Super Paper Mario Revisions

[The_real_cal_howard]

So I recently played through the majority of the game (I'm on the Count Bleck fight as I'm making this) and with the many many revisions of another series similar to Mario going through the works I figured I should make a thread about one of the best games in the series. This thread will be covering the four main heroes, Bleck, and Dimentio.

Spatial Manipulation
Bleck, Mario, and Dimentio (and Mimi if she ever gets a profile) have the ability to flip between 2-D and 3-D. We listed this on the profiles, but for some odd reason we never listed this as spatial manipulation.

BFR
Same characters, as they can trap you in 2-D or 3-D. Even moreso for Dimentio, who can quite literally blow you to hell.

Pixls
Basically, if the Sonic cast can get Wisps, this shouldn't be any different. All except for maybe Tippi should be optional equipment for them. None of them really have outstanding powers however, unless you count Tippi's info analysis (who shouldn't be optional equipment and more like outside help). Best one would be Barry who's good for attack reflection. And Maybe Slim who can make you so thin that you're essentially intangible. Literally. Omnidirectional unavoidable attacks don't work on those who are affected by Slim.

Count Bleck's Durability
Should probably stay unknown. However, he's protected by a passive forcefield of 2-B durability, as it's based on the Chaos Heart.

Items
The four heroes should get the items in the game as optional equipment. While most of them are just healing, there's a handful of good ones in there, like time stop, Regenerationn, sleep manipulation, AoE freezing, damage reduction, soul capture, etc.

Resistance to Existence Erasure
Applies to the main heroes. It's said that Shaydes (which are ghosts) who fall into the River Twygs have their aftergames ended. The heroes are able to swim down there no problem (Luigi is even forcibly put down there). They're also able to survive in Bleck's castle which is located in the Void, and somehow survived the universal erasure of Sammer's Kingdom.

Minor resistance to mind manipulation
The cast can put on that one sprout that had Dimentio control O Chunks. It's minor for two reasons. One, because it's stated that it lost some of its power and two, Dimentio uses it to control Luigi to become Super Dimentio and in a bad end uses it to control both of the Bros. Still, Tippi is surprised that it still didn't make the heroes turn into what O'Chunks got turned into, which is why I still believe it's mind resistance.

Statistics Amplification
Main heroes and Dimentio. Purely item based for the former, but Dimentio gets 256 times stronger in his personal Dimension D.

Adaptation
The heroes are able to passively get powered up in Dimension D even though it was supposed to only boost Dimentio (granted, Dimentio was counting on that).

Fourth Wall Breaking
Pretty much everyone. Peach does this when she's in a dating sim, I'm pretty sure Bowser does it as well. And a bunch of other people do so too.

Resurrection
This is a rather big one. Extra lives are canon. They're consistently referenced when they go to the Underwhere, and Luigi even says that people run out of extra lives, not a life. People have canonically died from Poison 1-Ups due to working in reverse to how normal 1-Ups do.

Stamina upgrade
The four heroes are able to clear both, Flipside and Flopside's Pit of 100 trials, as well as beat all 100 of Sammer's men one by one. Which would take some insane stamina.

AP boost to Low 2-Cs of the verse
This one's more up to debate. It's stated that there's an opposite side to every universe by Nolrem. (Gawd I hope I linked the right scene). Which is how Flopside exists alongside Flipside. If that's the case, every Low 2-C feat (Bleck's and debatably Rosalina's) could be 2-C by virtue of destroying/resetting the main universe and the flipped version.

Dimentio's AP
Honestly should just scale to the main heroes. He's High 4-C when not Super Dimentio.

And...that is all

 

[Dust_Collector]

Very nice. I agree with pretty much all of this, and with the resurrection and extra lifes stuff does that mean we can add back in Bowsers infinite lives thing from Thousand Year Door since iirc that was removed for extra lives being game mechcanics.

 

[Theuser789]

A question since this is the best place to ask, but isn't it said multiple times that the pure hearts only work when the four heroes of legend( Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi) are togheter? And it was even a plot point since Mario couldn't break Bleck's barrier when fighting him alone, and the Pure Hearts only broke it after Luigi and Co. came to help Mario. So shouldn't this be added as a weakeness?

 

[Wokistan]

• Spatial manip works

• I think dimentio blowing you to hell is just because they well, died

• That's how items work yeah

• BEing powered by 2-B reservoir isn't inherently 2-B but it takes hits from the playable characters anyways so sure

• The Sammer Kingdom thing works for an EE resistance

• Well luigi clearly doesn't resist but the others could have a minor one

• You should probably include a scan for an amp as high as 256x, items are obvious

• Same for adaptation

• 4th wall breaking seems fine

• Just note that the rez isn't unlimited

• How do we know all the Low 2-C feats delete the mirror alongside the one explicitly being erased?

• Base dimentio at High 4-C is fine

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's stated by Queen Jaydes that their games haven't ended when Dimentio blows them up.

Here's the link for the 256x thing

 

[Theuser789]

As you can see in the battle the Pure Hearts only work when Luigi and Co. come to save Mario even though he had all of them.

This is supported by the end of Chapter 2 where this is mentioned (16:03)

 

[Theuser789]

I always thought that everyone in Dimension D gets boosted since they fight O'Chunks there later and he doesn't get one shotted

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait becoming a 2-D character counts as spatial manipulation?

 

[Psychomaster35]

I agree with it all.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Very nice. I agree with pretty much all of this, and with the resurrection and extra lifes stuff does that mean we can add back in Bowsers infinite lives thing from Thousand Year Door since iirc that was removed for extra lives being game mechcanics.

Pretty sure that's the case, yeah.

Also, i agree with OP.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I know Tippi can be considered outside help, but what about Tiptron? Unlike Tippi who is a story vital companion who joins and helps Mario and friends at the start of the game, Tiptron is a buyable replacement you can get after beating the main game. Would that allow Tiptron to be considered optional equipment like the other Pixls or nah?

 

[Buttersamuri]

Hasn't Marios 1ups been canon since the RPGs. I recall that the RPG for normal Mario has also acknowledged there existence

 

[Js250476]

We need to upgrade the casts speed to irrelevant scaling to Bowsers arms.

 

[Phoenix821]

Such thing would only scale to Bowser

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I dust know Tiptron was a thing. That's perfectly acceptable, even moreso than the other Pixls.

 

[Wokistan]

Idk if we can use 256x as literal if it doesn't behave like that

 

[Theuser789]

And it seems like everyone there gets boosted as well for the reasons that I posted in a previous post

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Dimentio boosted O'Chunks himself, shown by him getting twice as big.

 

[Theuser789]

But was it 256 times boost though? His attacks only deal double the normal damage outside of Dimension D, which doesn't make sense if Mario is 256 times stronger than normal, and the boost was via the plant that I forgot being in his head

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wok did address the multiplier being up to question and given my stance on multipliers, I'm inclined to agree with him.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Aren't the main playable characters also immune to the effects of Catch Cards? Would serve as a nice resistance for them if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Right. I knew I forgot something. Resistance to soul manipulation to everyone worth their salt.

 

[GyroNutz]

Maybe Dimentio allowed O'Chunks to get boosted by Dimension D. It's completely under his control after all.

Anyway, I'd give Dimentio a 'likely far higher' if we're rating him High 4-C, since he could be way higher based on rumours and implications about him, and has no problem one-shotting the main cast.

 

[Theuser789]

Except he never states that he allowed him to be amped, based on his dialogue after his first fight everyone gets amped there, which is supported by the O'Chunks thing

 

[GyroNutz]

If everyone gets amped there, then there's nothing going against a 256x amp

 

[Theuser789]

True, but it isn't that useful in a match since the opponent is also amped

 

[GyroNutz]

Theoretically, if he can create a dimension that can amp him by 256x, he can also amp himself 256x without the dimension. But that's neither here nor there, the ability itself is more important than how useful it is in a match.

 

[Theuser789]

A question since this is the best place to ask, but isn't it said multiple times that the pure hearts only work when the four heroes of legend( Mario, Peach, Bowser, Luigi) are togheter? And it was even a plot point since Mario couldn't break Bleck's barrier when fighting him alone, and the Pure Hearts only broke it after Luigi and Co. came to help Mario. So shouldn't this be added as a weakeness?

Since this is related to Super Paper Mario can someone adresse this please

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They would've lost to Super Dimentio then, due to no Luigi.

 

[Theuser789]

Luigi was there though, he was Super Dimentio

 

[Theuser789]

As you can see in the battle the Pure Hearts only work when Luigi and Co. come to save Mario even though he had all of them.

This is supported by the end of Chapter 2 where this is mentioned (16:03)

It's explaneid here as well

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah. He was Super Dimentio. A fusion between Dimentio, the most evil person in the universe, Mr. L, a brainwashed Luigi, and the Chaos Heart. And Dimentio was in charge, at that. Luigi totally wasn't there to be one of the Heroes if what you're saying holds up.

 

[Theuser789]

It's not what I am saying, it's the game, the Pure Hearts only work when the Heroes are reunited, Mario couldn't break the Chaos Heart shield even though he had all pure hearts, only when they came back it worked, Luigi was still there, in a fusion but still there, and Mr.L is Luigi, the Heroes need to all be there for the hearts to work, motivations or being fused doesn't matter

Here 2:56

And here 16:03

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Most of the OP seems fine, though I'm neutral on the 2-C upgrades and the Extra Lives being canon. I also agree Theuser's proposition.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I think it's fine too did u @Dino a message as well?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

I agree with this.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Most of these seem legit, but I'll address the iffy ones. First of all, the 2-B barrier seems to apply more for his Chaos Heart key rather than his base key. However, he did survive the destruction of his own universe being destroyed, so I think his base durability should scale to his striking strength.

Dimension D seems to strengthen everyone who's inside it, not just Dimentio. So it's more so a power of the dimension rather than any particular character. But it is still a dimension Dimentio created, so statistics amplification for him is fine. But he's also using it on his own opponents.

The Nolrem statement seems a bit too vague, and you linked the beginning of the video. And as for Base Dimentio's tier, the problem is that he's actually far superior to Mario and the rest of the cast. And whenever you do fight him, he simply toys with you. Also, he did supposedly survive the destruction of Count Bleck's universe so he should be comparable to base Count Bleck if anything.

I'm neutral on the extra lives being canon, but should note that it only applies if the have 1-Up Shrooms on hand. And actually, I think it was agreed to be 4th Wall Awareness rather than literally breaking the 4th wall. I agree with everything else though.

 

[FDrybob]

Extra Lives being canon is contradicted by the characters getting literally killed by Dimentio and sent to the equivalent of the afterlife

Dimentio didn't kill the heroes. He made it appear like he did, but as was said before, Queen Jaydes notes that Mario (and presumably the rest of the heroes) weren't killed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Alright, just beat the game.

Yeah, I @'ed Dino.

About User's proposition about the weakness, it's contradicted all throughout the Super Dimentio fight. Bleck himself says that they're powered by love. The Pure Hearts are restored in power when the four are in a totally different dimension than the Pure Hearts are. They get their power back through the camaraderie between Bleck and his minions, and it's Tippi that uses the power to counter Super Dimentio. The four (well...three) are empowered by it is all. Finally, the Pure Hearts destroy the Void through the marriage of Tippi and Bleck, not the four being united. It's just the prophecy stating that the four would use the Pure Hearts to save the world. So it's not a weakness.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it's not a weakness, but rather than the Pure Hearts are powered by love. Honestly, Mario and Peach or even Mario and Luigi alone are more than capable of using them for obvious reasons.