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Strongest Non-Smurf Low 2-C (Discussion)

If Mori moves to 5th spot then Medea should have at least that, as they shared the spot before, no? I mean, Medea can't be defeated by Ecang for exactly the same reason.
But yeah, since Veldora has no multiversal+ range she should at least incon, so she could also get to 3rd.
TheGreatJedi13 said:
if it is spread out in a 2-A universe then probably not. the cosmology caps at 2-B before going tier 1 so her dimensional travel probably won't reach all 2-A universe.
That weakness section about abstract doesn't really apply to Death anymore that's an old weakness that hasn't been updated.
I've read infinity destroyer and uh
I'm not sure Death's case is that due to her nature, she is basically deathless that is above the deathless of a regular primal beast
erasing someone across past present and future might work and all possible versions of herself that are if she will get the chance to use it since Death and Nier hold nothing back when it comes to killing. other than that all those killed by Death can be resurrected by her and be used to have all their memory powers etc.
idk if that would actually let Death use Medea's infinity destroyer but I doubt it'll happen since Death doesn't like resurrecting someone she doesn't love (AKA anyone not nier). but she could resu a clone with different memory and make her subservient

at best it would just in cap into an endless massacre that will never end causing infinite clones and infinite multiverse.
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I mean, Medea gets a chance to use it due to having a huge reaction speed advantage. Medea can pretty much throw everything she has against Nier, before she gets her turn.
 
DontTalkDT said:
If Mori moves to 5th spot then Medea should have at least that, as they shared the spot before, no? I mean, Medea can't be defeated by Ecang for exactly the same reason.
But yeah, since Veldora has no multiversal+ range she should at least incon, so she could also get to 3rd.

I mean, Medea gets a chance to use it due to having a huge reaction speed advantage. Medea can pretty much throw everything she has against Nier, before she gets her turn.
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Granblue got kicked out from list, because upgrade smurf 6D
 
DontTalkDT said:
If Mori moves to 5th spot then Medea should have at least that, as they shared the spot before, no?
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I mean Medea can no longer actually kill Mori since once I get around to applying recent revisions he's gonna resist CM Type 2, Soul, Mind, and Biological Manipulation on a 4-D level so he's basically gonna neg Infinity Destroyer which was Medea's only way to kill him-
 
Btw, it's really fair put Veldora in 3rd spot? Actually he can got incon with 4th and 5th spot, not only with Dracula.

Sadly 4th and 5th spot got beaten by Dracula
 
azontr said:
I mean Medea can no longer actually kill Mori since once I get around to applying recent revisions he's gonna resist CM Type 2, Soul, Mind, and Biological Manipulation on a 4-D level so he's basically gonna neg Infinity Destroyer which was Medea's only way to kill him-
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Even if that were the case, he couldn't kill her either, so at best it would be incon and he would still not be above her.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Even if that were the case, he couldn't kill her either, so at best it would be incon and he would still not be above her.
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He doesn't need to kill her tho cause if she can't kill him anymore she no longer has a way to circumvent the gay aura lol.
 
azontr said:
I mean Medea can no longer actually kill Mori since once I get around to applying recent revisions he's gonna resist CM Type 2, Soul, Mind, and Biological Manipulation on a 4-D level so he's basically gonna neg Infinity Destroyer which was Medea's only way to kill him-
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Not sure how any of that prevents the attack from harming him, she still has a substantial AP and range advantage. Kek.
 
YungManzi said:
Not sure how any of that prevents the attack from harming him, she still has a substantial AP and range advantage. Kek.
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It prevents it from harming him because now that all the hax is resisted he could just nullify or copy it without issue lol.
 
azontr said:
It's a bad argument which I've already debunked though soooooooooo
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No you didn’t, we just fundamentally disagree on how immeasurable and Omnipresence interacts with each other.

The way I view it;
Temporal Omnipresence = True Immeasurable

So, simply put, someone with Temporal Omnipresence cannot react to multiple true immeasurables at once.
 
And by true immeasurable I mean people who can instantly traverse the entire timeline all at once via speed, not just people who can time travel via speed (Which I personally don’t think should even count as immeasurable kek)
 
YungManzi said:
No you didn’t, we just fundamentally disagree on how immeasurable and Omnipresence interacts with each other.

The way I view it;
Temporal Omnipresence = True Immeasurable

So, simply put, someone with Temporal Omnipresence cannot react to multiple true immeasurables at once.
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Me agreeing to disagree on your view doesn't mean I agree with them, or that I didn't debunk them.

So, don't know what you want me to say chief.
 
YungManzi said:
Which part of that argument did you debunk?
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All of it-

Reiterating my stance again (something I told to both you and DontTalk); To assume that simply adding on more immeasurables to the equation will overwhelm Mori is to apply an unnecessary limit to his abilities that has never been shown in the story. The burden of proof lay on you to prove that Mori would be fundamentally "overwhelmed" by more of the same person even though he doesn't even need to physically attack a single Medea to defeat her.
 
That's just NLF. We assume a character is limited by the feats and statements they've shown, if he doesn't have feats of doing what you're saying, then he can't do it.

His Omnipresence is that he can exist everywhere and everywhen, same as Medea's attack speed, except she has other versions with the same attack speed.
So any counter Mori would levi would have to be actively used against multiple/many people with essentially the same speed rating as him at the same time. That's the proof that he'd be overwhelmed. He, quite literally, doesn't have the feats to back up what you're saying.
 
YungManzi said:
That's just NLF. We assume a character is limited by the feats and statements they've shown, if he doesn't have feats of doing what you're saying, then he can't do it.

His Omnipresence is that he can exist everywhere and everywhen, same as Medea's attack speed, except she has other versions with the same attack speed.
So any counter Mori would levi would have to be actively used against multiple/many people with essentially the same speed rating as him at the same time. That's the proof that he'd be overwhelmed. He, quite literally, doesn't have the feats to back up what you're saying.
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It's not an NLF, it's just basic logic....? Like how do you not get this.

Let's say we have Character A. Character has passive hax Character B does not resist. Character A passively beats Character B. Adding more of Character B doesn't logically make it so that Character B can ******* overwhelm hax they don't resist.

Actual basic logic supports my stance over yours Manzi, you are objectively incorrect.
 
azontr said:
It's not an NLF, it's just basic logic....? Like how do you not get this.

Let's say we have Character A. Character has passive hax Character B does not resist. Character A passively beats Character B. Adding more of Character B doesn't logically make it so that Character B can ******* overwhelm hax they don't resist.
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We're not talking about him defeating Medea though, we're talking about him just reacting to and countering her, which he have to do for many versions of her at the same time.

Also, this is not a passive instant-win situation. If anything, I could argue it's a hard sell that Mori would even be able to react to one version of Medea; let alone multiple.
 
YungManzi said:
We're not talking about him defeating Medea though, we're talking about him just reacting to and countering her, which he have to do for many versions of her at the same time.

Also, this is not a passive instant-win situation. If anything, I could argue it's a hard sell that Mori would even be able to react to one version of Medea; let alone multiple.
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You have argued that and failed Manzi what tf are you talking about 🌚 you're going in circles with this shit.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Couldn't she at least incap the tree by keeping its universe perpetually deleted?

Edit: In fact, can't she just kill it? I see no regeneration or abstract anything amongst the 3rd level abilities.
Click to expand...
Nope, people at this level can survive and act even after being entirely cut off from the universe along with time, space, and fate

No, if you are talking about Infinity Destroyer it resists along with being able to keep up with its own immeasurable speed
If you are talking about the whole destroying the universe passively, Ecang has enough dura to withstand it easily, as even entry-level third step cultivators have enough power to destroy the universe with a thought, and ecang is stronger than them
 
deonment said:
Nope, people at this level can survive and act even after being entirely cut off from the universe along with time, space, and fate
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This would be more than just cut off and more than just time, space and fate. It would be a power with casualty and law erasure, along with concept stuff, constantly erasing it and the universe at any point in time simultaneously (with some acausality mixed in so that it doesn't undo itself).

deonment said:
No, if you are talking about Infinity Destroyer it resists along with being able to keep up with its own immeasurable speed
Click to expand...
I don't see the resistances for that? Like, concept is specifically excluded and the only causality is just about undodgeable attacks, which is way too unimpressive compared to the causality based reality warping SH characters do. Additionally, it would need to tank the brute force of the attack and I don't see which way it does that. Like, which defense does it have against regular AP?

And speed equal Medea's reactions are faster, because her combat speed is much slower.

deonment said:
If you are talking about the whole destroying the universe passively, Ecang has enough dura to withstand it easily, as even entry-level third step cultivators have enough power to destroy the universe with a thought, and ecang is stronger than them
Click to expand...
Medea has enough power that she would destroy a universe not with a thought, but by merely existing in it. Her existence alone is too "heavy" for a universe to sustain. It requires a special universe created by fusing 8 universes together to reinforce it, to be able to even endure her manifesting in it. And even a universe like that could be casually deleted by her. Naofumi (who obviously is much stronger than Medea's casual attacks) has to bind her with a special technique to prevent that and yet, when she got serious, she was breaking through even that.

So, Medea is way stronger than a basic Low 2-C and could get lots of hits in quickly at that.
 
Dragonite007 said:
This thing don't have any explanion to its powers

And his Striking Strength and Durability is Unknown, so he don't qualify
Click to expand...
It's only Low 2-C via knowing what a universe is. Something it can't figure out right off the bat. It is limited to EE based on association. So if it hears footsteps, it first erases the concept of footsteps, then the concept of feet, and then the concept of the people making the footsteps.

Don't know if it needs it, since it affected SCP-3930.
 
Kirinator07 said:
Its only Low 2-C via knowing what a universe is. Something it can't figure out right off the bat. it is limited to EE based on association. So if it hears footsteps, it first erases the concept of footsteps, then the concept of feet, and then concept of the people making the footsteps.

Don't know if it needs it, since it affected SCP-3930.
Click to expand...
Nop, SCP 2470 can't beat even the 10th, so he don't enter in the list
 
DontTalkDT said:
This would be more than just cut off and more than just time, space and fate. It would be a power with casualty and law erasure, along with concept stuff, constantly erasing it and the universe at any point in time simultaneously (with some acausality mixed in so that it doesn't undo itself).
Click to expand...
Causality is included in Fate in-verse, in addition to already resisting it, law manip and concept manip is resisted as well, I was pointing it out to mention how deleting the universe won't do anything to them
DontTalkDT said:
I don't see the resistances for that? Like, concept is specifically excluded and the only causality is just about undodgeable attacks, which is way too unimpressive compared to the causality based reality warping SH characters do. Additionally, it would need to tank the brute force of the attack and I don't see which way it does that. Like, which defense does it have against regular AP?

And speed equal Medea's reactions are faster, because her combat speed is much slower.
Click to expand...
CM1 is only excluded when it comes to Essence, which is 1-A, but domains that are still CM1 are included and resisted, this includes domains that straight up erase people, on the issue of causality, Wang Lin had domains based upon Karma and Life and Death, both of which involve causality, hell Infinity Destroyer is literally the latter, Wang Lin has used his domain before to straight up bring stuff to their end. Will cover AP issues below
DontTalkDT said:
Medea has enough power that she would destroy a universe not with a thought, but by merely existing in it. Her existence alone is too "heavy" for a universe to sustain. It requires a special universe created by fusing 8 universes together to reinforce it, to be able to even endure her manifesting in it. And even a universe like that could be casually deleted by her. Naofumi (who obviously is much stronger than Medea's casual attacks) has to bind her with a special technique to prevent that and yet, when she got serious, she was breaking through even that.

So, Medea is way stronger than a basic Low 2-C and could get lots of hits in quickly at that.
Click to expand...
Yes and Ecang scales to or above people who would oneshot those people who could destroy the universe with a thought.
DT you know as well as I do that stacking 8 spacetimes is not that impressive since infinity*8= is still infinity, there is still only an R number of 3D snapshots. That is not that impressive as an AP feat
Also, she passively destroys the world by draining it which is expressly shown in the AP section multiple times, along with the fact that the seals were to stop her from draining the world.
 
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