STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[Kachon123]

The actual destruction would also scale to his AP.

Why?

And why would that scale to the ship?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I'm not part of that conversation.
I'm just calling Ziller for whipping out some bullshit.

zoinks

 

[Tural2004]

Cool, so the OVA is just wrong because he himself admits frequently in the manga that that Saitama is way out of his league.

Yes, in strength. I am not trying to upgrade Bang's physicals though. He would still have High 7-C durability, striking strength, AP, etc. I am suggesting something along the lines of "up to High 6-C with WSRSF."

A variation of glass cannon?

As for defeating 200 times, what does this even mean? Like in a fight, in a competition?

In a fight. He says Saitama wasn't paying attention to his surroundings and he is naive. Then follows up by saying he could defeat him about 200 times in the span of his shopping time according to his mental simulations.

Firstly, didn't he admit it wouldn't have worked?

What wouldn't have worked? Trying to fight against him? He doesn't admit anything of sorts as far as I remember. When Saitama tries to fight instead, he says that has no intention to fight to the death over a game.

Secondly, even Human Garou's WSRF could deflect attacks capable of ******* him up.

Exactly my point. If Garou's incomplete WSRSF can do that, then why Bang can't deflect an attack far above his league?

Garou is referring to the technique itself, not actually Bang's own WSRF.

Then that's one weird way to word it. Especially considering he was using the very same technique.

Bang himself personally deflected all of DS' attacks,

I am aware of that sequence but it was in a sparring match. It is unlikely that either was taking it seriously. Darkshine already states that he didn't take any damage and was mostly the aggressor. And since Bang was initially holding back against a monster like Melzalgald, I can't see him taking a spar so seriously. He also has amps such as Abandonment and Awakening Breath, to boot.

DS implies that the only reason Garou couldn't was because he didn't have that level of experience.

Following this line of thinking alongside the previous one creates a contradiction. If Garou thinks the WSRSF technique isn't strong enough to deflect Darkshine, then how come Bang's version can? It would only work if Garou was talking about a level of WSRSF above his own level but below Bang's which doesn't make any sense. (Or he was specifically talking about his own WSRSF which is even weirder way to put it)

I think we should just discard Darkshine's take entirely considering he doesn't know a thing about martial arts. Not to mention, Garou performs CFDSF moments later. Bang and Bomb together can barely perform a supposedly inferior technique. He shouldn't be below Bang in terms of skill at this point.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, in strength. I am not trying to upgrade Bang's physicals though. He would still have High 7-C durability, striking strength, AP, etc. I am suggesting something along the lines of "up to High 6-C with WSRSF."

Exactly my point. If Garou's incomplete WSRSF can do that, then why Bang can't deflect an attack far above his league?

WSRF isn't AP as such when it comes to deflection. It's taking advantage of inferior technique.

What wouldn't have worked? Trying to fight against him? He doesn't admit anything of sorts as far as I remember. When Saitama tries to fight instead, he says that has no intention to fight to the death over a game.

I was misremembering something from the OVA so nevermind.

Then that's one weird way to word it. Especially considering he was using the very same technique.

Not in context. Garou hates Bang and he hates using the WSRF (something Bang invented) at all, so he simply regards it as Bang's technique.

I am aware of that sequence but it was in a sparring match. It is unlikely that either was taking it seriously. Darkshine already states that he didn't take any damage and was mostly the aggressor.

Darkshine has stated that even he doesn't know how to harm himself, and is shown to be physically superior to Bang. Him taking no damage doesn't contradict any of my points because base Bang literally can't damage him.

The fact that he's even using it as a comparison in the first place suggests this isn't the case for DS at least.

And since Bang was initially holding back against a monster like Melzalgald, I can't see him taking a spar so seriously. He also has amps such as Abandonment and Awakening Breath, to boot.

Abandonment isn't an amp, and Awakened Breath is something he only ever uses in life or death scenarios.

Following this line of thinking alongside the previous one creates a contradiction. If Garou thinks the WSRSF technique isn't strong enough to deflect Darkshine, then how come Bang's version can?

Simple. Bang is far more experienced and superior to Garou physically. I don't see a contradiction here.

I think we should just discard Darkshine's take entirely considering he doesn't know a thing about martial arts. Not to mention, Garou performs CFDSF moments later.

Garou being able to perform a CFDSF doesn't mean he's superior to Bang and Bomb individually at those techniques, just that he can impossibly combine them. We later see Bang and Bomb match Garou at these same individual techniques after his skills and strength increase dramatically.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Why?

Because he’s still exerting that much energy with his legs.

And why would that scale to the ship?

No idea. I agreed with the rotational KE scaling.

 

[Tural2004]

WSRF isn't AP as such when it comes to deflection. It's taking advantage of inferior technique.

It is a self-defense technique that can be used as an offense as well. It is noted that an opponent's attack can be returned at the twofold force with it. But the opponent's power is the hard limit to that. That's why I used "up to High 6-C" instead of simply "High 6-C." (Technically Low 6-B)

And it is not necessarily used against people with inferior techniques as well. Bang uses it to deflect RASRF.

Not in context. Garou hates Bang and he hates using the WSRF (something Bang invented) at all, so he simply regards it as Bang's technique.

Simple. Bang is far more experienced and superior to Garou physically. I don't see a contradiction here.

Nevermind. You are right. I reread the scene and it seems I was remembering one of the lines differently.

Abandonment isn't an amp,

"Amp" doesn't necessarily mean a physical one, you know?

Awakened Breath is something he only ever uses in life or death scenarios.

Regardless of that, it is the full extent of his power. Considering going against the meteor and fighting Saitama would require that kind of power, he should scale only with "Awakened Breath" anyway.

Garou being able to perform a CFDSF doesn't mean he's superior to Bang and Bomb individually at those techniques, just that he can impossibly combine them.

I meant "RASRF" by inferior technique but anyway.

We later see Bang and Bomb match Garou at these same individual techniques after his skills and strength increase dramatically

I would argue but Darkshine scaling is already off the table. It seems only Bang and likely Garou would scale to the meteor.

 

[RinneItachi]

This is the official Viz scan, it doesn't reference the OVA as directly as it did before

That's just more proof that Viz is the most ass translation site for OPM. He literally says it in the raws.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/815059415178543127/1091991470917042176/image.png?width=647&height=267

 

[RinneItachi]

Here's a link to the raw chapter if you wanna see for yourself.

[第141話] ワンパンマン - ＯＮＥ/村田雄介 | となりのヤングジャンプ

時代が求めたニューヒーロー『一撃男』と言えば?!? 『WEB界のカリスマ』と『最強ジャンプ遺伝子』の超強力タッグが描き出す！ 平熱系最強ヒーロー“サイタマ”の日常ノックアウトコミック!!

tonarinoyj.jp

 

[ByAsura]

It is a self-defense technique that can be used as an offense as well. It is noted that an opponent's attack can be returned at the twofold force with it.

Firstly, by this logic it's not even AP. You don't get anything for attack reflection that doesn't even scale to you.

Secondly, I still disagree with that two-fold logic. Return ten or two-fold (supposedly the correct translation, from what I could find) is actually an expression (i.e, you blow up my house, so I return the favour two fold), and Garou is shown punching TTM rather than reflecting the punch in the manga, the anime version and the diagram where the statement was made.

"Amp" doesn't necessarily mean a physical one, you know?

Then I'm not really sure why you brought it up, because he still could've used it in the battle without us knowing about it if that's the case.

Also, it's just not an amp in any context. It's Bang using his martial arts instincts and enhanced vision to predict moves.

Regardless of that, it is the full extent of his power. Considering going against the meteor and fighting Saitama would require that kind of power, he should scale only with "Awakened Breath" anyway.

He never spoke of Awakened Breath in the OVA, and never simply said that Saitama is stronger than his base form. So I just don't see that as a reasonable assumption.

 

[Recon1511]

That's just more proof that Viz is the most ass translation site for OPM. He literally says it in the raws.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/815059415178543127/1091991470917042176/image.png?width=647&height=267

Hmm idk I have the volume here and its just not there, probably an error from Panini too

 

[RinneItachi]

Hmm idk I have the volume here and its just not there, probably an error from Panini too

If it's an English translation then yeah it doesn't really matter because the official raws say differently. If it was supposed to be edited out for whatever reason they would have, Murata would have done that, but it remains there. The OVA's are 100% canon.

 

[RinneItachi]

And yes Suiryu definitely scales to Garou because of that.

 

[ByAsura]

No he doesn't.

The simulator broke when Garou used his full power, and King thrashed Saitama and Suiryu in the same game.

The VR system just syncs to movements and has its own game mechanics.

 

[RinneItachi]

No he doesn't.

The simulator broke when Garou used his full power, and King thrashed Saitama in the same game.

Pretty sure it was implied that Garou and Suiryu were at least within similar levels to each other. Unless them entertaining each other while still taking it easily and Suiryu wanting to fight Garou in real life is supposed to mean nothing. Just cause Garou wasn't going all-out doesn't somehow mean he wasn't putting in effort despite using WSRSF which he only uses when he feels he needs to. Sure Garou might be superior but there's no denying that the OVA was trying to suggest they were within the same league of each other, and thus Suiryu would at least downscale.

And King beating Saitama is irrelevant because the gag is that King is unbeatable in video games. He also curbstomped Suiryu faster than he could react. Unless we're gonna downgrade Saitama to Average Human level for getting hurt by a cat, this doesn't hold relevance on the discussion.

 

[RinneItachi]

Besides which, Suiryu being within the same class as Hero Hunter Garou feels more appropriate and consistent with their narrative portrayals in scaling than one just stomping the other, anyways, which is why people wanted that fight so badly.

 

[ByAsura]

Pretty sure it was implied that Garou and Suiryu were at least within similar levels to each other.

While holding back. And the simulator crashed due to Garou's speed (not Suiryu's) when he used more power.

And that's still only in terms of martial arts skills because the simulator doesn't actually replicate their true abilities.

Unless them entertaining each other while still taking it easily and Suiryu wanting to fight Garou in real life is supposed to mean nothing.

Suiryu wanting to fight Garou doesn't mean that Garou scales to Suiryu, even if Garou was fighting on par with him here. It just means he was impressed by the level of skill he displayed in this instance.

Just cause Garou wasn't going all-out doesn't somehow mean he wasn't putting in effort

Let's kick it up a gear does imply he wasn't really putting in effort.

despite using WSRSF which he only uses when he feels he needs to.

Again, martial arts skills, not physicals.

And King beating Saitama is irrelevant because the gag is that King is unbeatable in video games.

It blatantly proves that physical abilities aren't translated into the game, which has health bars.

He also curbstomped Suiryu faster than he could react.

Which wouldn't happen if Suiryu's character was as fast as his IRL self.

Unless we're gonna downgrade Saitama to Average Human level for getting hurt by a cat, this doesn't hold relevance on the discussion.

No, this point has no relevance. This is not a case of PIS, this is a case of the characters fighting inside a game that doesn't actually simulate them physically.

 

[RinneItachi]

While holding back, a lot.

And that's still only in terms of martial arts skills because the simulator doesn't actually replicate their true abilities.

Suiryu wanting to fight Garou doesn't mean that Garou scales to Suiryu, even if Garou was fighting on par with him here. It just means he was impressed by that level of skill.

Again, martial arts skills, not physicals.

It blatantly proves that physical abilities aren't translated into the game, which has health bars.

Which wouldn't happen if Suiryu's character was as fast as his IRL self.

No, this point has no relevance. This is not a case of PIS, this is a case of the characters fighting inside a game that doesn't actually simulate them physically.

You're missing the point. The narrative implications are that Suiryu and Garou are martial artists on a comparable level to each other. If Garou actually did go and meet Suiryu, he wouldn't just one-shot him and leave with disappointment, that's ludicrously disregarding all of the implications given by the OVA. I'm not arguing anything about physicals, the point of them "meeting" and "fighting" in the OVA is to tell us that these two high-caliber martial artists who are bored and want challenging opponents are comparable, but can't fight to their full extent because of the technological issues. If anything it's pretty specifically implying that Garou would probably win with high difficulty.

Suiryu can react to events in the game at his usual speed and his skill is high enough that his movements should naturally outpace King's regardless. It's a gag.

King beating Saitama and Suiryu in the game which wouldn't hinder their reaction speed at all is PiS. And the reason he did was made explicitly for a joke.

 

[ByAsura]

The episode also makes fun of people who buy into this mentality that fighting in a video game makes them equal.

The fact that they have equal martial art skills, not physical abilities, means nothing. That's the only narrative implication we get from this, because, again, the simulator doesn't actually simulate their movement speed and physical strength, just what actions they perform.

Now you're just blatantly sweeping the events of the OVA under the rug as PIS. The fact is these simulated characters can't actually move as fast as the IRL ones, which is literally why the game crashes when Garou starts to use some power. Hence, King can stomp Saitama and Suiryu.

 

[RinneItachi]

The episode also makes fun of people who buy into this mentality that fighting in a video game makes them equal.

The fact that they have equal martial art skills, not physical abilities, means nothing. Again, the simulator doesn't actually simulate their movement speed and physical strength.

Now you're just blatantly sweeping the events of the OVA under the rug as PIS. The fact is these simulated characters can't actually move as fast as the IRL ones, which is literally why the game crashes when Garou starts to use some power.

Video linked isn't working.

Which I haven't been arguing against so I don't know why you're still bringing it up as a point. My point is that Suiryu and Garou are portrayed as narratively comparable fighters, but I'm aware that narrative implications are typically considered non-factors here.

My guy are you actually reading my replies when you respond?

 

[ByAsura]

One Punch Man: Special Episode: Episode 10 | bilibili

www.bilibili.tv

Go to 3:42.

I am reading, but there's literally nothing of substance to respond to. It's just 'they're equal because the narrative portrays them as equal martial artists'.

That's not an argument because that would only make their skills equal, not their abilities since the simulator doesn't replicate them.

Also, since when the hell did we even go off narrative implications entirely when the hard evidence isn't actually given in the episode?

 

[RinneItachi]

I am reading, but there's literally nothing of substance to respond to. It's just 'they're equal because the narrative portrays them as equal martial artists'.

That's not an argument because that would only make their skills equal, not their abilities since the simulator doesn't replicate them.

Also, since when the hell did we even go off narrative implications entirely?

"entirely".

They are both consistently, respectively portrayed on a level within lower S-Class tiers of strength, able to take out Demon level Monster's but struggling with and probably losing to Dragon's. Their previous scaling already would have put them in similar categories of fighters. This OVA served to further imply that human Garou and Suiryu would be comparable opponents. I don't know why you're acting like they're from separate universes and this OVA is a crossover my guy. Everyone in the fanbase pretty much unanimously agreed they'd probably give each other a good time, and honestly the OVA was made entirely around that, by blue-balling us after giving us a taste of that fight.

 

[Recon1511]

I mean its still pure speculation and the canonicity of the OVA is questionable, one OVA being canon doesn't make the rest canon as well

 

[Recon1511]

Like I think everyone here agrees that Suiryu is equal if not slightly inferior to Human Garou but there isn't enough actual proof for even a 'possibly" rating

 

[ByAsura]

That's not even the case.

Suiryu only ever beat Choze, who isn't stated to be Demon level. And he never fights a Dragon level, except Gouketsu (who ***** on normal Dragons), at full power. Otherwise, his best feat is wrecking A-Class and one-shotting one of the Three Crows, who are only Demon level as a collective.

My ******* god: they have comparable skill. I'm not treating them as if they're from a separate universe, I'm treating them as if they fought in a simulator that only applies to their martial art abilities and gaming skills. I'm actually using facts and narrative information.

 

[RinneItachi]

I mean its still pure speculation and the canonicity of the OVA is questionable, one OVA being canon doesn't make the rest canon as well

All of them being written by ONE and one of them being canonically referenced is pretty good evidence to me. I mean, if nothing else, it would easily be enough to warrant a "likely" because of all the implications, and I have no idea how that could be considered a stretch.

 

[ByAsura]

Let's see.

• There's no hard evidence.
• It didn't happen that way.
• That's not even what this would imply.
• King blatantly destroys this notion.
• Another narrative implication suggest the opposite.
• There's no comparisons to be made otherwise.

I've seen far more logical arguments barely scrape by with a possibly rating.

This is a stretch so big that you could fit the grand canyon inside.

Put this into perspective; we don't even accept (as of yet) that Orochi is inferior to Boros, despite numerous instances where Boros is portrayed as an extremely noteworthy and strong adversary by comparison. Why would we accept what you're trying to shill here?

 

[RinneItachi]

That's not even the case.

Suiryu only ever beat Choze, who isn't stated to be Demon level. And he never fights a Dragon level, except Gouketsu (who ***** on normal Dragons), at full power. Otherwise, his best feat is one-shotting one of the Three Crows, who are only Demon level as a collective.

My ******* god: they have comparable skill. I'm not treating them as if they're from a separate universe, I'm treating them as if they fought in a simulator that only replicates their martial art abilities. I'm actually using facts and narrative information.

Never stated to be Demon level. His feats, scaling, and the amp consistently provided by Monster Cell's suggests he would be. He was already able to casually kill one of the transformed fighters in human form, was considered a high-level fighter in the tournament which has numerous A-Class and A-Class tier fighters, and the Monster Cell's give a gigantic amplification in strength that usually seems to make up an entire difference of disaster level. Gouketsu was even somewhat impressed by Choze's transformation, and Gouketsu noted that Suiryu beating Choze meant he would be a waste of a potentially very strong Monster, so much that even Gouketsu was willing to forgive Suiryu and give him a second chance. I might be misremembering, but I am quite sure Genos, who at this point can casually one-shot Demon level Monster's, pretty openly acknowledges Suiryu's strength. If none of that apparently even remotely implies Suiryu can beat Demon level Monster's, I'm not sure what else there is to be said...

Sound pretty mad for some reason, maybe take a break and come back. Anyways yes I know, you're only using what's shown on a surface level and not using critical thinking to even entertain an alternative possibility. That's always been the vs. wiki way, and it is literally why the website gets mocked by the majority of scaling community on a daily basis. It's the same reason why according to the wiki, Toppo can beat Jiren.

 

[RinneItachi]

Let's see.

• There's no hard evidence.
• It didn't happen that way.
• That's not even what this would imply.
• King blatantly destroys this notion.
• Another narrative implication suggest the opposite.
• There's no comparisons to be made otherwise.

I've seen far more logical arguments barely scrape by with a possibly rating.

This is a stretch so big that you could fit the grand canyon inside.

Put this into perspective; we don't even accept (as of yet) that Orochi is inferior to Boros, despite numerous instances where Boros is portrayed as an extremely noteworthy and strong adversary by comparison. Why would we accept what you're trying to shill here?

I don't believe the wiki would. I was just trying to hold out faith for some reason. Anyways I'll go find something better to do.

 

[ByAsura]

Never stated to be Demon level. His feats, scaling, and the amp consistently provided by Monster Cell's suggests he would be.

I said never stated because you're arguing about related implications.

He was already able to casually kill one of the transformed fighters in human form,

Meaningless, especially when Lightning Max is one of the stronger Super Fight competitors.

was considered a high-level fighter in the tournament which has numerous A-Class and A-Class tier fighters

Garou is above many S-Class, so that's still meaningless.

and the Monster Cell's give a gigantic amplification in strength that usually seems to make up an entire difference of disaster level

Disaster levels range massively in power.

Pre-G4 Genos could slaughter Hydrated DSK, but still had extreme trouble with Demons even after receiving the G4 upgrades.

Gouketsu was even somewhat impressed by Choze's transformation

So that puts him above A-Class. Which is meaningless.

and Gouketsu noted that Suiryu beating Choze meant he would be a waste of a potentially very strong Monster, so much that even Gouketsu was willing to forgive Suiryu and give him a second chance.

So that puts him above A-Class. Which is meaningless.

I might be misremembering, but I am quite sure Genos, who at this point can casually one-shot Demon level Monster's, pretty openly acknowledges Suiryu's strength.

Suiryu is going to scale above Garou in AP, so acknowledging Suiryu's strength wouldn't put them at the same level.

If none of that apparently even remotely implies Suiryu can beat Demon level Monster's, I'm not sure what else there is to be said...

I didn't say he couldn't, I said beating Demon levels doesn't make them equal, which is a fact.

Otherwise you could say the same thing about half of S-Class.

Sound pretty mad for some reason, maybe take a break and come back.

No, it's because you're still not giving me anything, yet you insist that you must be right.

Anyways yes I know, you're only using what's shown on a surface level and not using critical thinking to even entertain an alternative possibility.

Yet you're not even willing to entertain the possibility that your 'narrative implications' simply aren't the be-all end-all.

That's always been the vs. wiki way, and it is literally why the website gets mocked by the majority of scaling community on a daily basis.

I am using critical thinking.

Not using critical thinking is trying to scale two characters simply based on the fact that their martial art skills are equal, and they want to have a fight in the future.

That alone is sus, but then you also have the fact that both the narrative and the actual events of the episode don't support this logic at all.

Actually bring some proper evidence, and then we can have a conversation.

It's the same reason why according to the wiki, Toppo can beat Jiren.

The wiki does not say that in any capacity (barring massively suppressed forms of Jiren). What have you been reading? It literally says that he's stronger than actual GoDs while holding back.

I don't believe the wiki would. I was just trying to hold out faith for some reason. Anyways I'll go find something better to do.

Y'all always ******* do this the wiki is so biased thing when you can't pass upgrades based entirely on the loosest narrative interpretations. I swear.

And it's so weird because there's logical shit to disagree with, like (although I personally am neutral on this) Atomic Sunblade and Golden Sperm not scaling to Homeless Emperor.

 

[Cyber_VERGIL]

Too many messages in the last 6 hours.

In short, what are you arguing about?

 

[ByAsura]

Basically, Suiryu and Garou fought in a martial arts game that doesn't actually copy their strength, speed, etc. And King stomped both Suiryu and Saitama in the same simulator.

A held-back Garou (as in holding back his speed in the real world) fought against Suiryu, and they were equal in martial arts ability. Garou then crashed the simulation by using more speed in the real world.

After that, Garou asked where Suiryu was because he wanted to fight him.

RinneItachi is suggesting that the narrative implications of Garou having fun during the simulation and wanting to fight Suiryu means they're equal in terms of physical abilities.

I disagree. Not only does that mean nothing in terms of physicals, but the episode ***** on (Suiryu referring to King after getting stomped in the game) the notion of martial arts and strength scaling repeatedly (Genos referring to King after King stomped Saitama in the game).

 

[RinneItachi]

I didn't say he couldn't, I said beating Demon levels doesn't make them equal, which is a fact.

No, it's because you're still not giving me anything, yet you insist that you must be right.

Yet you're not even willing to entertain the possibility that your 'narrative implications' simply aren't the be-all end-all.

I am using critical thinking.

Not using critical thinking is trying to scale two characters simply based on the fact that their martial art skills are equal, and they want to have a fight in the future.

That alone is sus, but then you also have the fact that both the narrative and the actual events of the episode don't support this logic at all.

Actually bring some proper evidence, and then we can have a conversation.

The wiki does not say that in any capacity (barring massively suppressed forms of Jiren). What have you been reading? It literally says that he's stronger than actual GoDs while holding back.

"I didn't say he couldn't, I said beating Demon levels doesn't make them equal, which is a fact."

Skipping most of that cause I'm not gonna address every little thing. Them being in S-Class levels of power and being capable of beating Demon levels is already putting them in the same category as power, that doesn't make them equals and I never said it did, I said it is supportive evidence for the narrative implications that they are comparable.

"No, it's because you're still not giving me anything, yet you insist that you must be right."

I'm not insisting I must be right, I'm having an open discussion, but apparently the fact that different people may not agree with you means that they are ignorant, egotistical, and believe everything they say is fact. Of course I will be confident in my own beliefs, that doesn't mean I think I can't be wrong. The ironic thing is that you're acting the very way you're criticizing me of acting.

"Yet you're not even willing to entertain the possibility that your 'narrative implications' simply aren't the be-all end-all."

Again, taking my words out of context and emphasizing what I'm saying beyond reality. How many times will you do this? I'm saying that clear narrative implications in tandem with the fact that the two characters in question are already within similar categories of power by their respective scaling would suggest that they are clearly supposed to be comparable to each other, which is something that essentially the entire fanbase unanimously agrees upon. And that literally completely disregarding these things like they are non-existent is just outright silly.

"I am using critical thinking.

Not using critical thinking is trying to scale two characters simply based on the fact that their martial art skills are equal, and they want to have a fight in the future.

That alone is sus, but then you also have the fact that both the narrative and the actual events of the episode don't support this logic at all.

Actually bring some proper evidence, and then we can have a conversation."

So to summarize it, "I am right and you are wrong, period.". And once again straw manning.

"The wiki does not say that in any capacity (barring massively suppressed forms of Jiren). What have you been reading? It literally says that he's stronger than actual GoDs while holding back."

And yet he still doesn't have existence erasure resistance, which is why Toppo beat him in a thread a long, long time ago. The same issue of only regarding face-value, blatant evidence and disregarding all forms of non-concrete evidence as "speculative" remains in the wiki to this day. And is the same reason for why this discussion and many similar discussions have happened in this thread. It's nearly equivalent to posting a screenshot of Buuhan saying he's omnipotent and saying it's true unless I can show proof to debunk it.

 

[RinneItachi]

Too many messages in the last 6 hours.

In short, what are you arguing about?

Basically what Asura said yes, but again he's ignoring the second part of my argument, which is that Suiryu and Garou were ALREADY within the same general category of strength (S-Class tier humans that can defeat Demon level Monster's). Which never proved that they were equal, but that this OVA in addition to that is more than sufficient to at least say it's suggested that they are probably comparable fighters, something the entire fanbase of OPM would agree on.

 

[ByAsura]

Skipping most of that cause I'm not gonna address every little thing. Them being in S-Class levels of power and being capable of beating Demon levels is already putting them in the same category as power, that doesn't make them equals and I never said it did, I said it is supportive evidence for the narrative implications that they are comparable.

Again, a category full of one-shot gaps, even if you're just looking at Demon level in a vacuum.

So, no, there's still no narrative implication, especially when you take into account that Garou casually wrecks several A-Class heroes with S-Class levels of power in his opening appearance.

They're unrelated narratives within the verse.

I'm saying that clear narrative implications in tandem with the fact that the two characters in question are already within similar categories of power by their respective scaling would suggest that they are clearly supposed to be comparable to each other, which is something that essentially the entire fanbase unanimously agrees upon. And that literally completely disregarding these things like they are non-existent is just outright silly.

And I'm saying that the narrative implications aren't actually implications, and the 'similar categories' argument is really gaps of dozens of times.

I'm not disregarding shit. I just blatantly disagree with your arguments.

When will you stop taking my arguments out of context?

Not using critical thinking is trying to scale two characters simply based on the fact that their martial art skills are equal, and they want to have a fight in the future.

something the entire fanbase of OPM would agree on.

This is what I mean. You're saying this shit as if it's a fact that everyone believes, when it's the most meaningless shit in existence.

This is like scaling pre-God Garou to Saitama because Saitama thought he was the leader of the Monster Association (based on feats, mind you) and quite possibly a good fight.

It's actually even worse because Garou has no other frame of reference than Suiryu's martial arts capability, rather than any sort of physical power.

So to summarize it, "I am right and you are wrong, period.". And once again straw manning.

And yet he still doesn't have existence erasure resistance, which is why Toppo beat him in a thread a long, long time ago.

The thread that's no longer on his profile. Right.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Put this into perspective; we don't even accept (as of yet) that Orochi is inferior to Boros, despite numerous instances where Boros is portrayed as an extremely noteworthy and strong adversary by comparison. Why would we accept what you're trying to shill here?

Ban

 

[Quangotjokes]

Who the heck is Gloryverse? Lol

 

[ByAsura]

According to Ziller, it's VSBW if Boros scaled above Orochi.

 

[RinneItachi]

"Again, a category full of one-shot gaps, even if you're just looking at Demon level in a vacuum."

Omg. I'm just gonna leave this alone and hope you're getting my point sometime later cause it just ain't getting through.

"And I'm saying that the narrative implications aren't actually implications, and the 'similar categories' argument is really gaps of dozens of times."

The clear fact that Garou and Suiryu are inhumanly capable martial artists within the beyond human level of the S-Class who are entertained by each other in a play match with both being heavily restrained still even isn't an implication at all that maybe they could be of similar combat ability, indeed.

"I'm not disregarding shit, I just don't agree with your arguments."

Misunderstanding me for the 50th time now.

"When will you stop taking my arguments out of context?"

Repeating what someone else is saying to try to make a point usually doesn't work. I haven't taken your argument out of context at all, in fact it's pretty hard to because your argument is literally just "no true evidence so no real point".

"This is what I mean. You're saying this shit as if it's a fact, when it's by far the most meaningless shit in existence."

The only thing here I think is a fact is that we shouldn't so commonly ignore anything that isn't just blatant evidence shoved in our faces like a feat or unvague statement as if the only thing that matters is concrete, upfront evidence. Btw, genuine question can I ask you why you would think the fanbase tends to agree that Suiryu and Garou would have a good match? Do you believe that it's completely irrational and unfounded?

"This is like scaling pre-God Garou to Saitama because Saitama thought he was the leader of the Monster Association and quite possibly a good fight."

Except it isn't because of...Christ there is literally a veritable mountain of reasons, where do I even begin? Like, there were some actual examples you could make that would be fairly accurate, but that's like, one of the worst ones I can think of.

"The thread that's no longer on his profile. Right."

Which is why I referred to it in past-tense. The point isn't what the wiki things about that specific subject, the point is that the same problem on the wiki that was there when said match happened remains. Not that specific issue, but the lack of consideration that, just maybe, not everything needs to have a visible on-screen feat or credible character saying it for to be considered likely to be true? I could still make the argument that Toppo at least draws with Jiren using this same logic.

 

[Quangotjokes]

What are webcomic profiles waiting on?

 

[RinneItachi]

What are webcomic profiles waiting on?

People who care about them enough to make them, I think. Or maybe it was something I forgot about idk.