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Sub-Zero takes on a fire-wielding martial artist (not named Scorpion)

Schnee One said:
Juji FRA
Click to expand...
Tbh this match is a who shoots first one, I'm not sure if Juji duplicating or amping counts if he won't start with it, and that's counting SZ just standing there and letting himself get hit

Plus we have no idea who's going to use what they need to win first
 
Juji simply duplicating is significantly easier then shooting ab ice ball and Juji deciding to not stand there and take the hit.

Also, AP
 
Does AP and dura matter when Sub-Zero has absolute zero temperatures? I don't think so.

Plus we don't even know what does Juji start with, duplicating gets taken care of with AoE ice blast.
 
Plus we don't what SZ starts with too, so it's only a matter of who draws their win button out first.
 
It does when Juji can simply side step the Absolute Zero projectile

Juji can

1. Hit him a couple times and call it a day

2. Duplicate, either one hits him a couple times and calls it a day.

3. Side Step the Beam

It's clear who holds the advantage
 
First, it's not just a projectile that SZ has. He has a move where ice comes from below and an ice wave that acts as an AoE.

Hitting him is going to be hard when he freezes himself and passes it to Juji, then taps him since he's already frozen on an atomic level. He can make the air around him cold enough to freeze things that come into contact such as projectiles and Juji.

Duplicate? Let me remind you again that Sub-Zero has an AoE move that can deal with the clones.
 
Not only am I 90% site that move doesn't generate Absolute Zero but the AoE is certainly not big enough to kill 15 dupes at once before he gets casually hit a couple times

Said AoE gets tanked due to Dura
 
Dude, it's stated that the Elder Sub-Zero's ice reaches temperatures of absolute zero, so he's not tanking that. All of his moves have these properties. Kuai Liang scales to this because he's equal to him as they trained together but eventually surpassed Bi-Han.

Their range is equal and both are limited in fighting space because of the set location.
 
And why are you assuming he'd duplicate when he won't start with it because he has no set character? Same applies to Sub-Zero, which is why I voted inconclusive, there are many ways this can go.
 
Because I find it far more likely that he duplicates and either one of them taps Sub Zero then Sub Zero hitting him with an ice ball or other attack.

This is even assuming Sub Zeros AoE kills all the clones which I highly doubt considering the sheer amount created.

Its simple

Is it more likely for Sub Zero to hit all 15 clones? And Juji himself? Or for any one of them to hit Sub Zero?

And if he doesn't duplicate immediately, why would Sub Zero pulling out his trump card be the end when it's perfectly dodgeable?
 
I have to repeat myself again, MrKing said there's no way telling of what Juji will start with so please do not bring up duplication or anything that isn't martial arts.
 
Schnee One said:
Because I find it far more likely that he duplicates and either one of them taps Sub Zero then Sub Zero hitting him with an ice ball or other attack.
Click to expand...
Kinda sounds like saying Bill will use his very potent hax right away even though it's not in character
 
Kredory said:
I have to repeat myself again, MrKing said there's no way telling of what Juji will start with so please do not bring up duplication or anything that isn't martial arts.
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Just because a character doesn't immediately lead with an ability does not mean he won't utilize it in a fight.

Plus, I can say the exact same thing for Sub Zero, in which case if neither pull out their trump cards, Juji hits him in the chest and the strength gap makes him cave.
 
Kinda sounds like saying Bill will use his very potent hax right away even though it's not in character

Even though Bill is frequently plagued with CIS in his own verse

In this case, neither use their trump cards and thus Juji hits him once and calls it a day.

See where that logic gets Sub Zero?
 
I looked at the AP justification and this guy scales to people who can no sell attacks farther than what Sub-Zero is capable of.

And I don't get why both of you are not calling stomp for being unable to dent this guy
 
Kredory said:
Dude, it's stated that the Elder Sub-Zero's ice reaches temperatures of absolute zero, so he's not tanking that. All of his moves have these properties. Kuai Liang scales to this because he's equal to him as they trained together but eventually surpassed Bi-Han.
Their range is equal and both are limited in fighting space because of the set location.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure this Sub-Zero has AZ but never uses it, ever. Hell you can't even force him to do so,
 
Xtasyamphetamine said:
I looked at the AP justification and this guy scales to people who can no sell attacks farther than what Sub-Zero is capable of.

And I don't get why both of you are not calling stomp for being unable to dent this guy
Click to expand...
Because you and Kredory kept arguing Sub Zero had a chance.

Plus Absolute Zero
 
I need to debunk myself :(

I said those hours before I read through some old CRTs. I have to put "Likely Absolute Zero" because I can't just say "Kuai is more skilled than Bi-Han, therefore he should have this too" so it's possible he can't replicate Bi-Han's moves where he insta shatters with a blast of air in MK:Mythologies.

Meanwhile Bi-Han is explicitly stated to have absolute zero, so the match goes like this:

HvpZ6y9
 
IDK how that would ruin the matchup, as Juji is still susceptible to being frozen alive unless I'm mistaken. It's just to less of an absurd degree.
 
He no sold attacks from people vastly above Sub-Zero, reminds me of Earthshaker vs Diane

Which means he breaks out of it everytime he gets frozen, simple.
 
But Sub-zero doesn't just trap you in ice, he lowers the temperature of your body to the point where the water in there freezes.

Hanji having superior durability won't save him from that.
 
Xtasyamphetamine said:
Freeze shattering does not ignore durability, mind you.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but having your body frozen solid does, unless I'm mistaken. Juji would be incapacitated at the least.
 
I'm not sure what our consensus was for heat manip negating dura, but I don't see how durability correlates to resisting the water in your body being frozen.
 
If it freezes through it should be able to. That's the sort of thing that can bring down bridges and stuff because of water expanding while frozen and being durable wouldn't change how water reacts to low temperature.
 
I'm against the notion saying Sub-Zero won't use AZ

So if Schnee thinks that Juji is going to use duplication, Sub-Zero can just AZ the air around him to protect himself. The number of clones won't matter, they'll just be frozen on an atomic level, simple. Plus he's no stranger to being outnumbered as he fought against his corrupted Lin Kuei members.

Add the fact that he's much more skilled here as he is grandmaster of an entire clan at this point, again this is just me not knowing Juji's feats.
 
Experience-wise, Sub-Zero is probably superior. The best thing you can say about Juji was that he trained in and eventually mastered vague martial arts until the day he died, and was a talented mafia/yakuza sweeper in his living years. (That's what we get for having so few cutscenes)

I do want to point out that Juji does have ranged attacks, and would probably at least try to use them if his clones get frozen. He's can throw fireballs, use flamethrower esque attacks and even generate a small AoE tornado of fire. (Kutaba: Burning Cyclone)

His swords are also a pair of machine pistols, and in at least two of the bare few cutscenes we see, he does use those.
 
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