Strongest One Punch Man General Discussion Thread v17

[The_Causality]

>The point is that Orochi didn't necessarily sense Saitama through some kind of energy-sensing ability, but just felt the base shake like every other character.

I thought it was simple but well, let's just tell this in an easy way

• Orochi likeky sensed The blast = didn't moved at all
• Orochi sensed the impact of the punch = poop on is underpants

The Conclusion is simple, you understand now?

>if you want to claim that Orochi could sense the energy from both Saitama and Child Emperor's attack, then you'd need to prove it.

He can sense energy so he could sense the blast's energy

He immediatly moved after sensing the impact of the punch

Conclusion: i can affirmate that the punch was stronger than the blast.

Anyway, i think people need to concider more the story than feats scaling, there is way of telling stories to show the treat, make a setup ect. this isn't something "feat based" but more how to interpret the situation.

 

[Damage3245]

"Orochi likely sensed the blast" <-- This is the speculative part of your argument. There is no reason for us to make this assumption.

Given that we can see the destruction caused by Saitama's punch against Rover, why not simply calc the destructiveness of it than attempting to scale it to a more impressive feat?

 

[The_Causality]

"Orochi likely sensed the blast" <-- This is the speculative part of your argument. There is no reason for us to make this assumption.
Given that we can see the destruction caused by Saitama's punch against Rover, why not simply calc the destructiveness of it than attempting to scale it to a more impressive feat?

But this how to argue when you have multiples ellements scattered in a story you find them and check if they could give something legit, actually i can perfectly use this assumption to setup my argumentation without problems.

Maybe, but since this punch might be stronger than the another feat , i argue about it.

 

[JackJoyce]

Orochi called for help from Rover while fighting Saitama, he was even amazed to find out Saitama could beat him. Psykos was planning to hold Tatsumaki with the help from Rover. Rover is stronger than Phoenix Man by context. Even though he doesn't have feats to back it up

 

[Therefir]

Orochi doesn't even know about Phoenix Man's full potential, or that he could resurrect. I agree with Damage that no one should scale from Phoenix Man without a concrete reason.

Rather than assuming that Orochi felt the attack and simply did nothing about it, it's more logical to assume that he didn't feel the attack at all.

 

[The_Causality]

I only argued about Rover's durability that should scale above Emperor Nova, nothing else, and i don"t agree with the "Orochi didn't sensed at all" as explained above but contextually, it's more logical for the Big boss to move where the strongest opponent is.

Althought it can be argued that Phoenix man could scale to flash since when he saw the two Dragon level flash defeated, he thought of being on his guard against him

Anyway, i don't think anything will be done before the forum move so let's keep the discussion in a later date.

 

[Ryukama]

I honestly don't agree with scaling Phoenix Man to Millenium Emperor Nova. He specifically has a hax to absorb energy blasts. And not scaling all of his stats to this special ability leads to a lot less convoluted scaling (Such as Phoenix Man supposedly being stronger than every cadre put together yet also being worried about Flashy due to beating the ninjas). However if that's what everyone else has agreed upon then sure.

 

[Damage3245]

I also don't agree with Phoenix Man scaling fully to the Millenium Emperor Nova.

 

[JackJoyce]

I honestly don't agree with scaling Phoenix Man to Millenium Emperor Nova. He specifically has a hax to absorb energy blasts. And not scaling all of his stats to this special ability leads to a lot less convoluted scaling (Such as Phoenix Man supposedly being stronger than every cadre put together yet also being worried about Flashy due to beating the ninjas). However if that's what everyone else has agreed upon then sure.

He isn't even stronger than Elder Centipede according to his own implications

 

[Kin201]

But If PM shouldnt fully scale to EN, then how much he should scale from that ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree 100% that Saitama's Casual Punch against Rover was stronger than the Millennium Emperor Nova. All the signs point to it:

• 1) The only people shown reacting to the Millennium Emperor Nova were the heroes on the surface, and that was solely because they were right next to the beam when it burst through the surface
• 2) Meanwhile, everyone was shown reacting to Saitama's punch. The heroes on the surface (who expressed greater awe / shock at that then with the Millennium Emperor Nova), the S-Class Heroes, the Monsters, etc.
• 3) Orochi, who can explicitly sense energies, deemed Saitama's punch enough of a threat that he ought to personally interfere, directly ignoring Gyoro Gyoro's orders. If the Millennium Emperor Nova was more powerful than Saitama's punch, he would have gone after Child Emperor

Overall, there is nothing to argue on the contrary. Saitama's Casual Punch was stronger than Brave Giant's Ultimate Attack. And it makes perfect sense given how his other, similarly casual attacks can obliterate some of the strongest dragons in the series like Vaccine Man (Who had just transformed, when even his Base Form was deemed to be the strongest monster the Hero Association had ever encountered), and with how his Normal Punches can obliterate the meteor and seriously stun the likes of Boros and AG.

 

[Damage3245]

> 1) The only people shown reacting to the Millennium Emperor Nova were the heroes on the surface, and that was solely because they were right next to the beam when it burst through the surface

Doesn't that suggest the opposite of what you're implying? If nobody else in the base reacted to the Millenium Emperor Nova, then there isn't any reason to assume that they could sense it, including Orochi.

This doesn't have anything to do with it being weaker, but in how the energy is directed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And also, please don't bring up the argument of collateral damage. Even if that mattered in the slightest, Brave Giant's Millennium Emperor Nova was an energy beam that stretched through kilometers, while Saitama's punch was a blunt impact blow concentrated on Rover, who absorbed most of the impact.

Similarly, if you think that Collateral Damage is the only way to measure strength in this series, then you'd have to argue that Vaccine Man's energy blasts carry more powerful than Saitama's Normal Punch against Boros, since it did zero collateral damage whatsoever. And I don't think I need to explain to you why that is obviously not the case.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Doesn't that suggest the opposite of what you're implying? If nobody else in the base reacted to the Millenium Emperor Nova, then there isn't any reason to assume that they could sense it, including Orochi."

No, it just means it wasn't noteworthy of being reacted to by other people at all.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Going with @Damage3245 here. Saitama's punch had no control or focus. It was just wide AoE damage. The Emperor Nova was a focused energy attack that didn't cause any side effects unlike Orochi's flame blast. No one even knew that PM evolved to that level anyways, so the scaling is to someone they just don't know.

As for PM, if we aren't scaling him directly to the Emperor Nova then it should be "At lest 7-B, up to High 7-A with energy absorption" or something along those lines for his durability.

 

[Damage3245]

> No, it just means it wasn't noteworthy of being reacted to by other people at all.

That's one speculative option, sure.

But I don't see any reason to assume that.

> As for PM, if we aren't scaling him directly to the Emperor Nova then it should be something like "At lest 7-B, up to High 7-A with energy absorption" or something along those lines for his durability.

That sounds okay to me.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think it's obvious that Phoenix Man only scales to the attack after he absorbs it and gets the half-demonic look.

 

[The_Causality]

Eh finally i'am not the only one who think that Rover should scale above Emperor Nova, i agree with Matt btw.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Matt has always tried to scale Orochi and Rover to the Emperor Nova. Though I never got the former since he outright has a much better feat.

 

[Kin201]

At lest 7-B, up to High 7-A with energy absorption.

Why he should get the key "At least 7-B". There is nothing linking him to be 7-B at all, Am i wrong ?

Edit: Never mind, He should be much stronger than his First Resurrection, seems fair to me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hellfire Flame/Gale Wind -> Brave Giant -> PM Form 1 -> PM Form 2

Guess you're right though. 7-B is probably better than At least 7-B if we're giving him that rating.

 

[NikHelton]

EC's Nova feat is generally very overrated, as it scales from the average size of clouds rather than from the beam. In this case, we simply get that the diameter of the beam above the clouds ranges from 2 to 3.5 km.

 

[The_Causality]

The beam Size varies a lot, in one panel he has width of at least 30 meters and in other shots, the beam has a size of multiple city block who have residential buildings, no mention that in the last shot, the beam size increase little by little (here too)

Using the clouds isn't a bad choice when the sizes varies like that.

 

[Kin201]

Suiryui should still be Low 7-B due to this, and this and maybe this, too, Not to mention, He was heavily injured before Bakuzan stomped him shortly after. There's no need to downgrade him to Low 7-C. He should be at least strong as Garou, maybe stronger imo.

 

[Antvasima]

Somebody brought up an issue here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Blizzard_of_Hell_(Fubuki)

What do you think?

 

[Qawsedf234]

She should have no rating for striking strength. She doesn't punch.

 

[IvoryAS]

But she already doesn't have one.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah she hasn't had one since 2017. So seems weird to mention.

 

[Damage3245]

I guess the question is, does this:

> Defended against an attack from Overgrown Rover that would have damaged both Bang and Bomb

Count as an AP feat?

 

[IvoryAS]

I don't believe so. Sounds like it wouldn't be good for anything other than a durability feat...

Unless that's just how ONE designs espers. I don't remeber.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think the reason behind it is that esper power goes into both defense and offense. So whatever she blocks she can output. Or something.

 

[Damage3245]

Which doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? If I create a brick wall with my powers which can tank an attack, that doesn't mean by brick wall can attack with equal energy if I throw it at someone.

 

[USklaverei]

But she doesn't attack with a brick wall and she doesn't defend herself :c

 

[Duedate8898]

Isn't it standard here that if you use the same pool of energy to make something as you do to attack that you're AP should scale? That's why we allow those that create pocket dimensions and the such to get the tiers they get even if they don't directly every have an attack that shows that much powerl

 

[Tetsucabrah]

@Nik when are you gonna post that Genos calc?

 

[Antvasima]

So Fubuki should remain as she is then?

 

[Damage3245]

I think there ought to be some supporting evidence. Just because you can create something that has a certain durability value does not mean you can create something with equal AP value.

 

[Kin201]

There are people agreed and disgreed. But it seems Yes.

 

[Kin201]

Damage3245
I think she should, just like Tatsumaki and Psykos, why she shouldnt like them just because she hasnt shown it yet?

 

[Kin201]

If you create an barrier that it is Low 7-B+, then. I dont see a reason why your AP shouldnt scale. That is how AP works, right ???