STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[ByAsura]

Looking at the new chapter again, Garou demolishing Darkshine's ego really the impact of a light slap.

 

[Ourosboros]

Because Darkshine still is incredibly powerful, if you go around one-shotting dragon level threats and "steamrolling" someone like Black Sperm, it's hard not to get arrogant. Once Darkshine really takes damage and gets physically broken by a superior opponent like Awakened Garou, we'll see where he really is.

 

[PsychicCipher-2]

Anyways, here's a sick colouring of Garou's new form, whatever it is called.

 

[Six_fold_god]

I have a question about outliers. If several characters A, which are much lower in tier, repeatedly withstand the attacks of characters B . if C character kills a d character much more easily, does it count as a difference greater than the difference between A and B? Because author more likely to think of it as a much larger gap if it's written by the same author.

I know linear scaling doesn't work.
But, I am curious about how the power rating(ex mid,high dragon) in the fiction is work before the tier is applied.

(I'm actually asking about One Punch Man in wiki.

Because this is also the case with opm.)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I have a question about outliers. If several characters A, which are much lower in tier, repeatedly withstand the attacks of characters B . if C character kills a d character much more easily, does it count as a difference greater than the difference between A and B? Because author more likely to think of it as a much larger gap if it's written by the same author.

I'm not sure I understand this tho.

But basically, if something is not consistent with a character's general feats or how the character is portrayed, then it is an outlier.

 

[DarthSpiderr]

25.8

Seemingly yes

Perhaps this is due to lack of sleep, but I do not understand what 0.874 is.

 

[Six_fold_god]

I'm not sure I understand this tho.

But basically, if something is not consistent with a character's general feats or how the character is portrayed, then it is an outlier.

Um, I mean, it's obviously outrageous for B~A-class heroes to withstand demon-level melee attacks, but it's pretty repetitive. Ex: Yes Garou was exhausted, But he had to work hard to take them down is true. In any case, it is obviously outlier. but when see his repetition, he recognizes that it is an outlier, but is more likely to he think of the keep using outlier because is acceptable gap.

Because if over certain level of gap, there was no such case at all.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Um, I mean, it's obviously outrageous for B~A-class heroes to withstand demon-level melee attacks, but it's pretty repetitive. Ex: Yes Garou was exhausted, But he had to work hard to take them down is true. In any case, it is obviously outlier. but when see his repetition, he recognizes that it is an outlier, but is more likely to think of the outlier as an acceptable gap.

Are you referring to the whole Garou vs low tier class scenes? Because theme harming should all be outliers, that and Garou is likely holding back as to not to kill them, as he does not kill humans

 

[DarthSpiderr]

These Garou threads got me feeling sad about the state of OPM dragon scaling. Be aware that this is a demonstration of what scaling couldbe but we have no feats superior to JDA at this point, it's definitely not a serious recommendation for how we should do things since it would be calc stacking.

Consider the following:
We scale the Garou that fought Genos roughly to JDA, so that's 1.22 megatons for peak hero hunter Garou.

Let's say the Garou that fought Royal Ripper and Bug God was still 1.22 megatons- Garou still couldn't scratch Bug God, so let's say Bug God's durability is 5 times stronger than Garou's/Royal Ripper's AP. That would be 6.1 megatons.

Then Bug God transforms and get's pulverized by a casual shot from Darkshine. Literally pulverized- you should in theory have to be many, many times stronger than someone's durability to turn them into a fine goo like that. Compare what it takes to fragment rock vs pulverizing it- it's a 26X difference. But let's lowball the difference at 7.5X, enough to one-shot a normal human being (but certainly not pulverize them). That would be 45.75 megatons for Darkshine's casual AP.

And that's casual, so let's say it's half regular power (although it's more likely 1/8th, Darkshine clearly put in more effort against Garou and that still was far from his 100%) and put the difference at 2X. That would be 91.5 megatons for Darkshine's 100%.

Now current Garou matched that power in his spiral mode. And after matching this, Garou has transformed yet again- presumably becoming drastically more powerful. Let's lowball that difference at 2X. That would be 183 megatons for current Garou's AP.

In this scaling chain, there's so many steps between HHG Garou and current Garou, yet we still entertain the possibility that current Garou could be low 7-B to some degree, even though he's stronger than someone who was strong enough to casually pulverize someone who was far too durable for his 1.22 megatons form. By our scaling, a fight between Hero Hunter Garou and current Garou wouldn't be a total stomp from an AP perspective using the low 7-B end- even though we know that current Garou could very casually pulverize the Garou that fought Royal Ripper (base bug god was more durable than this Garou).

Have you forgotten that before the battle with Darkshine, God changed into his stronger form (He saw that he could not even scratch Shine in his base, but was sure that he would defeat him in the next form).

 

[Six_fold_god]

Are you referring to the whole Garou vs low tier class scenes? Because theme harming should all be outliers, that and Garou is likely holding back as to not to kill them, as he does not kill humans

Yes because it is the most representative case of an outlier of opm

 

[Kin201]

Garou being harmed and struggling against the Death Gatling's group is outlier or PIS, you can pick one. Even Garou himself implied that he would've speedblitzed and one-shot the hell out of them instantly like he did against Tanktop Master Army if it weren't for his fever, wounds, in his weakened state. Therefore, scaling them to him doesn't make sense.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Not only that, but this very same form could fight against G4 Genos, who is on par with Tank Top Master, and he could survive an entire beatdown from bang and bomb. Yea, the low tiers fighting him is one big PIS.

I also doubt Garou became hundreds of times weaker just by being sick

 

[DarthSpiderr]

Are you referring to the whole Garou vs low tier class scenes? Because theme harming should all be outliers, that and Garou is likely holding back as to not to kill them, as he does not kill humans

There is a theory that Garou's body has a weakness for sharp attacks. His body is dense enough on the inside for the sword to go a couple of centimeters into it (as is the case with arrows or the sword of the Royal Ripper), but not dense enough on the outside, so even A-class heroes can make holes in it.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

That's only a theory

Also I think you mean piercing damage.

 

[Six_fold_god]

I definitely know that's an outlier. But the point is, over certain level of gap. Outlier doesn't happen. For example, there are no A-class heros that survive dragons attack. even if they survive dsk or the 100 -eyed octopus attack.

 

[Kin201]

Piercing/Slashing attacks are very deadly and effective compared to blunt force attacks. I think characters that have shown to have incredibly tough skin such as Darkshine, Elder Centipede and Gouketsu are probably the only ones who can supposedly tank those attacks from weaklings with no issue.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Piercing damage is just one of those really inconsistent thing that we kinda just have deal with.

 

[Kin201]

Have you forgotten that before the battle with Darkshine, God changed into his stronger form (He saw that he could not even scratch Shine in his base, but was sure that he would defeat him in the next form).

What does this mean btw? What God is there?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I think he's referring to Bug God

 

[Kin201]

For example, there are no A-class heros that survive dragons attack. even if they survive dsk or the 100 -eyed octopus attack.

A bunch of weakling heroes including several A-Class ones survived Nyan's attacks.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Isn't Nyan the type to toy with his victims?

 

[Kin201]

Isn't Nyan the type to toy with his victims?

I think he only wanted to toy with Waganma. He actually didn't care much about other heroes and abandoned them to pursue the kid. They actually survived his attacks, that's outlier or PIS even if he surpressed.

Edit: Nevermind, I just reread the chapter, he actually wanted to toy with them too.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

In this scaling chain, there's so many steps between HHG Garou and current Garou, yet we still entertain the possibility that current Garou could be low 7-B to some degree, even though he's stronger than someone who was strong enough to casually pulverize someone who was far too durable for his 1.22 megatons form. By our scaling, a fight between Hero Hunter Garou and current Garou wouldn't be a total stomp from an AP perspective using the low 7-B end- even though we know that current Garou could very casually pulverize the Garou that fought Royal Ripper (base bug god was more durable than this Garou).

This is part of why I think it's necessary to get the Genos calc redone. Let's say it gets like 1.8 Megatons. Here's a more conservative(number wise) scaling chain.
Puri Puri Prisoner curbstomps a DSK tier monster (who would scale to that) at less than half power. Making full power Puri >(1.8*2 MT)
A sleeping Garou cubstomps a full power Puri Puri prisoner. Darkshine while not powered up at all is able to handle this sleepwalking feral Garou with ease, likely scaling him above 4 megatons.
The Awoken(lol) Garou in turn handles base Darkshine with ease himself prompting Darkshine to say the difference in muscle power and coordination between asleep and awake is drastic.
The S class heroes that Darkshine said would stomp this Garou can scale to 5-6 megatons likely. And then it goes onto full power Darkshine and evolving Garou etc etc.

Of course there are other ways for this scaling chain to go. We could use Murata's statement about how Darkshine would destroy the DSK tier monster with a light touch and make something out of that.
Or we could go the route of Full power Darkshine>>Carnage Mode>>>>>>>base Carnage Kabuto taking a deep breathe>>Genos blast
Or the route of Casual Base Darkshine>>>Transformed Bug God>Base Bug God's durability>Royal Ripper's AP being redirected at double power>Red Garou>>TTM>>G4 Genos>>>>Bos Genos.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Does durability actually drop when someone gets sick in fiction?

Also what is PIS?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Does durability actually drop when someone gets sick in fiction?

Also what is PIS?

Depends. I doubt it's the case in One Punch Man tho

Plot Induced Stupidity

 

[ByAsura]

Because Darkshine still is incredibly powerful, if you go around one-shotting dragon level threats and "steamrolling" someone like Black Sperm, it's hard not to get arrogant. Once Darkshine really takes damage and gets physically broken by a superior opponent like Awakened Garou, we'll see where he really is.

What I meant is that the original treats it far different. It actually breaks his confidence and will to fight for a much longer time.

 

[DarthSpiderr]

That's only a theory

Also I think you mean piercing damage.

Yes, that's what I meant. Stupid translator.

In fact, it would be worthwhile for the VSB to make some page on piercing attacks. Many characters have high toughness against normal attacks, but not piercing attacks. Characters such as Spider-Man, Atomic Samurai or Sonic are definitely not bulletproof and a regular knife will not break on their body due to its strength. But they will withstand just strong blows.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

Wow, I'm getting notifications for this thread again lol

 

[DarthSpiderr]

I want to do one calculation, but for that I need to know the size of Orochi's clenched fist. Which scan should I use for this? Garou's head is different compared to Orochi's fist in these scans. The result from this will vary greatly.

It seems to me that it is better to use the first scan. Because this moment takes up the whole scan, not a small frame. This means that Murata drew this moment in more detail and accurately than on the second scan, where it occupies one small frame. Also, the fist is drawn in more detail there.

 

[LordTracer]

In fact, it would be worthwhile for the VSB to make some page on piercing attacks.

Look at the Attack Potency page. There’s a note about piercing damage, which says:

When used with an equal amount of energy, sharp and spiky weapons tend to be able to overcome higher durability than blunt ones. However, this can not be considered proper Durability Negation. If a sharp or pointy weapon is shown to have kinetic energy on the level of a certain tier, it can contribute towards the character receiving an unquantified "possibly higher" rating.

 

[DarthSpiderr]

What I'm talking about is that many characters have a piercing damage weakness. For example, they can withstand, for example, piercing attacks of the wall level at a maximum, but they can withstand 8-B attacks.

 

[Ourosboros]

I want to do one calculation, but for that I need to know the size of Orochi's clenched fist. Which scan should I use for this? Garou's head is different compared to Orochi's fist in these scans. The result from this will vary greatly.

It seems to me that it is better to use the first scan. Because this moment takes up the whole scan, not a small frame. This means that Murata drew this moment in more detail and accurately than on the second scan, where it occupies one small frame. Also, the fist is drawn in more detail there.

I would say use the first scan and find the size using Garou's head

 

[DarthSpiderr]

I would say use the first scan and find the size using Garou's head

Okay, thank you.

 

[GyroNutz]

What I'm talking about is that many characters have a piercing damage weakness. For example, they can withstand, for example, piercing attacks of the wall level at a maximum, but they can withstand 8-B attacks.

It's more of a verse thing. Some verses overrate piercing damage compared to others.

 

[Ourosboros]

Huh... so I calced Ultimate Jet Drive Straight (jet nice guy's ultimate move) and got 0.05 tons of tnt for it. If this calc gets accepted, I think we'll have middle of the road 9-A scaling for most of the a-class, since a bunch of guys scale to Wild Horn who also has a 9-A feat. So right now, we'll have...

c-class: varies from at least street level to wall level (mumen rider),

B-class: mostly wall level with a few small building level (Mizuki, Needlestar, Jet Nice Guy)

A-class: mostly small building level, one large building level (spring mustachio) and a couple block levels (Stinger, Snek, Lightning Max, Great Philosopher)

 

[Ourosboros]

Spring Mustachio will of course scale far higher with Tomboy.

 

[Ourosboros]

Ultimate Jet Drive straight feat here;

Jet Drive Straight

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DarthSpiderr]

Does anyone have a link to prove that the human eye has a perception of 1/220 second?

 

[DarthSpiderr]

What do you think? This should increase Orochi's AP, his third form height and speed (Although she should be MHS+ through scale anyway).

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

What do you think? This should increase Orochi's AP, his third form height and speed (Although she should be MHS+ through scale anyway).

6-B AND MHS+ OROCHI HOLY ****. Even if the High 6-C is chosen tho, it's still a good upgrade.