marth clones and still a lot more swordfighters. Plus bias against anything anime-ish and most swordsmen are anime boys.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I mean, there were three generally attractive people since Smash 64 (Link Samus and Captain Falcon). I've heard the bishonen/bishoujo argument before but honestly I found it dumb.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Captain Falcon's more a hunk than a cute Bishonen boy and Samus' a girl. They're not all bishonen swordsmen like Link, Marth, Ike, Corrin, Robin, Roy, etc.

Not agreeing with the argment either btw

 

[XitSign]

Corrin and Ike's specials do some unique things...but they fall back into the same sword-focused 'swish-swish and counter' playstyle.

Everyone brings a sword, does the counter, has a charging move for thier main special, thier recoveries all don't do very much (Ike and Chrom gets the multi-hit at least on Aether, Chrom-icide at least got to be a meme/actual stratagy). Every character has thier quirks...but unless you get technical, it feels like the same song and dance every time. (And the people who are upset don't care about you getting technical, trying to defend differances between the FE characters always starts a heated arguement it seems)

Not a knock if you genuinely like one, or like the tech one has over the other, but it's really disapointing that a similar framework is used for almost all the representation. A lot of great variety and possibilities in FE are completely neglected, and the community's gotten a big hate boner for the fandom because of it.

I actually main Robin, and I have a lot of fun with it don't get me wrong, but as a fan it feels sub-par at the end of the day. Pretty much everyone is a 'Lord with a Sword', other weapons and fighting styles are completely neglected, a lot of characters do follow similar design tropes (admittedly, that's a problem in FE too, at least). To me it's all just...kinda boring.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Which is why I push for Hector ovo

 

[XitSign]

TLDR, unless you play the FE characters, they feel all the same from the outside looking in. And the community is sick of all the sword characters that 'play the same'

I play them all, I'm an FE fan, I know that there are actual differances...but I never hear the end of it. Always complaining, always talking about the wasted roster spots, always ripping on the fandom, it's disheartening.

And, personally, to a degree I to agree with them. I really wish it wasn't always sword lord characters all the time. FE has a lot of classes and character types, I'd really like it if they'd change it up, do someone who doesn't bring a sword, use counter, the stand-still charging move, ect. Maybe a Lance user with a lot of reach and very percise sweet spots, or a brutal axe user who's stupid heavy, or an archer who's pretty much locked to projectiles even for jabs like Megaman.

Just something to better show off and refrence the series, and be really unique, and get people to stop complaining, you know?

 

[XitSign]

Well, you sniped my response, but yeah.

If ANYONE can pull off something like a stupidly heavy, brutal swinging axe user to change up FE characters, Hector would be the boy.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's more of an issue from FE itself, mostly featuring just sword users as its main characters. Smash just follows suit.

At least we get more husbandos, and I don't mind that.

 

[XitSign]

It's probably why Hector and Ephriam both have the push they have, since they're both popular and use differant weapons than most lords...but Smash is so good at thinking outside the box and surprising people, or mixing it up in weird ways, I feel like even with sword lords they could've done more (especially to get complainers to shut up. Community backlash I rank higher than disapointment as a fan, its gotten old to listen to.)

Husbandos are always a good thing though, I won't deny that.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Honestly to me, I don't get the complaint - playing Roy feels quite different than playing Marth, like in the style with how to use the character.

Spacing vs. Agressive CQC play.

Like yeah, there specials are basically all the same, but the Star Fox characters all have similar special moves and I don't hear anyone complain about them - hell, Wolf was a desired character to make a come back.


Honestly, if I had to pick a series I am tired of seeing represented - it's probably Pokemon. And if I had to pick a character type, it would likely be Zoners.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There are like, 3 SF characters though. And since it's such an obscure series now, there is no threat of one coming up all the time.

 

[XitSign]

Honestly, I pointed out the Star Fox thing to a friend who was complaining about FE, cause I noticed it too, but he just danced around the subject.

My best guess is that people don't like the FE has as many characters as it does? Maybe?

Personally, as long as the roster keeps doing interesting things, I don't really care how many characters from one franchise show up. Keep adding Mario, FE, Pokemon, I'll be happy as long as they do something differant and new.

I mean, I'd love to see new franchises and faces too, but as long as there's a new moveset in the mix it's more matchup fun in my opinion.

 

[Warren_Valion]

There are like, 3 SF characters though. And since it's such an obscure series now, there is no threat of one coming up all the time.

And?

Half of the FE characters are completely orginal - the other half are the ones who share the same moveset.


That's 4 verses 3. Not that big a difference.


Nicheness of the series might be one thing, but my argument is based on having a lot of similar characters - and so I don't think that should be taken into consideration.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

4 clones. And while swordfighters other than those 4 might play differently, to the casual viewer it's the same thing.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Honestly, I pointed out the Star Fox thing to a friend who was complaining about FE, cause I noticed it too, but he just danced around the subject.
My best guess is that people don't like the FE has as many characters as it does? Maybe?

Personally, as long as the roster keeps doing interesting things, I don't really care how many characters from one franchise show up. Keep adding Mario, FE, Pokemon, I'll be happy as long as they do something differant and new.

I mean, I'd love to see new franchises and faces too, but as long as there's a new moveset in the mix it's more matchup fun in my opinion.

Saikou was right, people just don't like anime sword boys - my friend, who is an avid hater of all things Japanese and anime, said the same, while also saying "Link's okay though, he doesn't count". So there's that.


Anyway, to change the subject, who DON'T you want to be the remaining DLC?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Eh. I wouldn't put Roy in completely original. As much as I like him, he did start off as a Marth clone and he hasn't been decloned to Luigi levels yet.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

"Anyway, to change the subject, who DON'T you want to be the remaining DLC?"

Steve. **** you Saik.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Eh. I wouldn't put Roy in completely original. As much as I like him, he did start off as a Marth clone and he hasn't been decloned to Luigi levels yet.

I didn't.

Ike, Corrin, and Robin were the ones I said were original

Roy is to Marth, what Falco is to Fox in my eyes. Lucina and Chrom are def clones though, but at least they aren't just a cosmetic difference like Daisy (who should have just been an alt)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Warren Well the problem with Alts is that they can't be different at all except in term of model. Even animations like Taunts would make their hitbox slightly different and thus negates their status as just alts. So making Daisy an Echo instead was imo a better idea.

 

[Warren_Valion]

"Anyway, to change the subject, who DON'T you want to be the remaining DLC?"
Steve. **** you Saik.

Oh facts, Steve is a ******* stupid-ass choice

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I don't want Steve either. I also don't want a 3 Houses character tbh. As much as I love Fire Emblem...