Strongest Character for Every Tier 32

[Blackcurrant91]

What 'meta' powers does She have? I don't see any plot manip or concep manip. Sure if she has High 2-A void manipulation I could see her beating Khorne.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The Atlas is unlikely to enter the running but it's relatively haxed so dumping it here

 

[Blackcurrant91]

How do you see it doing against Slime boy?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Most of their powers are derived from meta powers. The Mind Manip, which I'm not really sure that's what you would call it, comes from hijacking control of the game and being able to control the characters. Her void manip comes from erasing the save file, and thus all of the characters and events involved. Her time stop bypasses turn based mechanics, and can attack when it isn't her turn.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Yeah but in verse equalisation surely 'Skipping your turn' doesn't apply right? what else can she use breaking the 4th wall to do? Sounds like something Khorne's power nullification would work extremely well on honestly but again I dunno enough about Khorne.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

The skipping turn thing wasn't what I was focussing on. Its the hijacking the game that is more important, where she can control his actions. She can also erase the "save file" and thus all the events and characters including him.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Interesting.

Chara has similar feats and I believe she lost to Khorne? I don't remember why though.

 

[Overlord775]

@Iapitus

Erasing the save file wouldn't do much since warhammer fantasy multiverse >> Nurgle's realm >> swamp containing countless dead universes

so it wouldn't affect the entirity of Khorne

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Save File erasure works on a transcendent realm above countless universes. Its a borderline dimensional jump, so bravely default's cosmology > Warhammer fantasy multiverse,

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Interesting.
Chara has similar feats and I believe she lost to Khorne? I don't remember why though.

Save File erasure effects beings that can jump a reality fiction difference above a countless multiverse, so Providence's is superior to chara's

 

[Kaltias]

"Borderline dimensional jump" isn't a thing.

It's like saying "almost infinitely above", the gap is either infinite or it's not.

 

[Overlord775]

No, that's the reasoning for Providence being possibly high 2-A

that doesn't matter if you count her as 2-B

 

[Agnaa]

No, that's the reasoning for Providence being possibly high 2-A

that doesn't matter if you count her as 2-B

If she's High 2-A for assuming a jump, and 2-B for not assuming a jump, and we're using the 2-B key, we shouldn't assume a jump.

 

[RotofBots]

Khorne beats Providence most likely. He's a type 1 Abstract of a type 2 concept and has type 5 Acausality. Providence's « meta hax » does not have showings of affectting such a being.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

"Borderline dimensional jump" isn't a thing.
It's like saying "almost infinitely above", the gap is either infinite or it's not.

I say that because the 2-B thing doesn't mean that it isn't a completely transcendental realm. It likely is infinitely above, but I am just trying to illustrate the difference

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Khorne beats Providence most likely. He's a type 1 Abstract of a type 2 concept and has type 5 Acausality. Providence's « meta hax » does not have showings of affectting such a being.

I don't think he is a type 1 abstract in his lowest key. What Khorne is shouldn't matter when she is controlling his "inputs."

 

[Kaltias]

Yeah but the point is, it affects AP only if it's an actual higher dimensional realm.

Madoka lives in a higher realm and all, doesn't make her "almost High 2-A".

And if you do consider it as a higher dimensional realm, Providence is High 2-A and can't compete for strongest 2-B

 

[RotofBots]

But it does. Does she have feats of affecting a type 1 Abstract of a type 2 concept? Has she ever affected a type 5 Acausal? She needs feats of doing such. This is how we treat these sorts of things.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How do you see it doing against Slime boy?

Dunno. Atlas doesn't really do combat in-verse and has only really flexed on lower tiers on the level of The Anomaly. When it did that it cast the creature in question out of existence (BFR + EE).

Just viewing Atlas is enough to change the religions of all species within each universe so technically-passive Mind Manip, and just hearing/seeing his words caused racial madness in the Korvax.

AP wise they scale to qunitillions of universes.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yeah but the point is, it affects AP only if it's an actual higher dimensional realm.
Madoka lives in a higher realm and all, doesn't make her "almost High 2-A".

And if you do consider it as a higher dimensional realm, Providence is High 2-A and can't compete for strongest 2-B

Nah, because it is still a transcendent perspective. Just because it is a potentially infinite jump, doesn't mean it was into a higher dimensional level. From what I understand of why they aren't just flat out High 2-A anyway

is it an infinite jump into that higher realm?

More so, that it wasn't a higher dimensional jump but still a trascendent jump. The only way they aren't high 2-A is if the realm is transcendental but not a full dimensional jump, but it is still vastly superior to the lower realm.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Interesting. Might make the match.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

But it does. Does she have feats of affecting a type 1 Abstract of a type 2 concept? Has she ever affected a type 5 Acausal? She needs feats of doing such. This is how we treat these sorts of things.

Khorne has no feats of resisting any sort of meta powers either. Her """Mind Manip""" is the equivolent of her kicking the player aside and picking up the controller to force the character to damage itself. Does causality have anything to do with that? No. Does being abstract have anything to do with that? No. Then it doesn't matter.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...actually it does. You'd have to show the ability to affect something abstract (a concept would do, I think) but being disjoined from causality such as Type 5 Acausality offers means doing something doesn't guarantee a result at all, or any kind of result related to the cause.

 

[RotofBots]

Yes it does. Type 1 Abstracts exist as the abstraction itself so you have to affect the entirety of the concept in order to affect them. So as I was saying, has meta hax ever worked on entire concepts because if not, it won't affect Khorne.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

...actually it does. You'd have to show the ability to affect something abstract (a concept would do, I think) but being disjoined from causality such as Type 5 Acausality offers means doing something doesn't guarantee a result at all, or any kind of result related to the cause.

What does in-universe causality have to do with a player playing as a character exactly? The only tie to causality that would have would be some kind of narative causality but that is basically just causality in name alone.

 

[Kaltias]

Nah, because it is still a transcendent perspective. Just because it is a potentially infinite jump, doesn't mean it was into a higher dimensional level. From what I understand of why they aren't just flat out High 2-A anyway

is it an infinite jump into that higher realm?

More so, that it wasn't a higher dimensional jump but still a trascendent jump. The only way they aren't high 2-A is if the realm is transcendental but not a full dimensional jump, but it is still vastly superior to the lower realm.

Yes but the point is, reality-fiction interactions are either a simple "much stronger than" (which doesn't mean much when Khorne is much stronger than, say, Slaneesh) or a higher dimensional jump.

Assuming "infinite but not enough for a higher dimension" is just random

 

[RotofBots]

As for Causality, yes it does as well.

Providence activating meta powers (Cause) —-> Khorne being affected by meta powers (Effect)

However, in the case of a type 5 acausal, they are detached from cause and effect thus providence won't be able to really affect Khorne since the cause wouldn't affect him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yes it does. Type 1 Abstracts exist as the abstraction itself so you have to affect the entirety of the concept in order to affect them. So as I was saying, has meta hax ever worked on entire concepts because if not, it won't affect Khorne.

Yes, now what exactly does a character being abstract have to do with a player controlling them or not? What exactly does a character being abstract ever had to do with them being removed rom narative flow? The 2 things are totally unrelated.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@kaltias

Not necesarilly. Especially in the case of 1-As, an infinite jump is also a viable interpretation of a reality fiction difference

I'm assuming it based on the profile. I didn't make it, but that's how it is. I know that the jump is reality fiction difference, and it isn't just a massive jump in power, so the alternative is infinite but not a dimensional jump.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

As for Causality, yes it does as well.
Providence activating meta powers (Cause) —-> Khorne being affected by meta powers (Effect)

However, in the case of a type 5 acausal, they are detached from cause and effect thus providence won't be able to really affect Khorne since the cause wouldn't affect him.

That's not how their meta powers work. U seem to have missunderstood. They do not directly involve Khorne, but more so the "controller" behind his actions, which by its very nature already works.

Yeah, but even he is bound by narative causality. Things like the inputs on a controller are not a part of the causal system that he is a part from. Thus, him being accausal does not matter.

 

[Overlord775]

Meta powers are the most wanked thing ever

 

[Mr. Bambu]

^

 

[Yobo_Blue]

There's really no evidence here that her meta powers will suddenly overcome a lack of causality in Khorne, especially when he is so much stronger.

And while we're at it, "breaking the controller" was a similar metaphor used to justify the old wanked White Face null, so someone should really look to make sure this isn't the same case.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

There is evidence. I went over it above. He also really isn't stronger than her by any meaningful difference.

Idk anything about white face, but Accausality and Abstraction have nothing to do with ones interaction with the plot or meta abilities.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

But abilities that interact with those concepts do, and those abilities have to prove that they can change the plot in a substantial enough way to overcome those limits.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

A single level of transcendence that doesn't even cover a dimension jump is definitely to vague to overcome AP on the level of Khorne, and there isn't anything stopping him from saying "lolunfair"

 

[DMB_1]

And while we're at it, "breaking the controller" was a similar metaphor used to justify the old wanked White Face null, so someone should really look to make sure this isn't the same case.

You mean the average Yu-G-Oh! Null ovo

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

No, they don't. How do they? Also, who mentioned anything about conception.

This is the same thing as claiming that someone is beyond the concept of death, therefore they should be unneffected by BFR. They are completely unrelated

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Except this is causality we are talking about here. Causality would encompass those things, so that's a extremely poor metaphor. They are related because by that logic Popeye can kill YHVH because killing the author is above killing the character. A character must prove they can influence the plot on a level above their causality, as the power changing it and the plot itself are on entirely different levels.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Causality has absolutely nothing to do with the meta plot. Being beyond causality, has nothing to do with being beyond the effects of meta abilities or the plot. Killing a being who is several dimensional layers above you due to an author feat is nothing like the current situation. Khorne and Providence are on the same level, and you are claiming that based on completely unrelated ground that an ability should not work. Again, what the hell does plot have to do with relation to in-verse causality? Detatchment from causality also has absolutely nothing to do with level of power. There are Wall Levels with Type 4 acausality. You are again basically asking me to say "prove that BFR can work on someone beyond the concept of death" when the 2 things have no relation to eachother at all.