Sung Jin-Woo is star?

[Dooyo]

"Inside of the castle was…. a ruined city. Quite unexpectedly, it was a field-type dungeon.''What is this place? Is this Seoul?'''If everyone in Seoul died and a hundred years had passed by, would the city look like this?
Within this lifeless, ash-grey cityscape, only the lonesome street lights flickered as if they were having a seizure.

'I never expected it to be a field-type dungeon, though….'

Not only that, a dungeon created to look like the metropolis of Seoul.

This was the kind of scale that utterly disallowed any comparison to other instant dungeons that were based around a special location such as subway stations or department stores."

"Jin-Woo took a look at his surroundings. It was still a ruined city.

'I can't tell which city this floor is based on anymore.'

Every floor was modelled off on a different city.

However, the higher he climbed, the state of destruction the city was in got worse and worse, and on this 27th floor, he found it hard to tell whether this place used to be a city or not."

Here are some citations in the LN. In the LN, the surroundings are always described as that of a city on each floors. Perhaps we should make a LN version and a Webcomic version for this verse.

Those floor are just replicate of cities or worlds ( and Jin woo being in the replicate of the Seoul of those worlds )? Now I am confused because I didn't read the early part of the novel. Because in the manhwa, it seems to be portrayed as worlds. Jin woo doesn't describe the sky, just what he recognized and familiar with it, the manhwa actually show us the surrounding in details

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

In the LN, the 100 floors are only cities, in the Webcomic, the 100 floors are cities with sun and moon.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Why you refuse the presence of a mere Sun inside those worlds created by the Shadow Monarch when he also can control and access to an infinite world of eternal rest which is basically the realm of the dead?

Actually, he has only that much control in the realm of death. Ashborn explained that in this realm, Jin-Woo could do whatever he wanted because it is his true domain. Jin-Woo also explained in the after stories that he was able to draw more power (= not all the power) from the realm of death when he was in the chaos world because it was a realm of nothingness similar to the realm of death.

 

[Elizhaa]

Perhaps we should make a LN version and a Webcomic version for this verse.

• I am not against this proposal if they are more stories difference in the LN and manga.

 

[Dooyo]

Perhaps we should make a LN version and a Webcomic version for this verse.

• I am not against this proposal if they are more stories difference in the LN and manga.

So they are separate and not linked together? So I was arguing with the basis of the manhwa and not the novel this entire time? Aren't both of them canon? Or they are completely separated

 

[Dooyo]

Why you refuse the presence of a mere Sun inside those worlds created by the Shadow Monarch when he also can control and access to an infinite world of eternal rest which is basically the realm of the dead?

Actually, he has only that much control in the realm of death. Ashborn explained that in this realm, Jin-Woo could do whatever he wanted because it is his true domain. Jin-Woo also explained in the after stories that he was able to draw more power (= not all the power) from the realm of death when he was in the chaos world because it was a realm of nothingness similar to the realm of death.

What is the size of that realm of the death and his Origin? Was it created by the Shadow Monarch or just bestowed to him by the Absolute being who is the creator instead?

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

@Dooyo

Seems like it

@Elizhaa

To be honest, I've begun reading the LN when i've finished to read the manwha so I don't know if there is much differences. The only difference I've noticed the interaction betweens the two Monarchs on Jeju Island with the humans.

I think Ricsi is more capable than me to say if there is more differences between the LN and Webcomic.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

What is the size of that realm of the death and his Origin? Was it created by the Shadow Monarch or just bestowed to him by the Absolute being who is the creator instead?

He created a perfect mimic of reality in there, so that would probably be 3-A, but scaling his physicals or his abilities outside the void to what he is inside is obviously wrong. He saw making a giant shadow armor ala' mecha as an impressive manifestation of the void in the real world, after all.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

What is the size of that realm of the death and his Origin? Was it created by the Shadow Monarch or just bestowed to him by the Absolute being who is the creator instead?

It was not precised.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Elizhaa

To be honest, I've begun reading the LN when i've finished to read the manwha so I don't know if there is much differences. The only difference I've noticed the interaction betweens the two Monarchs on Jeju Island with the humans.

I think Ricsi is more capable than me to say if there is more differences between the LN and Webcomic.

Not sure if they are major enough to be seperated.

Almost all changes are either because limitations of the media (character descriptions don't fully reflect the manwha characters, and some effects like the giant demon shaking the earth with every step isn't shown) or simply artistic changes (even the manwha doesn't actually focus on the sun or moon besides it being a mood setter, since every level of the dungeon is a city after the supposed destruction of the world).

 

[AKM sama]

Reading the LN excerpt has convinced me further. Going by that alone, there is literally zero indication of them being anything more than just cities. So I think I'm against this upgrade.

As for a different version for the webcomic, I think the only difference would be one of the stats, seems kind of pointless without much difference.

 

[Dooyo]

Reading the LN excerpt has convinced me further. Going by that alone, there is literally zero indication of them being anything more than just cities. So I think I'm against this upgrade.
As for a different version for the webcomic, I think the only difference would be one of the stats, seems kind of pointless without much difference.

There are huge difference in the webcomic because there are " more ' than just cities present there which has a whole new implications as you saw in this thread.

So yeah, the webcomic version seems to be far stronger when it comes to stats.

 

[Dooyo]

@Elizhaa

To be honest, I've begun reading the LN when i've finished to read the manwha so I don't know if there is much differences. The only difference I've noticed the interaction betweens the two Monarchs on Jeju Island with the humans.

I think Ricsi is more capable than me to say if there is more differences between the LN and Webcomic.

Not sure if they are major enough to be seperated.
Almost all changes are either because limitations of the media (character descriptions don't fully reflect the manwha characters, and some effects like the giant demon shaking the earth with every step isn't shown) or simply artistic changes (even the manwha doesn't actually focus on the sun or moon besides it being a mood setter, since every level of the dungeon is a city after the supposed destruction of the world).

You can clearly see a Sun and a moon in the horizon on the manhwa version tho, that is clear in that case.

LN version is different tho.

Hence why it is better to make two different version when it comes to feats.

 

[Dooyo]

Reading the LN excerpt has convinced me further. Going by that alone, there is literally zero indication of them being anything more than just cities. So I think I'm against this upgrade.
As for a different version for the webcomic, I think the only difference would be one of the stats, seems kind of pointless without much difference.

Well if you refuse to upgrade the LN version, then how about upgrading the speed department? since that is from the LN

https://imgur.com/a/AYR3lf8

Not to mention all the hax and stats that I quoted above for the LN version

 

[AKM sama]

The only difference would be going from planet level to star level, right? That doesn't sound like a big difference at all. Although, that particular issue is not of importance in this thread.

I think we've reached an agreement here already.

 

[Elizhaa]

If there are not much differences or critical story differences like with powers then I think there is no need to make LN and Webcomic profile/key, also.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The only differences between the mediums are very slight and irrelevant overall so making a separate profile is pointless beyond bigger numbers.

 

[Dooyo]

The only difference would be going from planet level to star level, right? That doesn't sound like a big difference at all. Although, that particular issue is not of importance in this thread.
I think we've reached an agreement here already.

It does because the difference from planet to star is beyond massive but anyway, there is a Universal feat in said verse.

Not really, you forgot to comment on the speed department, attack potency and durability isn't the only thing in a profile and since you like information on the novel only, I gave it to you for the speed department.

Update the speed from his profile and makes another profile with manhwa version in the title since the story and feats differ tremedously.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Not really, you forgot to comment on the speed department, attack potency and durability isn't the only thing in a profile and since you like information on the novel only, I gave it to you for the speed department.

Update the speed from his profile and makes another profile with manhwa version in the title since the story and feats differ tremedously.

That is a different subject, the OP talks about the 100 pocket realities feat. You should make another thread for that.

 

[Dooyo]

The only differences between the mediums are very slight and irrelevant overall so making a separate profile is pointless beyond bigger numbers.

This forum is vsbattle, it is supposed to care about bigger numbers when said numbers are present in a medium and absent in the other hence why it is better to highlight the difference when talking about feats, not plot.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It doesn't care when one medium is just the primary but with some added details that have absolutely no bearing on the story. The profile is for the Novel and the Comic doesn't have enough to differentiate from it to warrant another profile that will be nigh identical aside from his tier.

 

[Dooyo]

Not really, you forgot to comment on the speed department, attack potency and durability isn't the only thing in a profile and since you like information on the novel only, I gave it to you for the speed department.

Update the speed from his profile and makes another profile with manhwa version in the title since the story and feats differ tremedously.

That is a different subject, the OP talks about the 100 pocket realities feat. You should make another thread for that.

Yeah already done now for the speed upgrade discussion, give it a look.

Also could you makes a thread detailed all the abilities and resistance of Jin woo during the entire novel from start to finish, particulary at EOS.

 

[Dooyo]

It doesn't care when one medium is just the primary but with some added details that have absolutely no bearing on the story. The profile is for the Novel and the Comic doesn't have enough to differentiate from it to warrant another profile that will be nigh identical aside from his tier.

But those details are crucial for an update as it indirect implies that there was more than just cities created in that pocket dimension ( manhwa is the best medium when it comes to the landscape description and details in the surrounding ) but whatever, I get your point but I am not sure if you get where I am coming from.

 

[Dooyo]

It doesn't care when one medium is just the primary but with some added details that have absolutely no bearing on the story. The profile is for the Novel and the Comic doesn't have enough to differentiate from it to warrant another profile that will be nigh identical aside from his tier.

Can you check the new thread I made? Since you see the Novel as the premium medium.

 

[Dooyo]

The only difference would be going from planet level to star level, right? That doesn't sound like a big difference at all. Although, that particular issue is not of importance in this thread.
I think we've reached an agreement here already.

Can you check the new thread please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So what's the summary of the debate here on both sides?

 

[Dooyo]

So what's the summary of the debate here on both sides?

One side seems to think that the pocket dimensions were only said to be the recreation of the city without detailing the surrounding and just giving the MC's impression of the surrounding.

While the other side seems to think that since the pocket dimensions have shown the presence of moon and sun in the manhwa with full view of the surrounding of the area which upgrading the tier from Planet level to Star level.

Basically that is just that, which side seems to makes sense according to you?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If they're creating a pocket reality, it's typically the default that it would include the creation of the sun and moon.

 

[Dooyo]

If they're creating a pocket reality, it's typically the default that it would include the creation of the sun and moon.

Exactly hence why the manhwa portrayed with those which wasn't included in the Novel BECAUSE it was the MC's perpective of describing what he recognized in his surroundings which basically is the replication of his own city in his real world. The Manhwa show the city AND THE SURROUNDING which including of course the moon and the Sun on the sky.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The porpuse of the dungeon was exactly to showcase each city one after another destroyed, to make him understand what will happen if he fails to stop the sovereigns.

He isn't just commenting on how "hey, I know this city". He goes out of his way to be shocked that "the whole city was recreated? This sure is a big dungeon", and this happens in the manwha too.

The fact that the mechanics of the dungeon aknowlgde each city (levels) as a territory certain demon families govern is also against the idea that each place is a planet, because they would spread outside of the cities if that were the case.

 

[Dooyo]

The porpuse of the dungeon was exactly to showcase each city one after another destroyed, to make him understand what will happen if he fails to stop the sovereigns.
He isn't just commenting on how "hey, I know this city". He goes out of his way to be shocked that "the whole city was recreated? This sure is a big dungeon", and this happens in the manwha too.

The fact that the mechanics of the dungeon aknowlgde each city (levels) as a territory certain demon families govern is also against the idea that each place is a planet, because they would spread outside of the cities if that were the case.

The manhwa clearly show the present of the moon in on stage and the sun setting ( another time ) clearly while he is merely describing what he see and recognize and not everything.

They are just in random cities in those worlds where they gouvern yeah.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes, the manwha does show those. I'm saying that it's purely for artistic reasons, and that it completely ignores the intent of what was written for it.

No... I am saying each level is just the city, because the demons would have no need to just stay there otherwise.

 

[Dooyo]

Yes, the manwha does show those. I'm saying that it's purely for artistic reasons, and that it completely ignores the intent of what was written for it.
No... I am saying each level is just the city, because the demons would have no need to just stay there otherwise.

That is your opinion on why it is shown on the manhwa, I can also say that the city is for pure artistic reason as well. Not an argument, you can't deny their presence in the manhwa, it is as simple as that.

They are forced to stay there and protect that city like NPC in case that you forgot, so it is not like they have a choice anyway.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No, you can't. The city is shown because the source material describes the city. And I am saying their presence in the manwha simply doesn't matter and is not enough to get such a massive upgrade over.

And yet that still doesn't cover the fact that Sung specifically goes out of his way to describe the dungeon being city wide as being completely beyond the other dungeons he has been at.

'I never expected it to be a field-type dungeon, though….'

Not only that, a dungeon created to look like the metropolis of Seoul.

This was the kind of scale that utterly disallowed any comparison to other instant dungeons that were based around a special location such as subway stations or department stores."

 

[Dooyo]

No, you can't. The city is shown because the source material describes the city. And I am saying their presence in the manwha simply doesn't matter and is not enough to get such a massive upgrade over.
And yet that still doesn't cover the fact that Sung specifically goes out of his way to describe the dungeon being city wide as being completely beyond the other dungeons he has been at.

'I never expected it to be a field-type dungeon, though….'

Not only that, a dungeon created to look like the metropolis of Seoul.

This was the kind of scale that utterly disallowed any comparison to other instant dungeons that were based around a special location such as subway stations or department stores."

Again you are talking based on the novel stance of the description, I am refering to the showing of the manhwa which the clear image of the Sun and another realm, the moon is clearly present.

You basically deny that for some reason which is fine but at least, don't say that they aren't present in the manhwa because that is a clear lie.

The manhwa showcased that plus more of the surrondings and what lie in the horizon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I said in that paragraph that no, a supplementary canon work should not make the characters billions of times stronger. And you might have forgot, but even in the Manwha Sung mentions the dungeon recreating all of Seul in awe.

I the manwha doesn't matter here. Its definitly not getting profiles for it with how little is changed from Canon, and it's the novels that are primary Canon so the manwha really doesn't matter that much.

 

[Dooyo]

I said in that paragraph that no, a supplementary canon work should not make the characters billions of times stronger. And you might have forgot, but even in the Manwha Sung mentions the dungeon recreating all of Seul in awe.
I the manwha doesn't matter here. Its definitly not getting profiles for it with how little is changed from Canon, and it's the novels that are primary Canon so the manwha really doesn't matter that much.

It is a supplementary canon that give another perpective of the events, sure, I get it already that the novel is what matter here at the end of the days.

Like he cared about the Sun and the sky anyway, his expressions doesn't change the visuals in the manhwa but like you said, it is irrelevant here on this forum.

 

[AKM sama]

If that is the case and recreation of only the city was the main focus that was portrayed as something impressive, then I think we should stick with the primary canon here. The manga depicting the sun or moon seems to be contradicting it.

Reading the LN excerpt has convinced me further. Going by that alone, there is literally zero indication of them being anything more than just cities. So I think I'm against this upgrade.

Regarding the OP, I think we all were on board with this.

 

[Dooyo]

If that is the case and recreation of only the city was the main focus that was portrayed as something impressive, then I think we should stick with the primary canon here. The manga depicting the sun or moon seems to be contradicting it.

Reading the LN excerpt has convinced me further. Going by that alone, there is literally zero indication of them being anything more than just cities. So I think I'm against this upgrade.

Regarding the OP, I think we all were on board with this.

Not " all ", there are two sides and DDM seems to be on board as well

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I meant, if it's very specific on stating it's only City sized, then it would be City level with the skies simply being illustrations. But if there's no statements regarding the exact size, and it has celestial objects, the standard is that we do assume those are real celestial bodies.