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Strongest Character for Every Tier 28

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It's basically just a Mage with the Seven-Fold Curse, Vampiric abilities, the literal ability called "Plot Device" which allows Caine to make up any ability he wants on the fly, and him having another Form of Power Null while his eye is the size of a Star.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Cain isn't over protection over just harm, otherwise any dude with mind hax or Bfr on Vertigo would beat him.
Then, someone change his resistance from "harm" to "everything" cuz his profile doesn't suggest that he's strong at all.
 
>Fate hax

Not in my World of Darkness.

>Nonexistence

  • Clap clap*, and she's conceptually obliterated.
 
Unnafected by the destruction of type 2 concepts


Also I'm going to need better reasoning than "Caine is the strongest High 4-C because he's a world of darkness character"
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Cain isn't over protection over just harm, otherwise any dude with mind hax or Bfr on Vertigo would beat him.
From what evidence I have heard off the fact that nobody mind hax's or BFR's him is probably from the fact that certain 1-A's would would squash you if you tried, not resistance.

In other words politics.
 
DontTalkDT said:
CrimsonStarFallen said:
Cain isn't over protection over just harm, otherwise any dude with mind hax or Bfr on Vertigo would beat him.
From what evidence I have heard off the fact that nobody mind hax's or BFR's him is probably from the fact that certain 1-A's would would squash you if you tried, not resistance.
In other words politics.
Why would you reward a dude for murder? Granted, eternal life is horrible, but still...
 
You do know... destroying a concept with hax isn't a clause for AP, right?

You do know that, right?

Also, I like that Ultra Instinct Dodge on that question.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Unnafected by the destruction of type 2 concepts


Also I'm going to need better reasoning than "Caine is the strongest High 4-C because he's a world of darkness character"
How about having all the powers of the mages and being above them.Said power include higher dimensional erasure,plot had and fate hax that works on type 5 acausals plus more
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
Why would you reward a dude for murder? Granted, eternal life is horrible, but still...
I don't know the character beyond what I have been told. His page explicitely says he has a contract with the Dream of the Endless and that he is under protection from The Presence, though. So they probably have their reasons.
 
Actually, no, it's not.

Affecting an 8-D being with hax, and having no AP feats besides 1 or 2 Star level feats doesn't make a person 8-D.

Matthew even spoke to me, saying that unless stated so, a person isn't 8-D until shown/stated.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Also
Why does Caine even have 8-D hax in his high 4-C when that's not explained on his profile?
What do you mean, "not explained".

You mean like how the explaination for the Quiet Deviless' Type 2 conceptual manip is actually not even Type 2?
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
You can have 8-D AP but be a 3-D being...
And no one in WoD (Besides the Abstracts) have AP on that level.

Altering Concepts in your verse doesn't make you that level of AP, otherwise Magnus is 1-A because he creates, Alters and Destroys Concepts by merely walking while in the Warp.
 
Also, I like how Zach is like: "Muh character's are being beaten, time to try and change a profile so they're not being beaten." Like, it's really funny, because he'll pull any kind of tactic to try and change a tier, like, does anyone remember how hard Zach was trying to downgrade God when she was stomping The Transcendence and how he didn't take any notice until his character was being stomped.

Notice how it's the exact same thing here?
 
Ah, sorry, it's not that they can destroy 8-D concepts...


It's that they can summon them to fight for them. Nevermind, it's just better in everyway.
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
If Cain's protection isn't fully passive, then wouldn't that be outside intervention and not allowed in a vs scenario?
There are a few more complicated things to consider on a general level.

I would agree that in this case arguing that he can not be incapacitated, without being harmed, for reasons that could very well involve getting saved by a 1-A being, is outside influence unless we have further evidence that the saving is done via a blessing or something along those lines.
 
From Cain's profile:

"Judge Gallows struck a hit on Cain, but instantly regretted it as he realized that Cain can't be harmed by anyone because of his Mark. He was swiftly killed by The Presence through different weird accidents."

This incident isn't passive retribution at all. Presence has to personally do something rather than have a blessing or something do it for him automatically.

Looks like outside intervention to me.
 
That literally just repeats the stuff I questioned. Where is it stated? I'm not asking if it was stated. The only thing I got regarding 1-A to 3D was the Ultimate Gods viewing the Great Old ones as humans.
 
Warren Valion said:
TacticalNuke002 said:
So, if The Presence's intervention in punishing the guys who mess with Cain isn't passive, then isn't it outside intervention then?
Cain's protection comes from his Mark. A blessing, which is allowed.
The mark isn't exactly a passive blessing. Its more like a warning that says "Don't mess with this guy or we 1-A Gods will give you a bad time". But they still have to directly intervene after someone messes with him.
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
From Cain's profile:
"Judge Gallows struck a hit on Cain, but instantly regretted it as he realized that Cain can't be harmed by anyone because of his Mark. He was swiftly killed by The Presence through different weird accidents."

This incident isn't passive retribution at all. Presence has to personally do something rather than have a blessing or something do it for him automatically.

Looks like outside intervention to me.
That's what the mark is, a declaration. All who strike Cain will be stricken upon seven-fold.

Attack Reflection (Cain is under the protection of God, possessing a Mark on his forehead indicating that any person who harms him will have that same harm visited upon them sevenfold. Even Lucifer Morningstar didn't dare to harm him when Dream sent him as a messenger. When the Kindly Ones laid waste to the Dreaming, even they wouldn't hurt Cain because of his curse)
 
I don't disagree with 7x Att. Reflection. The 1-As manipulating events to kill the offender is what doesn't seem passive to me. Lucifer and the Kindly Ones were just afraid of the Presence.

Also, Lucifer says in the first scan that "Whoever slayeth Cain shall have the harm visit them sevenfold". No one's slaying anyone if mindhax is used.

The second scan of the Kindly Ones shows nothing of use, frankly.

Judge Gallows struck Cain, meaning harm was done, which is covered by the Mark's clause. Also, the Presence didn't instantly kill him, it happened after a while.

There is nothing in the 7x reflection statement that shows that non-harmful methods are also punished. No one does it because they fear DotE and The Presence killing them.

So, in the few instances of the 1-As intervening, it isn't passive. So, in conclusion, I believe Cain is strongest 9-B due to outside intervention rather than passive protection and hence, should be removed and replaced with someone else.
 
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