Sung Jin-Woo is star?

[Antvasima]

You can ask more staff members to help out here if you wish.

 

[Dooyo]

So you are just going to ignore what I said?
It is not mentioned in the novel, each pocket reality is referred to as a city made to look like a world conquered by the demons, and even then it could very well have been just created in the void which does not scale to his stats outside the void.

Fine then, it seems that the only low 4C will pass with you.

 

[Dooyo]

This a revision concerning the Shadow Monarch and every characters that scale to him. The system created a dungeon with the power of the Shadow Monarch that has 100 floors and each of these floors are a recreation of Seoul. One of these recreation contain a moo and another of these recreation contain a su. That would make the Shadow Monarch 4-C
For the moment, i support the upgrade and Ricsi seems to remain neutral.

I agree with the 4C as there is nothing subtantial against it honestly but what about his speed? Do you have anything worth mentioning in the novel for any impressive speed feat or do you need to wait the manhwa for it?

 

[Dooyo]

You can ask more staff members to help out here if you wish.

What is your verdict now?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not know.

@Ricsi & Elizhaa

What do you think that we should do?

 

[Elizhaa]

If the pocket realm with a sun is too controversial, then, I am fine with High 4-C being disregarded. Without a calculation, I think 5-A than Low 4-C is better option since more than more than 1,300 Earths would fit inside Jupiter so I think creating a pocket realm with 100 realms would be more appropiate tier at 5-A.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Actually, it is not really controversial. There is a Universe creation feat by the Absolute Being, and this same character was overpowered and killed by the Rulers, who are comparable to the Monarchs. Creating multiple pocket dimensions with a sun and a moon isn't that impressive compared to that.

 

[Dooyo]

If the pocket realm with a sun is too controversial, then, I am fine with High 4-C being disregarded.
Without a calculation, I think 5-A than Low 4-C is better option since more than more than 1,300 Earths would fit inside Jupiter so I think creating a pocket realm with 100 realms would be more appropiate tier at 5-A.

About his speed feat, upon reading the Novel, I finally find the feat where Jin woo outpaced the breath of destruction which is basically pure light and said to move at the speed of light.

It was an attack from the Monarch of Destruction himself.

Jin woo outspeed it and saved Igris from existantial erasure.

https://imgur.com/a/AYR3lf8

What do you think?

Also, the Shadow Monarch on top of creating those realms, created and has aboslute control over the 'Territory of Eternal Rest' which is an infinite sized world of darkness.

Creating a Sun is nothing in comparaison.

 

[Dooyo]

Actually, it is not really controversial. There is a Universe creation feat by the Absolute Being, and this same character was overpowered and killed by the Rulers, who are comparable to the Monarchs. Creating multiple pocket dimensions with a sun and a moon isn't that impressive compared to that.

Isn't Ashborn himself originally a Ruler and later on became the Shadow Monarch and the Ruler of the death?

 

[AstralKing7]

Actually, it is not really controversial. There is a Universe creation feat by the Absolute Being, and this same character was overpowered and killed by the Rulers, who are comparable to the Monarchs. Creating multiple pocket dimensions with a sun and a moon isn't that impressive compared to that.

This. The high 4C feat isn't controversial at all. Are there anymore knowledgeable staff members on the verse page?

 

[Antvasima]

So you are just going to ignore what I said?

It is not mentioned in the novel, each pocket reality is referred to as a city made to look like a world conquered by the demons, and even then it could very well have been just created in the void which does not scale to his stats outside the void.

It seems like Ricsi has rejected this then.

 

[Dooyo]

Actually, it is not really controversial. There is a Universe creation feat by the Absolute Being, and this same character was overpowered and killed by the Rulers, who are comparable to the Monarchs. Creating multiple pocket dimensions with a sun and a moon isn't that impressive compared to that.

This. The high 4C feat isn't controversial at all. Are there anymore knowledgeable staff members on the verse page?

Not only that but his profile is far from being complete.

EOS Jin woo has mind manipulation (Can erase, grant as well as alter memories),flight via Authority of the Ruler, power bestowal ( can grant powers to others via his mana ), Pocket reality manipulation (Has full control over 'Territory of Eternal Rest' which is an infinite sized world of darkness), forcefield (Can make an invisible shield via Ruler's Authority), lightning manipulation (Via Demon King's Longsword), telepathy (Can communicate with his Shadow Soldiers mentally) and telepathy erasure via Tusk skill, poison manipulation (Uses poison of Manticore on his blades, which is strong enough to rot away the flesh from a simple and innocuous contact), death manipulation (Can summon power of death to transform into a humongous Shadow Giant), Spatial manipulation (Aura of Kamish's Wrath utterly distorts the surrounding space) and dimentional travel.

Resistance to existantial erasure ( tanked the breath of destruction ), time manipulation ( Monarchs and Rulers are unactive by the time reset and conserve their memory ). status effect inducement.

There are far more which I forget that hasn't being added into his profile from the Novel, I need to read more.

 

[Dooyo]

So you are just going to ignore what I said?

It is not mentioned in the novel, each pocket reality is referred to as a city made to look like a world conquered by the demons, and even then it could very well have been just created in the void which does not scale to his stats outside the void.

It seems like Ricsi has rejected this then.

Can you add all the abilities left from the Novel into his profile on top of changing his tier?

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

This "void" Ricsi is talking about is certainly the Chaos World (AKA The Gap between Dimensions). Why would the Pocket Reality be created in the Chaos World when it is the Monarchs Territory and every one of them want to kill him while he is vulnerable? The Architect wouldn't have taken such a risk.

As for the LN, Sung Jin-Woo described what was the most outstanding in his perspective (the creation of Seoul), but he didn't either described in details everything he saw. The Webcomic just completed what he didn't described in the Novel.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

My problem was still the focus of the description in the novel being of the recreation of the city after being devastated by the forces of the demons, being a foreshadowing for Sung.

I would argue that the way some things are rapresented withing the comic are different.

However, if we want to take this as legit regardless, sure. God tiers are very wonky in tiering. Like, the ice elf sovereign was being matched by S Class hunter Sung, but it was stated that if his attacks hit then even Sovereign Sung would have died to it. 0

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

Not only that but his profile is far from being complete.

EOS Jin woo has mind manipulation (Can erase, grant as well as alter memories),flight via Authority of the Ruler, power bestowal ( can grant powers to others via his mana ), Pocket reality manipulation (Has full control over 'Territory of Eternal Rest' which is an infinite sized world of darkness), forcefield (Can make an invisible shield via Ruler's Authority), lightning manipulation (Via Demon King's Longsword), telepathy (Can communicate with his Shadow Soldiers mentally) and telepathy erasure via Tusk skill, poison manipulation (Uses poison of Manticore on his blades, which is strong enough to rot away the flesh from a simple and innocuous contact), death manipulation (Can summon power of death to transform into a humongous Shadow Giant), Spatial manipulation (Aura of Kamish's Wrath utterly distorts the surrounding space) and dimentional travel.

Resistance to existantial erasure ( tanked the breath of destruction ), time manipulation ( Monarchs and Rulers are unactive by the time reset and conserve their memory ). status effect inducement.

There are far more which I forget that hasn't being added into his profile from the Novel, I need to read more.

Well, I wanted to do a CRT about Jin-Woo's tier and abilities by the End of Series. I think we should first conclude the subject of this thread before doing these revisions.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

However, if we want to take this as legit regardless, sure. God tiers are very wonky in tiering. Like, the ice elf sovereign was being matched by S Class hunter Sung, but it was stated that if his attacks hit then even Sovereign Sung would have died to it. 0

Well, about that, if you're talking about the ice elf sovereign attacking him while Sung was locating the Beast Monarch, we can consider that Sung was lowering his guard and thus, vulnerable at the moment. This is a recurrent cliche in some animes.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not really, it was just when he got the power up and trashed the dude.

He attacked him, and narrator states the icicles would have one-shot, but he was too fast and easily dodged them. The fact that he actually dodged them would say that he was well aware and focused on it.

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

This is PIS then. I mean, he tanked attacks from the Dragon Emperor in his human form.

 

[Dooyo]

Not only that but his profile is far from being complete.

EOS Jin woo has mind manipulation (Can erase, grant as well as alter memories),flight via Authority of the Ruler, power bestowal ( can grant powers to others via his mana ), Pocket reality manipulation (Has full control over 'Territory of Eternal Rest' which is an infinite sized world of darkness), forcefield (Can make an invisible shield via Ruler's Authority), lightning manipulation (Via Demon King's Longsword), telepathy (Can communicate with his Shadow Soldiers mentally) and telepathy erasure via Tusk skill, poison manipulation (Uses poison of Manticore on his blades, which is strong enough to rot away the flesh from a simple and innocuous contact), death manipulation (Can summon power of death to transform into a humongous Shadow Giant), Spatial manipulation (Aura of Kamish's Wrath utterly distorts the surrounding space) and dimentional travel.

Resistance to existantial erasure ( tanked the breath of destruction ), time manipulation ( Monarchs and Rulers are unactive by the time reset and conserve their memory ). status effect inducement.

There are far more which I forget that hasn't being added into his profile from the Novel, I need to read more.

Well, I wanted to do a CRT about Jin-Woo's tier and abilities by the End of Series. I think we should first conclude the subject of this thread before doing these revisions.

Okay fine, regarding the topic of this thread, I still don't see where there is a problem about EOS Jin woo with the complete power of the Shadow Monarch and being far stronger after the time reset being 4C, he should be even higher if we argue that he is comparable to the Supreme Being that created the Universe.

 

[Dooyo]

This is PIS then. I mean, he tanked attacks from the Dragon Emperor in his human form.

So when we will start to complete his profile? Not only tier but several of his abilities aren't being added.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask a few VS Battles Staff members to comment here, preferably discussion moderators and administrators.

 

[Dooyo]

You can ask a few VS Battles Staff members to comment here, preferably discussion moderators and administrators.

Can you do it for me? Seriously I can't even if I wanted to.

 

[Antvasima]

I am already extremely overworked, but you can ask a few of the following staff members to help out with giving input here if you wish:

SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, Andytrenom, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokista, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Super Saiyan God Julia, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, Sir Ovens, The Calaca, Zark2099, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSa, DarkGrath, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

 

[Dooyo]

I am already extremely overworked, but you can ask a few of the following staff members to help out with giving input here if you wish:
SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, Andytrenom, DarkDragonMedeus, AKM sama, Wokista, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Super Saiyan God Julia, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, Sir Ovens, The Calaca, Zark2099, ByAsura, GyroNutz, ShiroyashaGinSa, DarkGrath, The Wright Way, Ricsi-viragosi, Ogbunabali, Moritzva

I sent some message in the wall, linking it to this thread and waiting their answer.

Should I message all of them? I did message at least 6 of them.

 

[Antvasima]

6 of them should probably be enough. Thanks.

 

[AKM sama]

I'll be honest I have literally no knowledge of the context surrounding this verse, but from reading the thread it seems like there are two main arguments:

One side seems to think that the pocket dimensions were only said to be the recreation of the city in the primary canon, i.e. the novel.

While the other side seems to think that since the pocket dimensions have shown the presence of moon and sun in the manga (which I believe is not the primary canon?), it must be that big, hence upgrading the tier from Planet level to Star level.

Am I missing some context or is that it?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that is it, but I do not remember so well.

 

[AKM sama]

Okay. I'll wait for either Ricsi or TFOG for some more clarification. (Also moved this thread to content revision board.)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes, that is correct.

 

[Elizhaa]

If this is the crux of the arguments and the novel is the primary canon, then it trumps the manga regarding showing of feats; I think Risci's points on it make sense.

 

[AKM sama]

If that is the case and recreation of only the city was the main focus that was portrayed as something impressive, then I think we should stick with the primary canon here. The manga depicting the sun or moon seems to be contradicting it.

Because if we were to assume otherwise, they wouldn't really have stressed on the city. They would have made it clear that a whole another solar system was being recreated. Or could it be that all the recreations of the city are sharing the same pre-existing sun and moon?

 

[Dooyo]

If this is the crux of the arguments and the novel is the primary canon, then it trumps the manga regarding showing of feats; I think Risci's points on it make sense.

But the manhwa doesn't contradict the novel, it just give extra details of the surrounding.

Even if you disregard it ( which makes no sense in the context of the story ), it is still at least low 4C for making 100 worlds.

 

[Elizhaa]

More or less, yes. I don't think they were stated to share the same pre-existing sun and moon.

 

[Elizhaa]

Even if you disregard it ( which makes no sense in the context of the story ), it is still at least low 4C for making 100 worlds.

I reply earlier on the 100 worlds feat; it not would necessarly be a Low 4-C feat and is more likely to be 5-A feat as I explained here since 100 worlds could easily fit inside the area of the size of Jupiter.

 

[AKM sama]

But aren't the 100 "worlds" just 100 cities as Ricsi has pointed out above? We'll also have to take into consideration that they all might not have been created at once, it could also be one by one over time.

 

[Dooyo]

But aren't the 100 "worlds" just 100 cities as Ricsi has pointed out above? We'll also have to take into consideration that they all might not have been created at once, it could also be one by one over time.

They are stated to be worlds; replicate worlds of Jinwoo to be precise which is as real, and not cities, it is just where Jin woo is when he is sent into those worlds. It was simply stated to be created by the system which used a fragment of the power of the Shadow Monarch, no time frame was stated implying that it is instant otherwise a timeframe will be stated Same way the Absolute Being created the Universe, there isn't a quote where it is said that he created it over time, simply create it

 

[Dooyo]

Even if you disregard it ( which makes no sense in the context of the story ), it is still at least low 4C for making 100 worlds.

I reply earlier on the 100 worlds feat; it not would necessarly be a Low 4-C feat and is more likely to be 5-A feat as I explained here since 100 worlds could easily fit inside the area of the size of Jupiter.

Why you refuse the presence of a mere Sun inside those worlds created by the Shadow Monarch when he also can control and access to an infinite world of eternal rest which is basically the realm of the dead?

And as the Omnicient guy stated, the absolute being literally created the Universe in the verse, and the Shadow being is close to his power and strength as he literally killed all the Monarch by himself at the end of the series, same Monarchs that the Rulers couldn't and same Rulers who managed to destroy the Absolute being.

The showing isn't that impressive based on those implications here and scaling alone.

 

[Dooyo]

More or less, yes. I don't think they were stated to share the same pre-existing sun and moon.

Also the speed feat in the novel

https://imgur.com/a/AYR3lf8

 

[The_Foolish_Omniscient_Guy]

"Inside of the castle was…. a ruined city. Quite unexpectedly, it was a field-type dungeon.

'What is this place? Is this Seoul?'

If everyone in Seoul died and a hundred years had passed by, would the city look like this?

Within this lifeless, ash-grey cityscape, only the lonesome street lights flickered as if they were having a seizure.

'I never expected it to be a field-type dungeon, though….'

Not only that, a dungeon created to look like the metropolis of Seoul.

This was the kind of scale that utterly disallowed any comparison to other instant dungeons that were based around a special location such as subway stations or department stores."

"Jin-Woo took a look at his surroundings. It was still a ruined city.

'I can't tell which city this floor is based on anymore.'

Every floor was modelled off on a different city.

However, the higher he climbed, the state of destruction the city was in got worse and worse, and on this 27th floor, he found it hard to tell whether this place used to be a city or not."

Here are some citations in the LN. In the LN, the surroundings are always described as that of a city on each floors. Perhaps we should make a LN version and a Webcomic version for this verse.