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Super Holy Water... again (Dragon Ball)

Nullflowerblush said:
Hey, sorry, everybody! I lied!




Turns out, Goku only doubled in power, not tripled.
Super Exciting Guide rules, not mine.

This means that Post-Korin Training Goku only scales to 8.11345143 Tons, or Large Building level+.
That means that Pilaf Saga Goku only scales to 0.811345143 Tons.
Click to expand...

I remembered another source that claimed it tripled, though. Hmmmmm, I'll have to check on that
 
Going to say I disagree since the original manga should be prioritized over one guide if they contradict each other (and they do, a 2x increase isn't manyfold), along with other sources such as Daizenshuu 2, 4 and 7 also mentioning that it's a several times increase.

Don't know about you, but the original source material and 3 guides > 1 guide.
 
Last edited:
"Many", "several", and "multiple" are of indeterminate numerical value. The default assumption is >3, but the Super Exciting Guide clearly clarifies that Goku doubled his abilities.
 
And, as Cipher_db said:
The cases that are probably of more interest to the thread author are the uses of bai (倍), and I'm not aware what, if any, the different connotations would be between nanbai and suubai. Both literally imply something is another thing many/several times over, but again, I'm not sure that's a literal mathematical statement for strength (then again, maybe for the purposes of power debates, it is; they are electing to literally say "___ times stronger" rather than just "stronger"). My educated guess from their characters, most common translations, and use in the quotes above would be that nanbai implies a more pronounced difference, as it isn't a case of just "several" times stronger, but a more hyperbolic, "Who knows? It's a lot!" Its single use in the cases above is also reserved for an enormous power-up for Goku, and an instance where his power may have literally multiplied, while the other two are simply indications that someone's better than another character or their own previous strength.
Click to expand...
 
Maizesoup said:
Going to rock the boat and go against a DB downgrade for once and say I disagree since the original manga should be prioritized over one guide if they contradict each other (and they do, a 2x increase isn't manyfold), along with other sources such as Daizenshuu 2, 4 and 7 also mentioning that it's a several times increase.

Don't know about you, but the original source material and 3 guides > 1 guide.
Click to expand...
i disagree for these reasons above, I think we should prioritize the statement with 4 sources to back it up instead of 1
 
Nullflowerblush said:
"Many", "several", and "multiple" are of indeterminate numerical value. The default assumption is >3, but the Super Exciting Guide clearly clarifies that Goku doubled his abilities.
Click to expand...
They’re not entirely indeterminate, as “several” is explicitly defined as “more than two, but less than many,” which makes both “several” and “many” greater than two
 
It's not just statements though. Goku got stomped to near death by Tao Pai Pai, but a mere 2x increase was enough to 180 that stomp?
 
Jason_Courne said:
It's not just statements though. Goku got stomped to near death by Tao Pai Pai, but a mere 2x increase was enough to 180 that stomp?
Click to expand...
It's not unheard of, similar stomps happened in the Saiyan and Namek Sagas.

I agree with the OP.
 
Jason_Courne said:
It's not just statements though. Goku got stomped to near death by Tao Pai Pai, but a mere 2x increase was enough to 180 that stomp?
Click to expand...
The difference between Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x3 turned a stomp match around in Goku's favor, Vegeta regularly stomped foes within mere decimals of his Power Level throughout the Namek Saga, Frieza increasing his Power Level from 530,000 to over 1,000,000 was enough for him to be treated as an impossible god, Goku had his Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha blocked by 50% Frieza with a single hand and then proceeded to defeat Frieza at 100% as a Super Saiyan, etc.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The difference between Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x3 turned a stomp match around in Goku's favor, Vegeta regularly stomped foes within mere decimals of his Power Level throughout the Namek Saga, Frieza increasing his Power Level from 530,000 to over 1,000,000 was enough for him to be treated as an impossible god, Goku had his Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha blocked by 50% Frieza with a single hand and then proceeded to defeat Frieza at 100% as a Super Saiyan, etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah, people need to get out of their heads the idea that stomps are only possible with a ridiculous difference in power. In Dragon Ball they can wreck other characters with a mere x2 increase, some times with even less.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The difference between Kaio-ken and Kaio-ken x3 turned a stomp match around in Goku's favor, Vegeta regularly stomped foes within mere decimals of his Power Level throughout the Namek Saga, Frieza increasing his Power Level from 530,000 to over 1,000,000 was enough for him to be treated as an impossible god, Goku had his Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha blocked by 50% Frieza with a single hand and then proceeded to defeat Frieza at 100% as a Super Saiyan, etc.
Click to expand...
Goku had a base power level of 9000 8000. A casual Vegeta had a power level of 16,000, in max power he was even stronger, and his galick gun had a PL of 27,000
The Kaioken multipliers in this scenario make sense due to the explicit power level gap

Not to mention Vegeta didn't stomp Goku to the extent of Tao Pai Pai
 
Vizer04 said:
They're not
Click to expand...
I believe Kaioken is just a general term that varies between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken x20. One can't just say Kaioken Goku, as opposed to Kaioken x2 Goku, Kaioken x3 Goku, Kaioken x4 Goku, ect.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I believe Kaioken is just a general term that varies between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken x20. One can't just say Kaioken Goku, as opposed to Kaioken x2 Goku, Kaioken x3 Goku, Kaioken x4 Goku, ect.
Click to expand...
I guess that's true but Goku couldn't go beyond Kaio-ken x2 at the time (at least, not without wrecking his own body)
 
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